Engineer Only Freight Trains...

[Anonymous]

Hey has anyone heard about railroads going to running trains engineer only? Eliminating the condutor and brakeman jobs. Im talking about mainline freight. I'm asking because I have the chance to become an engineer right now or just stay a conductor. I want to become an engineer somedy but I cannot right now because of child custody issues. I am worried because the guys at work keep saying that within 10 years it will be engineer only and I will be without a job.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF Engineer

Hey has anyone heard about railroads going to running trains engineer only? Eliminating the condutor and brakeman jobs. Im talking about mainline freight. I'm asking because I have the chance to become an engineer right now or just stay a conductor. I want to become an engineer somedy but I cannot right now because of child custody issues. I am worried because the guys at work keep saying that within 10 years it will be engineer only and I will be without a job.

[Anonymous]

I am a engineer with the Union Pacific, I hired out with the Southern Pacific in 1971 and over the years I have seen jobs become abolished, train yards turn into habitate for jack rabbits'.and the most terrifying, which some people might disagree, are the RCL"s(remote control locomotives) that caused me to chase my seniority around like I just hired out.....If you want to become a "hoghead"go for it but don't give up your date as a conductor at least you have that to fall back on.As far as the technology to operate with just a engineer, they jammed RCL down are throats it wouldn't surprise me to see your worst fears realized.......but you can always hire out with the UP.......NOT [:D]..............

[Anonymous]

I have recently taken an retirement package from Queensland government railways in Australia because of technology taking most of the jobs that were done manualy. Ninety Five percent of the trains are engineer (we call them driver) only. There has not a brakeman on Queensalnd trains for about ten years. Brakevans are a distant memory. The only exception is the big coal trains that have two drivers and that is only to give one or the other a break they work twelve hour shifts.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Indiana Rail Road has some freight trains that run engineer only. There is also a coal hauler (non-common carrier) in Arizona that operates the same way and the operation includes some trackage rights on BNSF.

[Anonymous]

OK SO IF THEY BECOME ENGINEER ONLY TRAINS, DOES THAT MEAN THIS PERSON GETS TO WALK THE 2 MILES TO THE REAR OF AN INTERMODUAL TRAIN AFTER THE TRAIN GOES INTO EMERGENCY? THEN 2 MILES BACK TO THE CAB. THEN LUG THE KNUCKLE, AIR HOSE OR OTHER PART BACK, MAKE THE REPAIR, THEN GO BACK UP TO THE CAB, BACK THE TRAIN TO COUPLE IT, THEN WALK BACK, HOOK THE AIR UP, THEN GO BACK TO THE CAB AND HOPE LIKE HELL THAT IT STAYS TOGETHER. ABOUT THE TIME HE GETS THE AIR BUILT UP HE WILL OUTLAW AND WAIT FOR THE RELEIF MAN TO SHOW UP, ALL THE WHILE BLOCKING THE MAINLINE. THERE IS NO SENSE TO IT! SO I AM SURE SOME BOOZO IN THE BOARD WILL COME UP WITH THIS GREAT IDEA TO MAKE A BETTER BOTTOM LINE. OH YAH FOR THE RECORD, I DO NOT WORK FOR ANY RR. BUT I STILL DO HAVE THAT THING CALLED COMMON SENSE AND THIS IDEA DOES NOT.

[trainfan1221]

I personally think something as large and complex as a freight train should NEVER be operated by one person, especially for long distances. Lets try thinking with our heads and not our wallets.

[ironhorseman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TOOLEY

OK SO IF THEY BECOME ENGINEER ONLY TRAINS, DOES THAT MEAN THIS PERSON GETS TO WALK THE 2 MILES TO THE REAR OF AN INTERMODUAL TRAIN AFTER THE TRAIN GOES INTO EMERGENCY? THEN 2 MILES BACK TO THE CAB. THEN LUG THE KNUCKLE, AIR HOSE OR OTHER PART BACK, MAKE THE REPAIR, THEN GO BACK UP TO THE CAB, BACK THE TRAIN TO COUPLE IT, THEN WALK BACK, HOOK THE AIR UP, THEN GO BACK TO THE CAB AND HOPE LIKE HELL THAT IT STAYS TOGETHER. ABOUT THE TIME HE GETS THE AIR BUILT UP HE WILL OUTLAW AND WAIT FOR THE RELEIF MAN TO SHOW UP, ALL THE WHILE BLOCKING THE MAINLINE. THERE IS NO SENSE TO IT! SO I AM SURE SOME BOOZO IN THE BOARD WILL COME UP WITH THIS GREAT IDEA TO MAKE A BETTER BOTTOM LINE. OH YAH FOR THE RECORD, I DO NOT WORK FOR ANY RR. BUT I STILL DO HAVE THAT THING CALLED COMMON SENSE AND THIS IDEA DOES NOT.

QUOTE: by trainfan1221

I personally think something as large and complex as a freight train should NEVER be operated by one person, especially for long distances. Lets try thinking with our heads and not our wallets.

