Tales from the Metro

[Anonymous]

Hello goboard - hopefully you're still monitoring this thread. I was reading one of your posts regarding crossing crashes and you said something very interesting about safety equipment being "grandfathered" by federal law when existing crossings do not have a crash history BEYOND the time at which standards were upgraded. For example, if the law mandated 12" lenses on side-of-street flashers, yet there were 27 fully functional state locations with 8" flashers and no crash history, then the state could elect to "leave well-enough alone" and NOT waste public funds to simply replace something that was working fine. I was hoping to e-mail you off this forum but your e-mail link was not in the member profile.

FYI - I'm a professional rail safety analyst looking for any federal precedent that justifies the decision to NOT spend money in locations where there is no demonstrated NEED..... I would rather spend our limited funding on higher-risk locations that would upgrade warning from crossbucks to flashers, than to replace equipment that works fine but may be outdated.

Thanks in advance for your reply.......

Respectfully submitted,

aaman

[Anonymous]

Hello goboard - hopefully you're still monitoring this thread. I was reading one of your posts regarding crossing crashes and you said something very interesting about safety equipment being "grandfathered" by federal law when existing crossings do not have a crash history BEYOND the time at which standards were upgraded. For example, if the law mandated 12" lenses on side-of-street flashers, yet there were 27 fully functional state locations with 8" flashers and no crash history, then the state could elect to "leave well-enough alone" and NOT waste public funds to simply replace something that was working fine. I was hoping to e-mail you off this forum but your e-mail link was not in the member profile.

FYI - I'm a professional rail safety analyst looking for any federal precedent that justifies the decision to NOT spend money in locations where there is no demonstrated NEED..... I would rather spend our limited funding on higher-risk locations that would upgrade warning from crossbucks to flashers, than to replace equipment that works fine but may be outdated.

Thanks in advance for your reply.......

Respectfully submitted,

aaman

[Anonymous]

To Kevin,

Well, LA's Metro is mostly LRT, so they don't technically have conductors, just ticket "inspectors" I guess.

Yeah, I paid for my transfer. But when I got my ticket-- it looked like a grocery receipt, made out of the same paper roll-- I was amazed they had no electronic bar code on it, no magnetic strip, etc.

I just think it's stupid not to have some sort of ticket validations. But again, this is LA. Each rail line has its own character, they connect to each other, but don't really do the same things, it's rails-to-nowhere.

The connections are totally ill-conceived. For instance, it is virtually impossible to go to LAX by rail. You have to go down to Union Station by Gold, transfer to Red for three stops, transfer to Blue and ride and ride and ride (no express trains) all the way down to Green, make a giant geographical right-angle and ride and ride and ride to Aviation where (maybe) you will be picked up by a bus.

Everybody drives anyway, so the incentive to get people using transit is winked at. Their real points-of-sale are all located on the busses. I agree with VSmith, they need someone to coordinate everything, instead of running what is the equivalent of the Toonerville Trolley.

[Anonymous]

To Kevin,

Well, LA's Metro is mostly LRT, so they don't technically have conductors, just ticket "inspectors" I guess.

Yeah, I paid for my transfer. But when I got my ticket-- it looked like a grocery receipt, made out of the same paper roll-- I was amazed they had no electronic bar code on it, no magnetic strip, etc.

I just think it's stupid not to have some sort of ticket validations. But again, this is LA. Each rail line has its own character, they connect to each other, but don't really do the same things, it's rails-to-nowhere.

The connections are totally ill-conceived. For instance, it is virtually impossible to go to LAX by rail. You have to go down to Union Station by Gold, transfer to Red for three stops, transfer to Blue and ride and ride and ride (no express trains) all the way down to Green, make a giant geographical right-angle and ride and ride and ride to Aviation where (maybe) you will be picked up by a bus.

Everybody drives anyway, so the incentive to get people using transit is winked at. Their real points-of-sale are all located on the busses. I agree with VSmith, they need someone to coordinate everything, instead of running what is the equivalent of the Toonerville Trolley.

[vsmith]

I think what Goboard is refering to is the fact that outside of the main stations there are no turnstyles, you can just walk up and enter the train, not that Goboard jumps turnstyles (right Goboard?). Its an honor system for now, they are saying we trust that you have bought a ticket. This is only after peak hours and I'm pretty sure there are "inspectors" or transit police watching to see whose freeloading. The systems has worked for the most part on the other lines. no transit officials crying foul yet. Probably only a matter of time before the turnstyles ala NYC or Chicago are added.

