What a mess, hope the crew are OK —
[update] Found an aerial view of the scene:
Regards, Ed
The video in the first link vividly shows the impact with the concrete beam being transported. It would seem that for this to have happened, the truck must have been fouling the crossing for an relatively long time. I wonder if they had any flagging and communication with the railroad about the trains that were nearby.
I wonder if the truck was delayed by traffic stalled ahead of it, or by a road route turn than proved difficult to negotiate. Something unforseen must have happened once the truck committed to cross and was fouling the track.
Totally uncalled for under any circumstance.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Euclid I wonder if the truck was delayed by traffic stalled ahead of it, or by a road route turn than proved difficult to negotiate. Something unforseen must have happened once the truck committed to cross and was fouling the track.
EuclidI wonder if the truck was delayed by traffic stalled ahead of it, or by a road route turn than proved difficult to negotiate
Judging from the roads and the direction he was pointing, the latter is unlikely.
He was going this direction (the bridge is now open) https://goo.gl/maps/odU8TX1j5B4e2Gaj6 There's about 450 feet of straight until an intersection.
I'm assuming that he was planning on making a left turn when he got to the T insection just north of that spot. It is a pretty broad left, greater than 90 degrees, as it is not a true T. I'm basing this on the construction in the area. About a half mile west of there, there's a decently sized bridge project (https://goo.gl/maps/NedFV3EveyEjdybPA). The Streetview imagery is only about six months old, so I don't think it is much of a stretch to think they're still working on that particular bridge.
Upon further investigation, it looks like one of the major points of the construction project was to eliminate the S bend and grade crossing where this happened in the first place.
BaltACD Totally uncalled for under any circumstance.
(1) Assume there was a pilot car involved?
(2) If the truck was there a while, nobody heeded the ENS sign / number?
(3) DOT # 719 677F / Ex Southern - Accident history is all in the 1980's (4 incidents w/ 2 fatals and two injured) ....would not be surprised if there is a joint OSHA/FRA/NHTSB investigation on this one (plenty of fails - multiple people at fault including the truck driver)
Yes, of course. My only thought was that it seems doubtfull that he was trying to beat the train with that ponderous special load and probably extra spotters driving before and behind him.
What seems possible is that he was given the all-clear to cross and he saw it was clear. Then he started to cross and something happened that prevented him from continuing until he had fully crossed.
One of the trailer dollies became a fulcrum and lifted the tractor's driving wheels off the ground on the other end of the beam (no traction)
I see the truck was moving about 2 mph when it was struck. It appeared just be drifting without acceleration or deceleration.
Aunt Myrtle was confused by all the flashing lights and people with flags, so she just sat there...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
The news accounts calling it a derailment is a spectacular understatement.
Rick
rixflix aka Captain Video. Blessed be Jean Shepherd and all His works!!! Hooray for 1939, the all time movie year!!! I took that ride on the Reading but my Baby caught the Katy and left me a mule to ride.
More footage. Shows the truck without the TV logo
Euclid BaltACD Totally uncalled for under any circumstance. Yes, of course. My only thought was that it seems doubtfull that he was trying to beat the train with that ponderous special load and probably extra spotters driving before and behind him. What seems possible is that he was given the all-clear to cross and he saw it was clear. Then he started to cross and something happened that prevented him from continuing until he had fully crossed.
Oversized loads, such as a 134 foot long concrete I-beam need special permits to be moved - part of the permitting process is to map out the SPECIFIC route that the load will traverse and all the potential problems on that route.
In my experience, hundreds of these kinds of loads were transported at many locations that were my responsibility. In most cases, the carrier hauling the item would notify the railroad of the road crossings involved and a preliminary ETA at the affected crossing(s). Before making the crossing the railroad was contacted AGAIN to say the load was AT the crossing and in position to cross with the railroad holding trains until the load reported clear of the crossing(s).
In cases where the railroad WASN'T contacted there were catastrophic outcomes.
rixflix The news accounts calling it a derailment is a spectacular understatement. Rick
Two things:
You don't see an escort vehicle in the first video.
The news "people" were more concerned about a few thousand gallons of spilled diesel fuel than the persons involved.
Does anyone know the symbol of the train involved? Those loco numbers look familiar, as in I saw them this week go by the house.
BaltACD Euclid BaltACD Totally uncalled for under any circumstance. Yes, of course. My only thought was that it seems doubtfull that he was trying to beat the train with that ponderous special load and probably extra spotters driving before and behind him. What seems possible is that he was given the all-clear to cross and he saw it was clear. Then he started to cross and something happened that prevented him from continuing until he had fully crossed. Oversized loads, such as a 134 foot long concrete I-beam need special permits to be moved - part of the permitting process is to map out the SPECIFIC route that the load will traverse and all the potential problems on that route. In my experience, hundreds of these kinds of loads were transported at many locations that were my responsibility. In most cases, the carrier hauling the item would notify the railroad of the road crossings involved and a preliminary ETA at the affected crossing(s). Before making the crossing the railroad was contacted AGAIN to say the load was AT the crossing and in position to cross with the railroad holding trains until the load reported clear of the crossing(s). In cases where the railroad WASN'T contacted there were catastrophic outcomes.
Balt is correct! Oversized Loads (especially: Permitted Transport Loads) require the prtocess he described (for sure, it was the rule in Tenn.) The Precast Cncrete Beam being transported, may have only been 134' in length, but the total of vehicle, and load, would have probably added much more length to a total.
Normally, an escort(s?) would be provided/demanded?, by the 'Permit' issued by the 'controling State agency. In many juristictions, a presence of some law enforcement, is also requested or provoded(?).. In each case the transport, size of cargo, and route tend to govern the specifics of 'escorts'...
From the looks of the videos, this incident will get $$$$$, and very ugly, before it gets 'settled'...IMHO.
[ P.S. Not sure of current regs, for 'notifications', involving permits and processes. But it used to be an addendum to the issued permit; generally, was the 'senior'(?) escort/pilot-car operator's job to make the 'special notifications'. In this discussed incident; if it was only a const. company move(?) it may get very merky.]
Oh, make that 4 "problems" with IT. