Bird's eye view of Rockville Bridge near Harrisburg Pa....

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:47 PM
Modelcar

I got your mail.

Thanks, Had I known what photo you were sending and that I already saw it, I would have not asked but I appreciate the sending of that photo from the William Shanks book, Vanderbilt's Folly. Of course it seems to have been in the Walton book as well. I have my own color shot of that view as well. I will be replacing it when I get back to Harrisburg this June. As I said earlier I am replacing all my shots with a 6.1 mega pixal camera from my Kodak camera.

Thanks a lot anyway once more.

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:54 PM
dwil89

Send me your e-mail and I will send the larger view of it. But the Rockville Bridge is indeed there. The large view is where you see it best. A section of it is just to the right of the second largest set of tree brances on the left side of the photo. Remember this is panaramic shot, not actual scale.

Tracking the William Henry Vanderbilt South Pennsylvania Railroad right of way along the Historic Pennsylvania Turnpike.

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:31 PM
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/spennrr18811885/kimberlyrunhill.jpg

Here is a South Penn shot looking north from Highway 31 in Somerset County just east at the 115.0 mile post along the Pennsylvania Turnpike. Look above the truck for the tall railroad grade.



What a rail fan shot that would be don't you think?

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:47 PM
It's tough to see, Dave, but you can just
make out the Rockville Bridge.

Dave

QUOTE: Originally posted by dwil89

QUOTE: Originally posted by southpennrailroad

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/spennrr18811885/panharrisburg.jpg

Here is a panaramic view of Harrisburg Circa 1906 and shows everythng from the Rockville bridge (left side of photo) to the Reading Bridge to the right. Look close at the base of the Reading for all the piers that are gone today. The ones still standing in the river today are not in this photo, they are outside the photo.


You describe the Rockville Bridge as being the one of the left in the pic....yet the pic appears to be in downtown Harrisburg....The Rockville Bridge should be further North, away from downtown I would think...
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Posted by Modelcar on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:01 PM
Russ.....10-4, you are welcome for photo.....Boy your last photo posted at location Rt. 31, Somerset is my home stomping grounds. Currently, there should be some power producing wind mills near by and behind the camera up on the rise. I know right where you are for that shot. Right west of that location we find a bunch of cuts and fills near the State Hospital and then a little farther along {west}, it crosses highway 281 with a massive cut on the east side of the road and then a large fill on west side of the road....with a stone and brick tunnel to allow the S&C branch of CSX {formally B&O}, to run under it as it's route heads to Johnstown. Then the SP swings around to the left and crosses Rt. 985 and starts it's way to head towards climbing Laurel Hill....I'm sure you must have tramped over most of the above I mention....Quite a bit of the ROW can be seen in that area....

Quentin

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Posted by Modelcar on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:04 PM
....Must head for the TV....Our Pacer's are ready to start the 2nd game of their NBA playoffs....

Quentin

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:04 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by dwil89

A couple of us decided to hike up to a scenic overlook of the NS Rockville Bridge on Easter Sunday. The result is shown here: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=141429


Great Shot [:D]
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Posted by southpennrailroad on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:07 PM
Glad to bring memories upon you. I love this area as well. A new Walmart is now along the South pen norht of Somerset. That main highway traveling north out of Somerset to Jennerstown is now 601. Have you walked all of the right of ways exploring it? Or just looked at it from afar.

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:19 PM
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/spennrr18811885/daklemanbA.jpg



By the way the dirt crossing the center of the photo is the South Penn grade curving south to circle the hill located behind the photographer. The turnpike got rid of this grade and went right through where the photographer is standing.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/spennrr18811885/allgtunnelw.jpg



A rare photo of the west portal of the Allegeny Mountain Tunnel. Only the tunnel you see is actually the South Pennsylvania rairload tunnel being preped for a wall cover up. The railroad tunnel is still there but hidden behind this wall seen in the photo on the bottom . The wall in the modern photo seen on the north or west bound turnpike tunnel built by the turnpike is where the railroad tunnel is still located hidden from prying travelers eyes. However, the east portal is completly open. By the way it is a $375.00 fine for being in these areas. I just had to let you know.

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:31 PM
HEY!

If your not interested in this Please let me know so that I can do other things but of course if this is interesting or maybe you think it should be placed some where else also please let me know.

I never did want to hijack this thread. I just figured the South Penn was supose to be in the Rockville Bridge area and figured intrest was good so I just went on.

Thanks

Russ

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Posted by dwil89 on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:39 PM
I mentioned yesterday that it was fine to add this information to the thread....
David J. Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown
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Posted by southpennrailroad on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:47 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by dwil89

I mentioned yesterday that it was fine to add this information to the thread....


Thanks!

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 8:02 PM
This is interesting article Read it close

Amazingly your looking across the road from your house at the useless piece of property saying to yourself just how much an isore it was to you. Then the turnpike comes along and then says you are the real owner and that you will be given so much for it so that they could build the turnpike on it. because it was originally the South Penn grade.

Then there is the farmer who thinks they owned it and were told they have to give it up because it wasn't theirs anyway. Maybe they were payng taxes on it all those years. HUMMMM!

Even to this day sections of property are made useless due to the turnpike cutting off farmers from getting to the field across the turnpike from thir farm buildings. I know of many a sites like this in my research. One located just to the east of the 819 highway crossing in Westmoreland County at the mile post 79.0.

The right of way of the South Penn is really interesting and has been for years.



http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/spennrr18811885/trpkrightofway.jpg

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Posted by Modelcar on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 8:25 PM
Russ...I have been on the ground at some of the places in the Somerset area. Understand the west face of Allegheny does hide the original RR tunnel over north of original Turnpike tunnel. Dave, if you want this part of post to stop just give us a shout.....and Russ it's all interesting to me...How about other fans...

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Posted by dwil89 on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:23 PM
No, keep posting away...it'a all interesting, and never would have come to light here if the topic of the Rockville Bridge was not brought up to begin with.....I am learning alot more about the South Penn Railroad and its significance to the construction of the PA Turnpike.
David J. Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown
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Posted by southpennrailroad on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:35 PM


For the past several years I have visited the State Archives to get what ever I can on the subject of the South Penn. This shot shows one of the largest South Penn survey maps that I now own on CD and is not completly opened for viewing. This one is actually a thirty six mile secton of a surveyed but rejected South Penn route showing the houses, farms, road crossings and countour lines as well as creek crossings from California, Pa to Majorsville, Pa on the West Virginia State Line south of I-70 south of Washington, Pa. They copied it but it took three sections for up loading to the CD.

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Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 9:36 AM
Wow.....You have really dug deep into all available data on the historic subject. Sure glad it is being recorded otherwise it would all be scattered pieces and down the road no one would be able to piece it together for history.

Quentin

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 12:45 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

Dave....I too am thinking maybe we should not be posting so much on a RR project that's different from your original subject....Say the word and I'll back away....I must confess the SP RR is a fascinating subject to me.

Bear in mind too,that there are a fair amount of people reading this thread who know nothing of the area, yet find the topic interesting nonetheless.[:D]

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 3:09 PM
....M S: Thanks.

Quentin

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Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 6:56 PM
Russ, what process did they use there at the State Achives to copy the large map {in your photo}, images over to a CD....? There seems to be reams and reams of it....Just how is it recorded.
I wonder how the surveyors had enough time to survey and map the surrounding terrain and even record the locations of buildings, etc...Remember these surveyors would most likely have been on horse back for their travel mode.....! And of course there were no roads for the most part, where they were traveling. Really wild stuff....!
Each time we travel east to home in Pennsylvania {and will be doing so in a few weeks}, again....as we near Somerset {where our Hampton Inn is}, at the appropriate mile marker I never fail to peek over at the ex tunnel entrances there at Quemahoming Tunnel just a few miles from my exit at the Somerset interchange. From that tunnel down to about a mile or so west of Somerset the SP ROW and the Turnpike {I believe}, are just about on top of each other....At the tunnel entrance {east side}, it looks to me like the RR ROW was about 20 ft. or so lower than the existing grade of the Turnpike.

