Challenged Mookie

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

Ask an ex Milwaukee Road employee or railfan their opinion of BN (warning--stand at least an arms reach from them). I have read comments from some of them. Many claim BN did play dirty tricks to topple M R. I really don't know other than what I have seen written and heard spoken. Maybe Ed could shed some light on this one.
If so great, and if not, well that is ok too. This one may be too far out and away from his playpark for him to want to play.

Oh, my, oh my! When the BN merger was OKed, one of the provisions was that the MILW would get overhead rights between their end-of-service location at Columbia Jct (Longview, WA) and Brooklyn Yard (SP terminal in Portland, OR). The SP provided terminal services in Portland. I can remember doing overtime as a crew driver to deadhead patch crews between Portland and Col Jct.. It would often take 3 crews to move a MILW train those 40 miles -- that was in 16 hour days -- sometimes taking 40 hours. Finally the ICC stepped in and forced the BN and UP (which jointly owned the tracks in question) to move the MILW trains in a timely manner. Just like the STB "encouraged" the solution of the Chemical Coast melt down that Ed was talking about.

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

Ask an ex Milwaukee Road employee or railfan their opinion of BN (warning--stand at least an arms reach from them). I have read comments from some of them. Many claim BN did play dirty tricks to topple M R. I really don't know other than what I have seen written and heard spoken. Maybe Ed could shed some light on this one.
If so great, and if not, well that is ok too. This one may be too far out and away from his playpark for him to want to play.

Oh, my, oh my! When the BN merger was OKed, one of the provisions was that the MILW would get overhead rights between their end-of-service location at Columbia Jct (Longview, WA) and Brooklyn Yard (SP terminal in Portland, OR). The SP provided terminal services in Portland. I can remember doing overtime as a crew driver to deadhead patch crews between Portland and Col Jct.. It would often take 3 crews to move a MILW train those 40 miles -- that was in 16 hour days -- sometimes taking 40 hours. Finally the ICC stepped in and forced the BN and UP (which jointly owned the tracks in question) to move the MILW trains in a timely manner. Just like the STB "encouraged" the solution of the Chemical Coast melt down that Ed was talking about.

[Mookie]

That is interesting. The Big Guys weren't above a little dirty fighting! Restores my faith in humanity - the acted just like two little boys on the playground.

I know how competitive everything is in all phases of business, so was just kind of wondering how they resolved it so there wouldn't be constant sabotage on both sides. Sounds like a pretty good solution to me. And I would imagine that if there was any local not wanting to play fair, that would stand out like a sore thumb and call attention from the higher ups to that area!

Interesting. . .

Jen

[Mookie]

That is interesting. The Big Guys weren't above a little dirty fighting! Restores my faith in humanity - the acted just like two little boys on the playground.

I know how competitive everything is in all phases of business, so was just kind of wondering how they resolved it so there wouldn't be constant sabotage on both sides. Sounds like a pretty good solution to me. And I would imagine that if there was any local not wanting to play fair, that would stand out like a sore thumb and call attention from the higher ups to that area!

Interesting. . .

Jen

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

One last one - this is a little tougher. [?]

I read the article about UPS going to UP. Then I read that most of UP's route west of KC is single track - while BNSF is multiple track. AND....UP has trackage rights over BNSF between KC and Chicago as a result of a grant to SP, on condition of BNSF merger, and SP was bought by UP. Are you still with me?

So....being a conspiracy buff to an extent - does BNSF have to be really nice to UP and not "mess" with trackage rights - under the table, of course. Behind the scenes type of thing. Am I just reading too much Tom Clancy?

I know in business how power struggles go on each day! Even here on a very small scale. Well, I think you all know where I am on this one. Any opinions out there? Ed, this should get you back on your puter!

Jen

Ask an ex Milwaukee Road employee or railfan their opinion of BN (warning--stand at least an arms reach from them). I have read comments from some of them. Many claim BN did play dirty tricks to topple M R. I really don't know other than what I have seen written and heard spoken. Maybe Ed could shed some light on this one.
If so great, and if not, well that is ok too. This one may be too far out and away from his playpark for him to want to play.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

One last one - this is a little tougher. [?]

I read the article about UPS going to UP. Then I read that most of UP's route west of KC is single track - while BNSF is multiple track. AND....UP has trackage rights over BNSF between KC and Chicago as a result of a grant to SP, on condition of BNSF merger, and SP was bought by UP. Are you still with me?

So....being a conspiracy buff to an extent - does BNSF have to be really nice to UP and not "mess" with trackage rights - under the table, of course. Behind the scenes type of thing. Am I just reading too much Tom Clancy?

I know in business how power struggles go on each day! Even here on a very small scale. Well, I think you all know where I am on this one. Any opinions out there? Ed, this should get you back on your puter!

Jen

Ask an ex Milwaukee Road employee or railfan their opinion of BN (warning--stand at least an arms reach from them). I have read comments from some of them. Many claim BN did play dirty tricks to topple M R. I really don't know other than what I have seen written and heard spoken. Maybe Ed could shed some light on this one.
If so great, and if not, well that is ok too. This one may be too far out and away from his playpark for him to want to play.

[edblysard]

Hi Jenny,
It may be easier to explain by giving a example of how they do things down here.
After the SP/UP meltdown, nothing, and I mean nothing moved in Houston for a few days.
Both BNSF and UP had trains jammed into every available sideing and spur they could find.
BN was stabbing every moving UP train they could, and UP was returning the favor, with a vengence.
One day, and I swear this is true, only about ten trains made it into the inner "loop" of Houston.
Almost all of the major yards, both BN and UP, are within this loop.
So they had managed to screw each other up so well, they both ended up with none of their trains moving.
Solution?
They agreed that the solution to the major part of the mess was to cooperate, they had little choice.

Together, the formed the Spring Dispatcher, known to the train crews as TD Spring, (Train dispatch Spring) to handle all of the dispatching in the major Houston/Harris county area.

Staffed by both BN and UP dispatchers, when you talk to them, if you dont know them personally, you could be speaking to a BN dispatcher, who is routing UP trains, and vice versa. They have only one mandate, to keep trains moving, regardless of whos train it is.
They handle 10 major yards, and several smaller yards, along with all the main line into and out of Houston.

It works, better than you would have guessed.

No longer do you have to wait while this division super talks to their division super to run a BN over UP, or vice versa.
The dispatchers are all housed in the same building, working on the same system side by side with each other.
If the need arises for one railroad to use the tracks of the other, they dont even have to phone each other, they just do it.

Jump to the UPS train on BN tracks.

If BN stabbs this train, UPS will howl.
Shippers will complain.
BNSF and UP know they are the only two major players this side of the mississippi, they own the west.
BN will keep the UPS train moving for two big reasons.
One, they may try to get the business back, and if they stab the UP trains, UP will return the favor, and they dont want UPS mad at them.
Two, they may want the same amount of co operation from UP at some time in the future, say with a joint NS/BNSF intermodel train, or some other "hot "train.
Lastly, depending on what rights UP is operating over BNSF track with, if they do stab it, UP will go to the Surfboard to complain.
The fact is, these two have figured it out, there is enough business this side of the big muddy to keep them both in the black, as long as they dont cross each other, they both win.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[edblysard]

Hi Jenny,
It may be easier to explain by giving a example of how they do things down here.
After the SP/UP meltdown, nothing, and I mean nothing moved in Houston for a few days.
Both BNSF and UP had trains jammed into every available sideing and spur they could find.
BN was stabbing every moving UP train they could, and UP was returning the favor, with a vengence.
One day, and I swear this is true, only about ten trains made it into the inner "loop" of Houston.
Almost all of the major yards, both BN and UP, are within this loop.
So they had managed to screw each other up so well, they both ended up with none of their trains moving.
Solution?
They agreed that the solution to the major part of the mess was to cooperate, they had little choice.

