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Cameras are NOT trains

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Cameras are NOT trains
Posted by croteaudd on Tuesday, July 9, 2024 7:52 PM
Cameras are NOT trains, SO are cameras (that most railfans have and need) outlawed to be discussed at the forums?  TRAINS competition openly discusses cameras, so if camera discussions are outlaw here, it would seem TRAINS is only hurting themselves.
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, July 9, 2024 8:25 PM

Has anyone said you can't?  I know there are some prohibited topics I won't mention but as far as I know railfan photography and the "tools of the trade" for the same aren't one of them. 

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Posted by Backshop on Tuesday, July 9, 2024 8:40 PM

It's not what you say, it's how you say it...

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, July 9, 2024 9:24 PM

I've never seen any dissention regarding mention of cameras.

I would opine that such a discussion, as it applies to railfanning, is certainly most appropriate.

I'm sure there are camps that would take exception to the use of cell phones, vs an SLR, f'rinstance, but we get that type of thing anyhow.

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Posted by Backshop on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 6:33 AM

I believe he is referring to one of his old threads where he dissed the camera makers because they didn't make the exact camera he wanted and they would go out of business because of it.  Also, he had a certain way to take pictures that was superior to anyone elses. Like I said--it's not what you say, but how you say it.

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 12:12 PM

Backshop
I believe he is referring to one of his old threads...

Ahh - now I recall.

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Posted by Steven Otte on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 1:02 PM

For a subject to be on-topic, it must relate to trains. So if you want to talk about why certain cameras are good for taking pictures of trains, that's on topic. But if you just want to talk about which cameras are best, that isn't. It's a fine distinction, but a necessary one. Otherwise, we'd have to allow people to talk about what kind of cars are best to drive to a railfanning spot and which fast-food chain is best to pick up lunch to eat while you're there. You get it.

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 1:36 PM

Steven Otte
For a subject to be on-topic, it must relate to trains. So if you want to talk about why certain cameras are good for taking pictures of trains, that's on topic. But if you just want to talk about which cameras are best, that isn't. It's a fine distinction, but a necessary one. Otherwise, we'd have to allow people to talk about what kind of cars are best to drive to a railfanning spot and which fast-food chain is best to pick up lunch to eat while you're there. You get it.

Watch a Danny Harmon 'Distant Signal' YouTube video - Danny is the Gold Standard for railfan videos.

As demonstrated, no Railfan Expedition is conducted with a continual empty stomach.  Eating places 'close to the action' are a intrinsic element of railfaning unless you railfan location is from your back porch.

Support and let others know of the 'non-chain' local eating establishments - for other railfans information.  Some railfan locations become favorites because of the gustatory options that are near the site.  In some cases, these places may be where train crews stop to eat when they have the opportunity.  

 

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Posted by Backshop on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 1:47 PM

I've been in a couple of great restaurants in old train stations.  First one was the Gandy Dancer in Ann Arbor, MI.  Several weeks ago, while visiting a college roommate of my wife's in Hartford, CT, we stopped by the Steaming Tender in Palmer, MA. I think Trains has written about it.  We were near Tamaqua on the same trip but it wasn't mealtime so we missed the restaurant there.  I'm going to try again on my next trip to the area in mid August.

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Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 2:49 PM

BaltACD
Watch a Danny Harmon 'Distant Signal' YouTube video - Danny is the Gold Standard for railfan videos.

I've watched some of his stuff.  It's decent, but I can't get over his "royal Pentrex voice". Just a bit too much for me. 

The gold standard for me is all words - no talking. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by croteaudd on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 3:04 PM

Steven Otte

For a subject to be on-topic, it must relate to trains. So if you want to talk about why certain cameras are good for taking pictures of trains, that's on topic. But if you just want to talk about which cameras are best, that isn't. It's a fine distinction, but a necessary one. Otherwise, we'd have to allow people to talk about what kind of cars are best to drive to a railfanning spot and which fast-food chain is best to pick up lunch to eat while you're there. You get it.

