B&O Passenger Train Access to Chicago

[Kevin C. Smith]

At the time Grand Central Station (Chicago) was abandoned by the B&O, they moved their trains (at least temporarily?) to North Western Station. With LaSalle Street & Dearborn practically next door, why the move and awkward approach (from the west) to C&NW? Even Union would've been easier, it seems to me, except that I'm sure Pennsy would have none of it.

Did B&O trains always approach downtown from the west?

I seem to remember reading somewhwere that C&NW had to raise the trainshed roof to accomodate the B&O's dome cars but I find it hard to believe that they would spend that much money to accomodate a tenant's equipment.

Enlightenment, please!

Thanks!

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The move to North Western Station was not as odd as it sounds. B&O had a rather convoluted entry into Chicago. it entered from Northwest Indiana paralleling PRR and NYC. Just north of 95th St., it swung west on trackage rights on RI through Pullman Jct. and part of RI's Suburban branch, picking up the B&OCT just east of Western Ave., where it headed north through Brighton Park and Ash interlockings to near 18th St., turning east for the run to Grand Central.

La Salle may have been considered. I'm not sure if the trackage arrangement at Pullman Junction would have allowed a connection to Dearborn.

[CShaveRR]

I don't think they raised any roofs. The C&O and B&O trains were usually put on Tracks 1 and 2, and though its possible that tracks were slightly lowered, I doubt that any track that could accommodate CNW bilevel cars wouldn't have been able to handle B&O's low-profile dome cars as well.

[bobwilcox]

I beleve at least some of the sheds at Northwestern Station were raised in the early 1950s to accomidate the City Trains when they aquired dome cars.

[MP173]

I checked my August, 1955 Official Guide and came up with the following mileages and times for various railroads between Chicago and Gary, In:

B&O Capital Limited 33.3 miles to Gary. Scheduled time - 61 minutes
PRR The General 25 miles to Gary Scheduled time - 37 minutes
NYC Twilight Ltd. 29.7 miles to Gary Scheduled time - 38 minutes....this was via the IC and teh Michigan Central routing for Detroit.
NYC Commander Vanderbuilt
26.1 miles to Gary Scheduled time - 34 minutes...this was from Lasalle Street to Englewood.

As you can see, the B&O was at a disadvantage of 23 to 27 minutes from Northwest Indiana. Granted these trains did not solicit short haul passengers, but still, it was an extra 25 minutes or so on common points.

ed

[bobwilcox]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173

I checked my August, 1955 Official Guide and came up with the following mileages and times for various railroads between Chicago and Gary, In:

B&O Capital Limited 33.3 miles to Gary. Scheduled time - 61 minutes
PRR The General 25 miles to Gary Scheduled time - 37 minutes
NYC Twilight Ltd. 29.7 miles to Gary Scheduled time - 38 minutes....this was via the IC and teh Michigan Central routing for Detroit.
NYC Commander Vanderbuilt
26.1 miles to Gary Scheduled time - 34 minutes...this was from Lasalle Street to Englewood.

As you can see, the B&O was at a disadvantage of 23 to 27 minutes from Northwest Indiana. Granted these trains did not solicit short haul passengers, but still, it was an extra 25 minutes or so on common points.

ed

Yes, but. After a long day in DC it was great to catch the Westbound Capital for a ride in the dome up the Potomic Valley to Cumberland and beyond. The dome cars were equiped with spot lights so you got this wierd passing view of the landscape a few yards off the row.

[Anonymous]

The B&O Station was on high-value real estate at the time and Mayor Dailey the 1st one wanted to reduce the number of stations.

[MP173]

What address was Grand Central Station?

The whole south loop area today has just exploded.

ed

[BaltACD]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173

I checked my August, 1955 Official Guide and came up with the following mileages and times for various railroads between Chicago and Gary, In:

B&O Capital Limited 33.3 miles to Gary. Scheduled time - 61 minutes
PRR The General 25 miles to Gary Scheduled time - 37 minutes
NYC Twilight Ltd. 29.7 miles to Gary Scheduled time - 38 minutes....this was via the IC and teh Michigan Central routing for Detroit.
NYC Commander Vanderbuilt
26.1 miles to Gary Scheduled time - 34 minutes...this was from Lasalle Street to Englewood.

As you can see, the B&O was at a disadvantage of 23 to 27 minutes from Northwest Indiana. Granted these trains did not solicit short haul passengers, but still, it was an extra 25 minutes or so on common points.

ed

The B&O route into Grand Central Station was convoluted and time consuming and it was one of the reason quit using the F3's they had purchased for Passenger Service in passenger service out of Chicago as the generally had consumed all their water supply for the steam generators by the time the trains reached Garret, the next division point and opportunity to top off on fuel and water.