Item: I have an original from the opening of the Pennsy Turnpike...a string of post cards all together of views of various locations on the pike such as tunnel entrances, interchanges, services station/restaurant plazas, etc....Probably now a real collector item at the right location. For anyone interested, all the {original}, stations were Standard Oil...{Esso}, and all restaurants were Howard Johnson's...

Quentin

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 7:18 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

Russ, what process did they use there at the State Achives to copy the large map {in your photo}, images over to a CD....? There seems to be reems and reems of it....Just how is it recorded.
I wonder how the surveyors had enough time to survey and map the surrounding terrain and even record the locations of buildings, etc...Remember these surveyors would most likely have been on horse back for their travel mode.....! And of course there were no roads for the most part, where they were traveling. Really wild stuff....!
Each time we travel east to home in Pennsylvania {and will be doing so in a few weeks}, again....as we near Somerset {where our Hampton Inn is}, at the appropriate mile marker I never fail to peek over at the ex tunnel entrances there at Quemahoming Tunnel just a few miles from my exit at the Somerset interchange. From that tunnel down to about a mile or so west of Somerset the SP ROW and the Turnpike {I believe}, are just about on top of each other....At the tunnel entrance {east side}, it looks to me like the RR ROW was about 20 ft. or so lower than the existing grade of the Turnpike.
Item: I have an original from the opening of the Pennsy Turnpike...a string of post cards all together of views of various locations on the pike such as tunnel entrances, interchanges, services station/restaurant plazas, etc....Probably now a real collector item at the right location. For anyone interested, all the {original}, stations were Standard Oil...{Esso}, and all restaurants were Howard Johnson's...


Your correct in that the Quemahoning tunnel is at a lower then the turnpike grade. In fact exactly at the 106.0 mile post, I was able to descend down the east bound slope of the turnpike fill and measure inside the cement culvert 65 feet inside the cement changed from cement to South Penn stone culvert stone which the early 1938-40 era turnpike engineers felt the culvert was in good enough shape to remain and just expand it.

That tunnel was utilized by the Pittsburgh Westmoreland & Somerset Railroad during the years 1906 to 1916. It brought Somerset passengers from Somerset through the tunnel over the Laurel Mountain to Ligionier at Ligioier they could transfer onto the Ligionier Valley Railroad a Mellon railroad to Latrobeto a connection with the Pennsy to Pittsburgh this gave Somerset passengers and extra 2 hours to spend in Pittsburgh over the trip via the B&O to Pittsburgh.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/spennrr18811885/quetunneleast.jpg



From the 105.5 mile post east to the Somerset interchange was the PW&S and next time you exit the interchange the far right toll stall, look to the right into the creek along the tollbooth and you should make out the remains of the PW&S grade at that point. It will have a lot of very twiggy thin trees on top of it.

The spools are or needed to be opened five times to explore what was on it when I decided to have them copy it for me. (jpg) The surveyors made notes and brought them back to field offices to have them placed on the maps. I have this information in South Penn letters. I though to that they did them on horses in the field but that was small maps they made in the fields such as the one I will send up next.

I wish I could send it all up to the net but that would be impossible.

I will send up photo soon. You'll enjoy it .

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Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 7:43 PM
Russ, that's exactly where our Hotel is located.....Right there we turn right at that toll both and our Hampton Inn is right beyond....The little creek is right behind the parking lot on the side of the hotel facing the Turnpike.....