 
Steven Otte:

Thank you for the clarification, but that clarification in itself can be confusing.

In photography, the essence of a good photo is correct exposure, but what is a correct exposure?  Some photos I’ve seen in TRAINS of late have much to be desired, and I’ve concluded photo takers depend too much on their camera’s light meter!

It is unfortunate there isn’t a Photo and Camera section to our forums, because to assist others to take correctly exposed train photo is basically off topic.  That becomes a super irony, because what would extremely benefit TRAINS and the readership is off topic and post-prohibited!

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 3:45 PM

Is Danny Harmon the dharmon of the Detective Cinderdick saga?

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Posted by Ulrich on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 4:00 PM

BaltACD

 

 
Steven Otte
For a subject to be on-topic, it must relate to trains. So if you want to talk about why certain cameras are good for taking pictures of trains, that's on topic. But if you just want to talk about which cameras are best, that isn't. It's a fine distinction, but a necessary one. Otherwise, we'd have to allow people to talk about what kind of cars are best to drive to a railfanning spot and which fast-food chain is best to pick up lunch to eat while you're there. You get it.

 

Watch a Danny Harmon 'Distant Signal' YouTube video - Danny is the Gold Standard for railfan videos.

As demonstrated, no Railfan Expedition is conducted with a continual empty stomach.  Eating places 'close to the action' are a intrinsic element of railfaning unless you railfan location is from your back porch.

Support and let others know of the 'non-chain' local eating establishments - for other railfans information.  Some railfan locations become favorites because of the gustatory options that are near the site.  In some cases, these places may be where train crews stop to eat when they have the opportunity.  

 

 

I take pictures with my iphone, pack a sandwich, and usually bike it to Bayview Junction, my favourite train watching location. Makes for a fun day and very cheap. 

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Posted by Backshop on Wednesday, July 10, 2024 4:59 PM

Ulrich

I take pictures with my iphone, pack a sandwich, and usually bike it to Bayview Junction, my favourite train watching location. Makes for a fun day and very cheap. 

You sound sorta like me.  Back in the old days, I had my Nikon camera with multiple lenses and only shot K64 film.  I've had quite a few pictures published in Morning Sun books after I donated my work but now the smartphone is all I need.  I just take pics to remind me of places I've been.  I have no need or desire to be published.

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Posted by croteaudd on Friday, July 12, 2024 9:51 PM

Steven Otte:

I’m sorry Steve, but your clarification post was an incredibly, well, weird one and hardly enlightening!  ALL cameras can take photos of trains, BUT to take a train photo under certain conditions perhaps needs a more elaborate discussion on light, which could be misinterpreted as off-topic, and thus removed.  Such a poster that spent considerable time in composing such post to help their fellow forumists will think twice about using the TRAINS forums again, or even buying it’s books, etc.

Photos and cameras are so intertwined with trains it seems a post subject classification on such would be beneficial.

It is not clear if others feel that way too, so it would be nice if others would input their ideas.

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Posted by Euclid on Saturday, July 13, 2024 10:12 AM
I assume that the forum rules pertaining to the discussion of cameras confine discussion to cameras being applied specifically to railroad subjects.  This would include all practice of photographing railroad subjects related to all railroads worldwide, and even on the moon. 
 
Within this railroad subject context; it would also include pros and cons of camera equipment, and all camera use and photographic technique.
 
Incidentally, to one specific point, in my opinion; exposure is not the only objective that matters, and it is also not necessarily the most important objective. Railroad photography is widely used to produce the best rendition of the subject, and this can amount to filling the frame with the railroad subject in the best lighting and sharpest and most extensive detail possible.  In this sense, the photo takes on the visual representation of the subject just as a physical scale model does.
 