[vsmith]

I think what Goboard is refering to is the fact that outside of the main stations there are no turnstyles, you can just walk up and enter the train, not that Goboard jumps turnstyles (right Goboard?). Its an honor system for now, they are saying we trust that you have bought a ticket. This is only after peak hours and I'm pretty sure there are "inspectors" or transit police watching to see whose freeloading. The systems has worked for the most part on the other lines. no transit officials crying foul yet. Probably only a matter of time before the turnstyles ala NYC or Chicago are added.

[Anonymous]

AHHH gobord story scares me...

Your talking about conductor free past what time roguhly.. do you mean the ACTUAL conductor.. or the man who checks tickets...

Checking Tickets is not my job up here on the AMT. those are the "inspectors" that do so. My job is to open and close the doors, call out the next station, and wait for the hot box detector to tell me somehting i don't really want to here.. thats my basic job when i'm a conductor.. the "basic" version.. I never, ever, ever check tickets.. The AMt is to petty to hire inspectors for weekends or nights. SO no one checks tickets then.. and i sure don't stand outside asking people Do you have your ticket.... one conductor did... the old battle ax.. I don't care what the Race of the person , gender, how long their hair is,nor *** seize... I don't hold anyone back.. the old battle axe that does.. if he decides to ask every 3rd person while theyre getting on the train... he could get nailed for Racial profiling.. because he only checked THAT persons ticket, and not the person in front of him. so i just DONT BOTHER! it's not my job, and theyre not gonna make me do it!

If someone braggs and sais i didn't buy my ticket nah-nah-nah i usually Respond... your gonna get caught one day nah-nah-nah!

What goes around comes around! it's almost 500 bucks if you don't have your ticket!! i'd pay the 2.50 or whatever it is!

[Anonymous]

AHHH gobord story scares me...

Your talking about conductor free past what time roguhly.. do you mean the ACTUAL conductor.. or the man who checks tickets...

Checking Tickets is not my job up here on the AMT. those are the "inspectors" that do so. My job is to open and close the doors, call out the next station, and wait for the hot box detector to tell me somehting i don't really want to here.. thats my basic job when i'm a conductor.. the "basic" version.. I never, ever, ever check tickets.. The AMt is to petty to hire inspectors for weekends or nights. SO no one checks tickets then.. and i sure don't stand outside asking people Do you have your ticket.... one conductor did... the old battle ax.. I don't care what the Race of the person , gender, how long their hair is,nor *** seize... I don't hold anyone back.. the old battle axe that does.. if he decides to ask every 3rd person while theyre getting on the train... he could get nailed for Racial profiling.. because he only checked THAT persons ticket, and not the person in front of him. so i just DONT BOTHER! it's not my job, and theyre not gonna make me do it!

If someone braggs and sais i didn't buy my ticket nah-nah-nah i usually Respond... your gonna get caught one day nah-nah-nah!

What goes around comes around! it's almost 500 bucks if you don't have your ticket!! i'd pay the 2.50 or whatever it is!

[vsmith]

About 5 or 6 years ago the last trains came thru. That particular right of way goes all the way to San Bernardino. As for getting to burbank they would have a hard time since there is no existing rail right of way from Pasadena to Burbank area. The trains would have to split down at Lincoln Heights go past the Metrolink shops and continue up the existing railline to the airport. What I would like to see in a branch from Pasadena center northwest towards LaCanada/Flintridge. there used to be an old freight line that went up to Altadena near JPL and the PE trains used to go up Lincoln Blvd then over to Rubio Canyon. Also they should put a lightrail system right down the center of Huntington drive from Downtown LA right out to Duarte. It could connect with the Gold Line there. Chances of that happening are slim, San Marino is full of Nuclear Powered NIMBY's. What Los Angeles (California? USA?) needs is a Transportation Czar that can determine the best places for new rail and transit services and instigate them without political BS that derails so many needed projects. Example, why doesnt the Green line go to LAX like it was originaly designed too?