AMEN TO THAT. I never worked for the railroad but this makes more sence to me than no man trains. You wouldn't fly a plane with out a co-pilot. Trains aren't like semi-trucks. As for the Austailia trains, it depends on the circumstances. I don't know what they're like. But American trains from east to west coast, Canada to Mexico, are too big to manage all by one's self, unless you want robots to do all the work.

[Sterling1]

Hey I don't Work for a RR, but if we were to have just one engineer and something happened, then what? It may be cheaper to have one man in the cab, but if that one person turned out to be a terrorist, that wouldn't be too good, eh? Factor in common sense, and it's always worth another man in the cab for safety issues.[}:)][xx(][:0][V][|)]

[Big_Boy_4005]

I don't work for a railroad either, but it sounds like a bogus rumor to me. Stupid as they may be, the government won't let the railroads have their way on this one. And I agree with the others that the railroads would be stupid to try. What's next for them to cut costs, stop hauling freight? Beside, the unions won't let this go down without a fight. I think you're safe for a long time. Run some of the comments from the folks here by the guys who have been telling you that stuff, and I'll bet they shut up.

[Anonymous]

Pesonally I don't think that in our century there will be one engineer trains expect maybe on Passenger Trains also with the Wisconsin Central Wreck in Wisconsin in 1996 and then they had to stop using 1 engineer on trains

[UPTRAIN]

I work for UP (26 years) I agree with the post of walking 12 miles!!! DAMN I'm 43 years old......If I did that I would either have break-proof hoses and knuckles or quit and start running marathons with all that good ole fitness!!! It's not yet time now (or ever) to have only one guy.....I need a co-pilot!!! How the hell am I supposed to do paper-work, blow the horn, operate the controls, watch out for stupid people (a.k.a. foamers [JOKE] ), and look for signals (good lord I got kids)!?!?!?! There's no way in hell that could happen.....I agree with it being a rumor...and NO MAN TRAINS how many people have already gotton killed by those damn things, their death-traps, I hate em........BNSF engineer your safe now.

[Anonymous]

Here in Germany a Engineer only freight train is absolute normal. And in the most other states in Europe too.
[:-^][tup]

In every engine is a system called SIFA. The engineer must push a pedal or a knob at every time when the train is rolling, with and without power, and he must lift this each 20 to 30 seconds. When he will not do so, there is first an alarm and when than is no reaction after 5 seconds the train come to an automatic emergency stop!

We run 300 km/h highspeed ICE with only one engineer! And do this with the highest security for the passengers I think! But this speed they make only a lines with only ICE´s on it, no freight, no commuters, 100% ICE. By the way, I live only 1 kilometer away from the highspeedline from Frankfurt to Cologne.

I had the luck to made some cabrides with different ICE trains! My last cabride was with an ICE1 from Frankfurt to Hamburg at January 1.

Until, I think between 1980 and 1985, a train that run more than 160 km/h must have a second man in front. But with the changes in computer systems that was canceled. The last time that a second man was offical in the cabs was from 1991 to 1992. The first year that we run 250 km/h ICE´s at the new built highspeedlines and the first year of the second generation of LZB!

All German +160 km/h lines are today under the so called LZB-control.

LZB is a computersystem that knows exact the position of a train at every moment. And it works well !!! The development began in the mid 60´s! Near 40 years ago! The LZB terminals are today three separate computers, each do the same and each controll the two others.

When you see a photo of a german highspeedline look between the rails: a black cable - about one inch thick. This is the transmitter and the antenna is under the train.
When a train run under LZB signals are normally black!
There is a display in front of the engineer that shows him the actual status of the line for the next 13.000 meters (about 40.000 feet) to the front! And signals the speed he must have in a distance when there will come a reduction.
When there is a halt, at the display the distance to that point will be count down exact in meters, first in steps and the last 500m each meter: When the train comes to halt 5 meter before the "point zero" the display show "5"!

Under LZB the computer "create" an virtual electronic block to each train with a safety distance to the front and to the rear, the trains will run with a minimum distance and maximum security. When two run in minimum distance and the first come to a emergency stop, the second will stop too.

And LZB can run a train automatic! There is a position in the speed trottle, named AFB automatic driving and breaking control. Under this, the computer do the complete engineer job! The engineer is than only a controller, he can agree and disagree.
The only thing that an engineer do better is the smooth stop at the platform in a station. And so he control this stops.

I think the LZB is the only system that control a train at every time. In the future a european system will be similar, this will work via satellite like GPS.

The French system (for the TGV), and the others, are similar and different at the same: They control a traiun only at stationary places, so they need real blocks.

The AVE in Spain is courious: Spain use French TGV´s with the German LZB!!!

But: Because of this huge number of computers in a train and in the line, an engineer can not make a repair. This is the main problem in modern railsystems: to many computer specialists create the engines !!!

The result is that the computers had replaced the second man!

But there is a big argument for the second man!