But railroad photography often seeks to capture the subject in its emotional feel which is certainly a part of the train watching experience.  This can be taken to any level desired.  I think it is possible to take it too far such as in techniques of placing other subjects in the photo such as animals in the foreground.  Of course, this is artistic license, but in art, a cardinal rule is to have only one subject. 
 
In this emotional objective, photography is practiced mostly according to the rules of fine art practice of illustration.  In that realm, generally the most important technique objective is “Composition.”   That is what the photographer chooses to include or exclude from the image frame.
 
For example, the location of the subject within the frame creates feelings which can enhance the subject, or detract from it.  Composition also is used to lead the eye into the image from where it follows a path to the subject.   
 
I think all of this is a legitimate topic for forum discussion here.  It is certainly a part of Trains and related magazines.  It has also been discussed extensively in the magazine over the years.  Once it even got into a controversy between DPM and CB&Q over whether a passenger train engineer in a photograph should be shown smoking a cigar. 
 
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Posted by York1 on Saturday, July 13, 2024 10:21 AM

croteaudd
I’m sorry Steve, but your clarification post was an incredibly, well, weird one and hardly enlightening! ... Photos and cameras are so intertwined with trains it seems a post subject classification on such would be beneficial. It is not clear if others feel that way too, so it would be nice if others would input their ideas.

 

Mr. Otte is correct.  And his post wasn't "weird".

This is a model railroad site.  There can be discussions of photography and trains, but to have a separate section strictly for photography and cameras doesn't fit.

There are many photography sites you can use for your interest in photography.

If you don't want that, you can start a thread on this forum for photographing trains.  As long as you stay on topic, the thread will be allowed.  You started a fairly lengthy thread on the topic a while back.

York1 John       

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, July 13, 2024 10:31 AM

York1
 
croteaudd
I’m sorry Steve, but your clarification post was an incredibly, well, weird one and hardly enlightening! ... Photos and cameras are so intertwined with trains it seems a post subject classification on such would be beneficial. It is not clear if others feel that way too, so it would be nice if others would input their ideas. 

Mr. Otte is correct.  And his post wasn't "weird".

This is a model railroad site.  There can be discussions of photography and trains, but to have a separate section strictly for photography and cameras doesn't fit.

There are many photography sites you can use for your interest in photography.

If you don't want that, you can start a thread on this forum for photographing trains.  As long as you stay on topic, the thread will be allowed.  You started a fairly lengthy thread on the topic a while back.

The Trains forum IS NOT a model railroad site.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by York1 on Saturday, July 13, 2024 2:15 PM

BaltACD

 

 
York1
 
croteaudd
I’m sorry Steve, but your clarification post was an incredibly, well, weird one and hardly enlightening! ... Photos and cameras are so intertwined with trains it seems a post subject classification on such would be beneficial. It is not clear if others feel that way too, so it would be nice if others would input their ideas. 

Mr. Otte is correct.  And his post wasn't "weird".

This is a model railroad site.  There can be discussions of photography and trains, but to have a separate section strictly for photography and cameras doesn't fit.

There are many photography sites you can use for your interest in photography.

If you don't want that, you can start a thread on this forum for photographing trains.  As long as you stay on topic, the thread will be allowed.  You started a fairly lengthy thread on the topic a while back.

 

The Trains forum IS NOT a model railroad site.

 

 

OK, OK, the heat got to me.  I can fix it.

"This is a TRAINS site."

York1 John       

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Posted by croteaudd on Saturday, July 13, 2024 10:41 PM

York1

 

 
croteaudd
 
I’m sorry Steve, but your clarification post was an incredibly, well, weird one and hardly enlightening! ... Photos and cameras are so intertwined with trains it seems a post subject classification on such would be beneficial. It is not clear if others feel that way too, so it would be nice if others would input their ideas.

 

 

Mr. Otte is correct.  And his post wasn't "weird".

This is a model railroad site.  There can be discussions of photography and trains, but to have a separate section strictly for photography and cameras doesn't fit.

There are many photography sites you can use for your interest in photography.

If you don't want that, you can start a thread on this forum for photographing trains.  As long as you stay on topic, the thread will be allowed.  You started a fairly lengthy thread on the topic a while back.

 

York1:

Your opinion and my opinion are strongly entrenched, thus, are not likely to change.  Time tends to change views, however.  It will be interesting to see what we both will think in 20 years, and how easy or hard we both will experience in finding answers to our questions to things in life.  Of course, I suppose troublemakers and hate mongers will always be with us.  It should be most fascinating to see who excels and who is helpless in dealing with them.

Have a great evening!

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Posted by Backshop on Sunday, July 14, 2024 7:08 AM

croteaudd
   Time tends to change views, however.  It will be interesting to see what we both will think in 20 years, and how easy or hard we both will experience in finding answers to our questions to things in life.  Of course, I suppose troublemakers and hate mongers will always be with us.  It should be most fascinating to see who excels and who is helpless in dealing with them. 

TBH, the only thing that most of us forum participants will be in twenty years is DEAD.

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, July 14, 2024 7:41 AM

Lets remember the cardinal rule of today's age -

If you don't have a picture, it didn't happen.

How one gets the picture is a critical element.

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Posted by Euclid on Sunday, July 14, 2024 8:26 AM
So the moderator says it is okay to talk about the best camera equipment to photograph trains.  Then what is the issue here?  Is somebody insisting that the forum should allow people to discuss the pros and cons of camera equipment without any connection to the objective of photographing trains?
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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, July 14, 2024 5:26 PM

Backshop
croteaudd

Such a poster that spent considerable time in composing such post to help their fellow forumists will think twice about using the TRAINS forums again, or even buying it’s books, etc. 

There you go again.  Do you even know how you sound?

At least it isn't in the passive voice too.

Discussion of camera operation and technique with clear reference to the aspects related to 'better train pictures' is always going to be on topic.

Something that isn't is a magical mystery tour around how certain cameras operate, and how certain posters disagree with that operation without actually indicating the reasons they disagree.  That might be interesting on a camera version of the old Ampex forum... but not in a community of friends.

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Posted by Col Bob on Tuesday, July 16, 2024 2:30 AM

croteaudd
SO are cameras (that most railfans have and need)

Nobody "needs" a camera to railfan. it is quite possible enjoy rrailfanning without a camera as you concentrate on the train and not the camera. Try it some time

 

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Posted by Col Bob on Tuesday, July 16, 2024 2:35 AM

Nothing is stopping you from setting up and running such a site. THis may be news, but taking photos is NOT an essential part of the railfan experience for a lot of people

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Posted by Col Bob on Tuesday, July 16, 2024 2:36 AM

I, for one, do NOT agree with any of your posts

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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, July 16, 2024 12:50 PM

Col Bob
Nobody "needs" a camera to railfan. it is quite possible enjoy rrailfanning without a camera as you concentrate on the train and not the camera. Try it some time

This site in particular seems less interested in photos/videos vs words. 

Used to be a few people that would promote their stuff, but they move on due to lack of people actually watching their stuff.  Not enough clicks for the effort, I guess.  Esp. when it is people that never post anything else except to show off their channels.   

 

Like and subscribe.  And hit that bell.  And click that Ko-fi link. Become a sponsor. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, July 16, 2024 3:58 PM

zugmann
This site in particular seems less interested in photos/videos vs words. 

Partly due to the process for posting images here.  I used to post some, but the site I used is gone.

One could argue that scanners aren't trains, too, but, like cameras, they are a tool railfans use.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Backshop on Tuesday, July 16, 2024 4:42 PM

tree68

One could argue that scanners aren't trains, too, but, like cameras, they are a tool railfans use.

It's funny---when I'm being a boatnerd, I use AIS info all the time while I've never used a scanner too much while railfanning. They kinda serve the same purpose.

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