What Does This Sign Mean?

[Midwest Northern R.R]

Hi Y'all,

I have a 4x6ft HO scale model train at home, and it would help alot if I knew what the heck this sign means.

(If it doesn't appear, then I don't know how to post images)

It is basically a small triangle with a black dot in the middle.

I use it to indicate a crossing is near, that it's time to sound the horn.

Thanks In Advance!

[gmpullman]

Hi,

It may signify different things on other railroads but I have seen this sign used on the Pennsylvania Railroad as a "Flanger" sign. 

A flanger was used in conjunction with a snow plow. It had two blades that would clear ice and snow from the inside, flange area, of the rails. The flanger blades would have to be raised at switches or other obstructions, thus the sign to alert the operator.

Good Luck, Ed

[Midwest Northern R.R]

gmpullman

Hi,

I have seen this sign used on the Pennsylvania Railroad as a "Flanger" sign. 

 

This sign would have to be mobile and instantly removable in your case of a flanger.

This helps, in the fact that I would use it to indicate,"Rotary snow plow is ahead, proceed with caution", if this still works. 

Thank you much, Liam

[cv_acr]

Midwest Northern R.R

This sign would have to be mobile and instantly removable in your case of a flanger.

I don't think you understand his meaning...

A snow plow or flanger has blades that are lowered between the rails to clear out snow and ice. If this were to hit obstructions between the rails (crossing timbers, switch point rails, bridge guard rails, etc.) there would be serious damage caused.

The flanger signs are placed at a certain distance ahead of these fixed points to warn the plow/flanger operator to lift the blades so they don't impact on the obstructions.

It doesn't warn other people that a plow or flanger is in the area....

[rcdrye]

A lot of eastern railroads used a single "flag" blade pointing 45 degrees up to indicate "lift", a double blade of the same type meant "OK to drop".

[rdamon]

repasting image

 

 

Not train related, but ...

https://resetservicelight.com/red-triangle-with-a-black-dot-new-traffic-sign/

[Midwest Northern R.R]

Ok, allow me to sum this up,

Of what I've read this sign is used to signal a geological marker, but I'm using it to signal crossing ahead on the tracks.

This has really helped alot guys, Thank you much!! :)

I would've thought that It's weird to have two types of signs for indicating crossing ahead, using this one and a Whistle point sign.

[Overmod]

Midwest Northern R.R

Of what I've read this sign is used to signal a geological marker, but I'm using it to signal crossing ahead on the tracks.

I have never seen the triangle sign used for a crossing except where, for some concern in the crossing's geometry or construction, a flanger would have to lift blades or some other equipment concern would have to be observed.  It is NOT a replacement for the W whistle posts and doesn't convey the same meaning at all.

It might be interesting for someone who has (or knows where to hot-link) images of the markers steam railroads with track pans used to indicate both 'scoop-up' near the physical end of the pan and where, on a double-headed consist, the lead locomotive should lift its scoop so the second one could take water.

[Flintlock76]

deleted   

[Flintlock76]

I know there was signage of some sort telling crews of locomotives with track pan scoops when to drop and when to retract, but I'll be dipped if I can find any pictorial examples of the same.

The closest I've come is this article by the New York Central Historical Society that shows track pan limit lights, purple in color, on New York Central pans.

Here's the link, photo on page ten.

https://nycshs.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/waterscoops.pdf   

Mind you, this is for the NYC, I don't know what everyone else did.

[Miningman]

Really good information Wayne. Great post! I'm saving this one.

Did not know that without the overflow vents the pressure could split the tender wall open. 

Must have been quite the sight to see this procedure in person. Also for the engineer and fireman to pull it off successfully at high speed. 

[Flintlock76]

Vince, a few years back I read a "first-person" article in "Classic Trains" where the author told the story of a cab ride on a NYC locomotive, he was a teenage railfan at the time and his father arranged it.

Anyway, he was enjoying the ride and soon the locomotive was coming up to a track pan.  The fireman gently pulled him into the center of the cab and then positioned himself by the scoop control.  The engineer yelled "Down!", the fireman dropped the scoop, and then our young rider found out why he was moved to the cab center.  During the scooping process he said the whole cab shook like an earthquake and the roar was incredible!  

The spray of water was incredible as well.

[Overmod]

Miningman

Did not know that without the overflow vents the pressure could split the tender wall open. 

Not so much the air pressure itself as the hydrostatic shock (think 'water hammer on steroids) of the flow directed by the confined air in the tank.  Interesting flow control in the 80mph PT arrangement, and probably even better still in the planned 44ton arrangement.  

I was amused to see Lionel getting extra 'play value' out of its latest grossly-overpriced 'toy' engine by simulating this system with fans and smoke generators.  Apparently it is not very convincing if you've seen the real thing!

[Flintlock76]

Those high-end O gauge scale Lionels and MTH's, among others, ain't exactly toys, not with those price tags.  Not toys for children at any rate. 

I sure can't afford 'em, and even if I could I'm not sure I could bring myself to spend the money.  Obviously there's a market for them though. 

I've been pursuing post-war Lionels myself, they've gotten very reasonable in the past few years and they're easy to repair once you know how to do it.  

[gmpullman]

 

Midwest Northern R.R

This sign would have to be mobile and instantly removable in your case of a flanger. This helps, in the fact that I would use it to indicate,"Rotary snow plow is ahead, proceed with caution", if this still works. 

 

No mention on the print says the sign is intended to be instantly removable.

 

PRR_Flanger_78460-A by Edmund, on Flickr

   [CLICK to make larger]

Thank You, Ed

[samfp1943]

cv_acr

Midwest Northern R.R

This sign would have to be mobile and instantly removable in your case of a flanger.

I don't think you understand his meaning...

A snow plow or flanger has blades that are lowered between the rails to clear out snow and ice. If this were to hit obstructions between the rails (crossing timbers, switch point rails, bridge guard rails, etc.) there would be serious damage caused.

The flanger signs are placed at a certain distance ahead of these fixed points to warn the plow/flanger operator to lift the blades so they don't impact on the obstructions.

It doesn't warn other people that a plow or flanger is in the area....

I realize that this 'discussion' is in reference to a specific sign re: FLANGER...but it also seem to creep over into:

what specifically is a Flanger(?) and how does it work?

not to mention WHY the sign is used(?)

A relevant reference msy br this following linked Thread{FORUM /2004]on Flanger(s)

linked @ http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/10607.aspx

and her froma RailPictures.net site is what happens when someone ignores one of those 'Flanger' signs!

linked @ https://www.railpictures.net/photo/63632/

 

[gmpullman]

Well, it has pretty much been explained.

cv_acr

A snow plow or flanger has blades that are lowered between the rails to clear out snow and ice. If this were to hit obstructions between the rails (crossing timbers, switch point rails, bridge guard rails, etc.) there would be serious damage caused. The flanger signs are placed at a certain distance ahead of these fixed points to warn the plow/flanger operator to lift the blades so they don't impact on the obstructions.

Here is a drawing of a snow plow truck with flanger and ice cutter blades showing. Since the flanger protrudes below the rail head it may snag on frogs and points of rails.

Flanger by Edmund, on Flickr

And a close-up view of the ice cutters:

Flanger_crop-1 by Edmund, on Flickr

A distinctive and easily recognized sign is placed for the operator to take heed and raise the blade before the blade causes damage or contributes to a derailment. The print says sign shall be placed forty to fifty feet before the point of obstruction.

Some designs of flanger blades incorporate shear bolts to allow the blade to swing clear of the obstruction but if ice or hard packed snow is in the machinery this may not be enough.

Regards, Ed