[vsmith]

About 5 or 6 years ago the last trains came thru. That particular right of way goes all the way to San Bernardino. As for getting to burbank they would have a hard time since there is no existing rail right of way from Pasadena to Burbank area. The trains would have to split down at Lincoln Heights go past the Metrolink shops and continue up the existing railline to the airport. What I would like to see in a branch from Pasadena center northwest towards LaCanada/Flintridge. there used to be an old freight line that went up to Altadena near JPL and the PE trains used to go up Lincoln Blvd then over to Rubio Canyon. Also they should put a lightrail system right down the center of Huntington drive from Downtown LA right out to Duarte. It could connect with the Gold Line there. Chances of that happening are slim, San Marino is full of Nuclear Powered NIMBY's. What Los Angeles (California? USA?) needs is a Transportation Czar that can determine the best places for new rail and transit services and instigate them without political BS that derails so many needed projects. Example, why doesnt the Green line go to LAX like it was originaly designed too?

[Anonymous]

I know what you mean. Nothing but NIMBYs. What they don't realize is that it will probably raise their property values, because of rail access, just like the *very* expensive density on the outskirts of the Jersey NYC metro area.

I don't know if they have a nighttime horn ban, but I didn't hear it when I rode through at night.

The electronic horns and bells they use must have a variable decibel control.

I wasn't in the area when the ATSF ran through. How may years ago was that?

I guess they'll try to build to Claremont. . . does the line run out to Ontario? Then you could use the airport there really easily, although I think it would be easier to run to Burbank.

What the Gold Line REALLY needs is more Park-and-Ride. That one parking garage in Sierra Madre Villa just won't cut it in the long run. Busses are notoriously bad at making connections on time, even on a fairly good transit line like DC Metro. A series of smaller parking lots would have been more useful.

[Anonymous]

I know what you mean. Nothing but NIMBYs. What they don't realize is that it will probably raise their property values, because of rail access, just like the *very* expensive density on the outskirts of the Jersey NYC metro area.

I don't know if they have a nighttime horn ban, but I didn't hear it when I rode through at night.

The electronic horns and bells they use must have a variable decibel control.

I wasn't in the area when the ATSF ran through. How may years ago was that?

I guess they'll try to build to Claremont. . . does the line run out to Ontario? Then you could use the airport there really easily, although I think it would be easier to run to Burbank.

What the Gold Line REALLY needs is more Park-and-Ride. That one parking garage in Sierra Madre Villa just won't cut it in the long run. Busses are notoriously bad at making connections on time, even on a fairly good transit line like DC Metro. A series of smaller parking lots would have been more useful.

[vsmith]

I think the SoPas people that are complaining are the ones that moved in AFTER Santa Fe stopped running freights down that line.

I've heard the Gold line go thru there, Its quiet, the bells at the crossings are really low volumn and the horn is also low. Almost barely noticable.

When the freight train rumbled thru the noise from the cars alone was defeaning not to mention the throaty diesels roaring thru. They are just a bunch of whining grumpies who got bought there thinking it will be 20 years before they fini***he line. I say if they dont like it, they shouldnt have bought there. Its like the people who knowingly buy a house under an airport approach then complain about the resulting noise.

[vsmith]

I think the SoPas people that are complaining are the ones that moved in AFTER Santa Fe stopped running freights down that line.

I've heard the Gold line go thru there, Its quiet, the bells at the crossings are really low volumn and the horn is also low. Almost barely noticable.

When the freight train rumbled thru the noise from the cars alone was defeaning not to mention the throaty diesels roaring thru. They are just a bunch of whining grumpies who got bought there thinking it will be 20 years before they fini***he line. I say if they dont like it, they shouldnt have bought there. Its like the people who knowingly buy a house under an airport approach then complain about the resulting noise.

[Anonymous]

I'm waiting for the people from South Pas to stop complaining about the big, scary trains and all those bells and whistles.

Heck, they must have spent a fortune on nothing but crossings: the entire line through to Mission is lined with nothing but Quad gates and median barriers! They're all tied to the traffic lights, and even do some street running.

I must say though, it seems like the Blue Line is faster, if not rattier and worn. As everyone gets familiar, that'll even out.

[Anonymous]

I'm waiting for the people from South Pas to stop complaining about the big, scary trains and all those bells and whistles.

Heck, they must have spent a fortune on nothing but crossings: the entire line through to Mission is lined with nothing but Quad gates and median barriers! They're all tied to the traffic lights, and even do some street running.

I must say though, it seems like the Blue Line is faster, if not rattier and worn. As everyone gets familiar, that'll even out.