I have a little booklet on the PW&S too...Schedule from Pittsburgh Lv. 8:00am and ar. Somerset at 12 noon....Booklet name: THE STORY OF A MOUNTAIN RAILROAD by Franklin J. Langsdale. Of course that would mean travel on the Pennsylvania to Latrobe and from there the Ligonier Valley RR and then from there the PW&S to Somerset...

Quentin

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Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 8:10 PM
....That's a great pic of the east portal of Quemahoning.

They just did a lot of renovation work there at Somerset Interchange....but I'll try to locate the PW&S near the toll both....Hope they didn't disturb that exact area....Believe they may not have...Not sure though because that exit ramp off from east bound has been completely redone these last 2 years.....

Quentin

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 8:21 PM


I added this map to show how I follow the proposed South Penn grade onto todays topographic maps. Remember there was not a spade of dirt turned on this mountain front. So by studying this old railroad map I was able to locate where it should have been built. Not bad for an idle period of 120 years



The South Penn physical work only occoured between the areas from just one mile east of the Blue Mountain tunnel to just immediatly west of the Donegal interchange. However I didn't stop exploring the South Penn because I ran out of wrk sites. The areas where no work was done also and intreaged me even more. After acquireing the survey maps and the1884 report, I continued exploreing the clues provided and managed to piece together these plat maps to form a survey map much like they most likely did in the office. Look close if its possible to see just how many maps I had to piece together to make this map of the descent down the west slope of the Chestnut ridge between the Pennsylvania Turnpike 86.0 mile post to the 80.0 mile post. The added milage caused an extra five miles in the curves that were made. The turnpike would be just about crossig from the bottom right corner to the top left corner through this map.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/spennrr18811885/chestnutdescent.jpg

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 8:23 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....That's a great pic of the east portal of Quemahoning.

They just did a lot of renovation work there at Somerset Interchange....but I'll try to locate the PW&S near the toll both....Hope they didn't disturb that exact area....Believe they may not have...Not sure though because that exit ramp off from east bound has been completely redone these last 2 years.....




http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/spennrr18811885/pwsgradesomersetintr.jpg

No and the proof is in this shot. Enjoy!!

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Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 8:34 PM
Awesome stuff Russ.....You're so right, I can easily see the grade in your pic there at the entry to the toll both....{Our Hamton Inn is just out of the right side of your pic....

Quentin

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 8:42 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

Awesome stuff Russ.....You're so right, I can easily see the grade in your pic there at the entry to the toll both....{Our Hamton Inn is just out of the right side of your pic....


Well like I do, if the wife sleeps in late you can take a walk out of the room and do a little exploring and collect some PW&S photo shots. It also crossed the outside tollbooths to cross into the weed zone opposite your hotel to the south parking lot of McDonalds to the south side of Windy's and then the parking lot of E&Park t and crossing of the creek just east of E&P to the Jenny globe site. It did make connection to the B&O line just to the feed mill located on 281.

Did I mention at all tht the now bike trail from Conellsville to Confluence was pre-surveyed by the South Penn Railroad or what was Western Maryland trough the Youghiogheny valley from Confluence to Connellsville via Ohio Pyle. I have those maps as well and a few South Penn correspondance letters.

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Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 8:42 PM
....Must sign for a while Russ...Thanks for sharing pic's and info of maps and photos....Enjoyed.

Quentin

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Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 8:47 PM
....I followed all of that....Will take a closer look when I'm there. Have eaten at Eat and Park many times.....Home town is 10 miles north of there but we make our "home" there at the hotel when in the area....Family mostly gone.

Quentin

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 9:29 PM
When you go on your ten mile trip north of Somerset, give a few min and stop at the back parking lot of the new Walmart loction to look see this section of South Penn grade at the very back south east corner of their parking lot. Under that grade is a stone arch culvert built there. Walmart is on the right utop the hill. Easy to get down here.



http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d64/spennrr18811885/kennyb.jpg

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