Cabforwards pulling passenger trains?

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Cabforwards pulling passenger trains?
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 5:11 PM
Did the 4100 class of cabforwards ever pull the Lark train in the late 40's or early 50's?
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 12:30 PM
A cab-forward on the Lark would be unlikely but an article in TRAINS from many years ago shows a cab-forward with a 2-8-0 helper on the point of the Overland Ltd at Dutch Flat.
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 12:38 PM
The cab forwards wer built to prevent gassing the engine grew while going through the tunnels on the way to Donner pass. The Lark ran between San Francisco and Los Angeles and did not have the grades of the Donner route, although there were a couple of tunnels. I doubt if the cab forwards ever made it to the coast line.

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 6:34 PM
I think the "Owl" did, it went over Tehachapi pass.

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Posted by kenneo on Thursday, December 22, 2005 1:24 AM
There was even a class separate from the 4-8-8-2 and 2-8-8-2 cab forwards that were designed for passenger service 2-6-6-2 cab forwards. Can't remember their class or number series, and they did not last all that long - the GS class 4-8-4's replaced them.

I am not anything close to the font of knowledge about your question, but to the best of my knowledge, every passenger train operating west of Yuma had a cab forward on its train at one time or another - including Coast Line trains. They were considered "regular" power between Roseville and Sparks.
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Posted by canazar on Thursday, December 22, 2005 2:17 AM
Kenneo,

I think you are right on.. In my club, and other fellow modelers, the SP is pretty popular here in Arizona to model. I have heard from quite a few folks that Cab Fowards got their fare share of passeneger trains on the Sunset Route, which I belive is what you are reffering to "west of Yuma".

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Kiva Valley Railway- Freelanced road in central Arizona.  Visit the link to see my MR forum thread on The Building of the Whitton Branch on the  Kiva Valley Railway

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Posted by kenneo on Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:27 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by canazar

Kenneo,

I think you are right on.. In my club, and other fellow modelers, the SP is pretty popular here in Arizona to model. I have heard from quite a few folks that Cab Fowards got their fare share of passeneger trains on the Sunset Route, which I belive is what you are reffering to "west of Yuma".


Yes, the Sunset, but I did want to restrict the operating area. I know that they operated as far as Yuma, and the one class of AC locomotives that burned coal and ran "normal" end first were bought to use on the Golden State.

The cab forwards were like the Tunnel Motors - built for service on the Overland and Shasta Routes, but run everywhere.
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 22, 2005 12:33 PM
The great centenial edition of Central Pacific & Southern Pacific RR by Beebe is loaded with photos of the AC's in action with both passenger and freight trains. They operated almost everywhere on the SP. According to Beebe they operated as far east as Tucumcari. They also pulled freight on the Coast Line, passenger over Tehachapi, Donner, Beaumont, and operated as far north as Eugene, Oregon..
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 22, 2005 6:03 PM
I stand corrected partly. In Signor's book "Southern Pacific's Coast Line" there are several pictures of cab forwards around Santa Barbara, however, the photos only show freights with the ACs being used to get up the grade to Hope Ranch without the need for helpers. I do not know if the ACs actually pulled passenger trains on the coast line.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, December 22, 2005 7:22 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo

There was even a class separate from the 4-8-8-2 and 2-8-8-2 cab forwards that were designed for passenger service 2-6-6-2 cab forwards. Can't remember their class or number series, and they did not last all that long - the GS class 4-8-4's replaced them.

I am not anything close to the font of knowledge about your question, but to the best of my knowledge, every passenger train operating west of Yuma had a cab forward on its train at one time or another - including Coast Line trains. They were considered "regular" power between Roseville and Sparks.


I didn't know there was more than one type of cab forward?

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by M636C on Thursday, December 22, 2005 9:16 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo

There was even a class separate from the 4-8-8-2 and 2-8-8-2 cab forwards that were designed for passenger service 2-6-6-2 cab forwards. Can't remember their class or number series, and they did not last all that long - the GS class 4-8-4's replaced them.