[Anonymous]

I just wi***hey would do something about Sacramento's RT metro light rail. It has 1line that runs from the north end of town thru downtown and out to the east side of town. Its a nice ride but not very practical.

[Anonymous]

I just wi***hey would do something about Sacramento's RT metro light rail. It has 1line that runs from the north end of town thru downtown and out to the east side of town. Its a nice ride but not very practical.

[Anonymous]

Yes, deodorant is our friend!

The train I was on was also daytrippers. Consequently, we had people asking all sorts of stupid questions of our driver (not really an engineer), who also seemed new. The freeway platforms are incredibly loud. I wi***hey would put noise barriers up along the stations. I'm just waiting for the first SUV to hop the carpool lane into the right-of-way.

Wonder how much seniority it takes to sit in a computerized cab? Those cars basically run themselves.

Kind of embarrassing how people acted so naive. I'm originally from the East coast, have ridden DC Metro, SEPTA, NJ Transit, NYC Subway, etc. It's sad that LA Metro is basically the equivalent of Baltimore's light rail. An excuse to make people feel better about freeway capacity.

[Anonymous]

Yes, deodorant is our friend!

The train I was on was also daytrippers. Consequently, we had people asking all sorts of stupid questions of our driver (not really an engineer), who also seemed new. The freeway platforms are incredibly loud. I wi***hey would put noise barriers up along the stations. I'm just waiting for the first SUV to hop the carpool lane into the right-of-way.

Wonder how much seniority it takes to sit in a computerized cab? Those cars basically run themselves.

Kind of embarrassing how people acted so naive. I'm originally from the East coast, have ridden DC Metro, SEPTA, NJ Transit, NYC Subway, etc. It's sad that LA Metro is basically the equivalent of Baltimore's light rail. An excuse to make people feel better about freeway capacity.

[vsmith]

Rode the Gold on Sunday.

Packed in like sardines, felt like being back in New York or Chicago...
right down to the sweaty guy next to you who never learned what deodorant is for...

[vsmith]

Rode the Gold on Sunday.

Packed in like sardines, felt like being back in New York or Chicago...
right down to the sweaty guy next to you who never learned what deodorant is for...

[Anonymous]

Okay,

Here's the place to describe your weirdest, best or worst problem with commuter lines.

What sparked this post was my trip on the LA MTA Gold Line. As all have seen, packed to the gills with people riding free on their weekend inaugural.

I was there, the reason was all the festival stuff they had going on at different station stops. The new line is nice, the LRCs are quiet, but saw my first grafitti tag on a new car.

So I decided to try and ride when not so crowded. Murphy's Law: pick a time, it'll never be right. A rare thunderstorm went through the area, so raining cats and dogs. The train ahead of us broke down at the end of the line, so we sat waiting for a reverse move, as they switched traffic direction. Apparently, no crossovers for three stations.

Anyway, I decided to time how long it would take to get from Pasadena to LAX. Three transfers later, and almost 2 hours, I decided that getting to the airport by transit was not very efficient, even if it was $1.60.

No matter, this is LA, and besides they don't have turnstile jumpers . . . because there are no turnstiles! Yes, they get rid of their conductors after peak hours, so it's a massive honor system running thorugh some of the least honorable parts of the city.

And now you know why California has budget problems . . .

[Anonymous]

Okay,

Here's the place to describe your weirdest, best or worst problem with commuter lines.

What sparked this post was my trip on the LA MTA Gold Line. As all have seen, packed to the gills with people riding free on their weekend inaugural.

I was there, the reason was all the festival stuff they had going on at different station stops. The new line is nice, the LRCs are quiet, but saw my first grafitti tag on a new car.

So I decided to try and ride when not so crowded. Murphy's Law: pick a time, it'll never be right. A rare thunderstorm went through the area, so raining cats and dogs. The train ahead of us broke down at the end of the line, so we sat waiting for a reverse move, as they switched traffic direction. Apparently, no crossovers for three stations.

Anyway, I decided to time how long it would take to get from Pasadena to LAX. Three transfers later, and almost 2 hours, I decided that getting to the airport by transit was not very efficient, even if it was $1.60.

No matter, this is LA, and besides they don't have turnstile jumpers . . . because there are no turnstiles! Yes, they get rid of their conductors after peak hours, so it's a massive honor system running thorugh some of the least honorable parts of the city.

And now you know why California has budget problems . . .