Together, the formed the Spring Dispatcher, known to the train crews as TD Spring, (Train dispatch Spring) to handle all of the dispatching in the major Houston/Harris county area.

Staffed by both BN and UP dispatchers, when you talk to them, if you dont know them personally, you could be speaking to a BN dispatcher, who is routing UP trains, and vice versa. They have only one mandate, to keep trains moving, regardless of whos train it is.
They handle 10 major yards, and several smaller yards, along with all the main line into and out of Houston.

It works, better than you would have guessed.

No longer do you have to wait while this division super talks to their division super to run a BN over UP, or vice versa.
The dispatchers are all housed in the same building, working on the same system side by side with each other.
If the need arises for one railroad to use the tracks of the other, they dont even have to phone each other, they just do it.

Jump to the UPS train on BN tracks.

If BN stabbs this train, UPS will howl.
Shippers will complain.
BNSF and UP know they are the only two major players this side of the mississippi, they own the west.
BN will keep the UPS train moving for two big reasons.
One, they may try to get the business back, and if they stab the UP trains, UP will return the favor, and they dont want UPS mad at them.
Two, they may want the same amount of co operation from UP at some time in the future, say with a joint NS/BNSF intermodel train, or some other "hot "train.
Lastly, depending on what rights UP is operating over BNSF track with, if they do stab it, UP will go to the Surfboard to complain.
The fact is, these two have figured it out, there is enough business this side of the big muddy to keep them both in the black, as long as they dont cross each other, they both win.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[kenneo]

If they are overhead rights, about the only weapon either road has against the other is the siding - stick your leasors train in the hole and leave it there. The MP did this to the DRGW when the UP bought the MP, and the DRGW lost its traffic base between the Royal Gorge and KC. There is much more to that story, but that was one of the issues. You see the same thing happening with AMTK and its schedule keeping abilities. This ploy doesn't work very well anymore because each road has so many rights over the other, and tit-for-tat, y'no?

[kenneo]

If they are overhead rights, about the only weapon either road has against the other is the siding - stick your leasors train in the hole and leave it there. The MP did this to the DRGW when the UP bought the MP, and the DRGW lost its traffic base between the Royal Gorge and KC. There is much more to that story, but that was one of the issues. You see the same thing happening with AMTK and its schedule keeping abilities. This ploy doesn't work very well anymore because each road has so many rights over the other, and tit-for-tat, y'no?

[Mookie]

One last one - this is a little tougher. [?]

I read the article about UPS going to UP. Then I read that most of UP's route west of KC is single track - while BNSF is multiple track. AND....UP has trackage rights over BNSF between KC and Chicago as a result of a grant to SP, on condition of BNSF merger, and SP was bought by UP. Are you still with me?

So....being a conspiracy buff to an extent - does BNSF have to be really nice to UP and not "mess" with trackage rights - under the table, of course. Behind the scenes type of thing. Am I just reading too much Tom Clancy?

I know in business how power struggles go on each day! Even here on a very small scale. Well, I think you all know where I am on this one. Any opinions out there? Ed, this should get you back on your puter!

Jen

[Mookie]

One last one - this is a little tougher. [?]

I read the article about UPS going to UP. Then I read that most of UP's route west of KC is single track - while BNSF is multiple track. AND....UP has trackage rights over BNSF between KC and Chicago as a result of a grant to SP, on condition of BNSF merger, and SP was bought by UP. Are you still with me?

So....being a conspiracy buff to an extent - does BNSF have to be really nice to UP and not "mess" with trackage rights - under the table, of course. Behind the scenes type of thing. Am I just reading too much Tom Clancy?

I know in business how power struggles go on each day! Even here on a very small scale. Well, I think you all know where I am on this one. Any opinions out there? Ed, this should get you back on your puter!

Jen