In Germany, the engineers, we say Lokomotivführer, make trips without a stop of 4 hours maximum! 4 hours alone in the cab is hard!!!
And it´s harder when he must go to restroom while driving! We have no toilets in our engines, so he must wait until the next stop, and this can be more than one hour! And this can become a physical stress! There he must leave the engine and go into the train (the long distance trains have closed toilet systems that can be used every time, also in stations).
And most of the stops with an ICE are only two minutes. And this fact is the best argument for the second man in Germany: He can run the train when the engineer is at the toilet!

In the USA, so I think from the distance, is exact the distance the problem.
A two man crew can run a freight train for eight hours without a stop, they can change the seats while running the train. With a two man crew, air condition, a refrigerator and a toilet this trip is very comfortable and will bring not much physical stress to the crew when everything is okay.

What will happen when an engineer become ill when he drive the train through the deserts of Utah, Nevada or Califonia? The next town with help is 40 miles away and the next roadcrossing or dirtroad 10 miles. There the second man is, so I think, a must!
At the East is more population, the cities are near together and when something happens help will be at the train much quicker.

At our ICE lines are diesel engines as emergency-engines based at some stations. they are manned the whole day. And they need them only one time a week. (At the line Frankfurt cologne run at the moment 8 ICE in one hour from 6am to 11pm). The railroad have a plan that in the future this engines will be stored and the engineer - he must have the ICE licence too - will be bring by a helicopter when they need him!

[Anonymous]

I agree with everyone who said that engineer only trains are a bad idea. Not only is Tooley right on about making repairs but I also think there is too much information that needs to be managed for someone to do it who also has to drive the train.

[Anonymous]

Couldn't agree with you more.

Engineer onyl Freight Trains, are beyond Dangerous. Let's say the Engineer dies in the back end of the middle of nowhere.. Then what? The train stops.. you know how long ti would take help to get to him?

Trains should be run by at least 2 people, not by one, and Not by a robot/remote control.

[gemperfilm]

I am not a rr employee, but grew up in a railroad town and now leave within 1/2 mile of a busy CSX mainline. The thought of one man trains scares the hell out of me. What if the engineer has a medical condition? I pity the poor engineer who has to run a train in run 8 up a long grade with no one to talk to. Yeesh.

As for the European one man trains. They are two different worlds. Trains in Europe are short. They have better right of ways with minimal grade crossings since they were practically all rebuilt after WW2. The stockholders in the American Railroaders would not stand for the outlay of capital needed to implement a European style system. Would you trust the railroad to put in a good quality computer technology? If you need proof, just listen to your scanner some day and you may hear a disgruntled engineer talking to the mechanical department because the computer just went down on his brand new 2 million dollar locomotive and he can't get out of the yard.

[Anonymous]

Tooley!! Hear HEAR!! Ill be damned if that poor hogger dies on the law while sorting the problem at the back of the train.

That post of your Tooley is probably the best! In the interest of safety I hope railroads continue to run full crews. These trains aint semi trucks. And frankly semi trucks can use 2 people to keep up with draconian freight deadlines set without regard to safety or ability to travel the actual distance dock to dock oops there I go again....
[soapbox] sorry about that. I still have feelings left over from 15 years.

Best of luck to you all.

Lee

[Anonymous]

I am a former NS employee. In 2001, about 2 weeks before Thanksgiving, me and seven other conductors were furloughed. I was called back to duty in April of 2002 and told by the trainmaster that it was very likely that I would be furloughed again in the fall. When he told me that, I went home and packed up my rule books, tools, etc. and turned them in the next day. I no longer have to put up with the absolute imbeciles that are in charge of running our nations railroads. One man crews indeed!

[Anonymous]

Those of you who are saying that this will never happen in N America are not reading the posts very carefully. It will work because it is working in other countries. There are posts about the operations, engineer only, right now as we speak (err, type) in Germany and Australia. Of the two, Australia is the more important.
They use the same type of equipment.
They have very similar operations.
They have very similar size trains.
They operate through terrain that is very similar to the western US.

I'm not saying its a good or bad idea or that I agree or disagree with it.

I am saying that in N America, it's not a matter of "if", its a matter of "when".

Smith.

[Anonymous]

I agree with everyone that you can not mix Europe and America.
The trains in Australia are more similar to the USA than that in Europe. Okay!

And I agree also, wrote this also in my long first reply that I think that such ideas are not good for trains that will run through deserts!

But I will only bring one aspect into front: We run engineer only trains at lines with 10 and more trains in one hour! The reason for engineer only trains is that there are so much safety systems in the train and at the line.

In Europe the grade crossings are not rebuilt after WW2! Thats our mainproblem! We must run our trains also at the old lines, built before 1900, with many curves and so.
After WW2 many of our mainlines were destroyed! But we need the railroads, so we must rebuilt the old lines.

Okay we had rebuilt some lines in the 70´s and 80´s! Also we had built some new lines (passenger only) in the 80´s and 90´s but that isn´t as much as many think!
[^] [bow] [#ditto]