[CShaveRR]

Grand Central was on the southwest corner of Harrison and Wells Streets.

[Kevin C. Smith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

I don't think they raised any roofs. The C&O and B&O trains were usually put on Tracks 1 and 2, and though its possible that tracks were slightly lowered, I doubt that any track that could accommodate CNW bilevel cars wouldn't have been able to handle B&O's low-profile dome cars as well.

If I remember, there was an overhead passage from the station concourse to the Lake Street L station that was over track 1 (later moved to track/platform level). Maybe that accounted for extra clearance that C&NW used to put the Capitol's domes on that track? It sure seems to me, too, that a shed that would fit bilevels would fit domes, too.

[CShaveRR]

As long as the "Northwest Passage" was there, it was at ground level inside the shed, taking the place of Track 1 after C&O/B&O passenger trains were terminated. No evidence of height increase visible on photos of end of shed.

[daveklepper]

 

 

 

Northwestern Station:

[BaltACD]

daveklepper

 

 

 

Transited through Grand Central many times during the period of 1959-1963.

 

[Gramp]

Took the Capitol on a field trip to DC from Grand Central in 1967. Have a memory of the slow and roundabout route to get out of Chicago. Loved the castle-like tower and expansive trainshed of the terminal. A real shame it was torn down. Had it lasted, could have been a showpiece today, particularly since Chicago is known for its architecture. 

[Lithonia Operator]

This thread took a 16-year hiatus. I wonder if that's a record?

[daveklepper]

Only the pictures showing trains, all the Capital Limited, are mine.  And  I did ride the last CL out out of GC, on a business trip to DC, returning to the C&NW Station.

THe C&O owned the B&O by then and  had a surplus of E-8s, with its reduction from three to one Newpot News and Washibgton - Cincinnati train.

The other photos are from other threads on this Forum.

[daveklepper]

Reviving the thread was intended to provide interest and background for the newly-scanned Northwestern Station photos.

[diningcar]

I also rode the CL between Chicago and DC several times. Always enjoyed the food and the early morning scenery on the eastward trip

[MP173]

Lets see 16 years ago I was only 51 years old...

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Gramp

Took the Capitol on a field trip to DC from Grand Central in 1967. Have a memory of the slow and roundabout route to get out of Chicago. Loved the castle-like tower and expansive trainshed of the terminal. A real shame it was torn down. Had it lasted, could have been a showpiece today, particularly since Chicago is known for its architecture. 

Grand Central was designed by Solon S. Beman, who is better known for his work in the design of Pullman.  The station was modeled after a Norman fortress, a general style which fell out of favor to be replaced by the Classical style only a few years after the staion was built.  The location was not too good either until the Eisenhower Expressway was built just a block north of the station and opened up the land north of Harrison Street, affording a nice view of the station.

[BaltACD]

CSSHEGEWISCH

 

Gramp

Took the Capitol on a field trip to DC from Grand Central in 1967. Have a memory of the slow and roundabout route to get out of Chicago. Loved the castle-like tower and expansive trainshed of the terminal. A real shame it was torn down. Had it lasted, could have been a showpiece today, particularly since Chicago is known for its architecture.  

Grand Central was designed by Solon S. Beman, who is better known for his work in the design of Pullman.  The station was modeled after a Norman fortress, a general style which fell out of favor to be replaced by the Classical style only a few years after the staion was built.  The location was not too good either until the Eisenhower Expressway was built just a block north of the station and opened up the land north of Harrison Street, affording a nice view of the station.

The B&OCT/RI route from Grand Central to Pine Jct was a one hour jaunt for the 30 route miles of the trip.

[SD60MAC9500]

 

MP173

What address was Grand Central Station?

The whole south loop area today has just exploded.

ed

 

201 West Harrison Street

 

[charlie hebdo]

CSSHEGEWISCH

 

 

Gramp

Took the Capitol on a field trip to DC from Grand Central in 1967. Have a memory of the slow and roundabout route to get out of Chicago. Loved the castle-like tower and expansive trainshed of the terminal. A real shame it was torn down. Had it lasted, could have been a showpiece today, particularly since Chicago is known for its architecture. 

 

 

 

Grand Central was designed by Solon S. Beman, who is better known for his work in the design of Pullman.  The station was modeled after a Norman fortress, a general style which fell out of favor to be replaced by the Classical style only a few years after the staion was built.  The location was not too good either until the Eisenhower Expressway was built just a block north of the station and opened up the land north of Harrison Street, affording a nice view of the station.

 

Romanesque Revival is the term used.