I am not anything close to the font of knowledge about your question, but to the best of my knowledge, every passenger train operating west of Yuma had a cab forward on its train at one time or another - including Coast Line trains. They were considered "regular" power between Roseville and Sparks.


I didn't know there was more than one type of cab forward?


I have a "Video Rails" tape about the Coast line, and taken towards the end of steam, it shows GS-4s on the Lark and Cab Forwards on freight at the Los Angeles end up to San Luis Obispo. I think the Cab Forwards would be too slow for the "Lark" which was an all Pullman Limited, thought of as the West Coast equivalent of the Twentieth Century. (Both trains were two tone grey!) I think the GS type ran it until diesels took over.

There were three main types of Cab Forward, the first were classes MC-1, MC-4 and MC-6 which were 57" driver 2-8-8-2 compound locomotives, converted to simple as classes AC-1 to AC-3, numbers 4000 to 4048. The "Passenger" engines were class MM-2, 2-6-6-2, later 4-6-6-2, 63" driver, numbers 4200-4211, converted to simple as AM-2 and later renumbered 3900-3911. The familiar final type were classes AC-4 to AC-8 and AC10 to AC-12, 63" driver, 4-8-8-2 numbered 4100 to 4294, Classes AC-8 and later had "streamlined" pointed cabs.

AC-9 were the normal coal burning 2-8-8-4 locomotives, otherwise like class AC-8, numbered from 3800.

M stood for "Mallet" (as first letter) ie compound
A stood for "Articulated" ie simple
C stood for "Consolidation"
M stood for "Mogul" (as second letter)

M636C
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Posted by traintownofcowee on Friday, December 23, 2005 9:18 PM
I don't know?
I do know that if you watch Daylight The most beautiful train in the world DVD, you will see a Cab Forward assisting a GS-4 pulling a Daylight train.
But they were big frieght haulers.
Oh well...I have no clue.

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, December 24, 2005 2:21 PM
I was lucky enough to see a couple of cab forwards around Sacramento in the '50s while on a vacation with my parents. Quite an engine. Just think how hard it would be on the fireman if it were coal fired without a stoker. Climbing along the walk way of the AC with a shovel of coal while the engine is running at speed would not be fun. If my mind serves me corrctly a couple of the ACs were coal fired. Do not how the coal got the the firebox. Think all of tha ACs have been scrapped without none preserved in any museums. Hope I am wrong on this point. Does anyone know if one still exists? A couple of years ago i bought my son a MTH AC inO gauge. Even in this small size it still is beautiful.

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Posted by canazar on Saturday, December 24, 2005 5:47 PM
To my knowledge, there is only one "complete" left. (well, complete in its atleast 100% outside) I think it is a late version. Its at a musem in California.

Best Regards, Big John

Kiva Valley Railway- Freelanced road in central Arizona.  Visit the link to see my MR forum thread on The Building of the Whitton Branch on the  Kiva Valley Railway

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:51 PM
The only AC's which were coalburners were the Lima-built AC-9's in the 3800 series, which were not cab-forwards. All of the cab-forwards were oil fired, nothing else would work with the tender attached at the smokebox end.
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Posted by chad thomas on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 1:01 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by canazar

To my knowledge, there is only one "complete" left. (well, complete in its atleast 100% outside) I think it is a late version. Its at a musem in California.


Yes, There is a beautifully restored (cosmeticaly anyway) cab forward at the Cal State Rail museum in Sac.
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Posted by mloik on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 3:38 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

QUOTE: Originally posted by canazar

To my knowledge, there is only one "complete" left. (well, complete in its atleast 100% outside) I think it is a late version. Its at a musem in California.


Yes, There is a beautifully restored (cosmeticaly anyway) cab forward at the Cal State Rail museum in Sac.


Indeed, and I took my 3-yr old son to see it two weeks ago. Always amazing to see it.

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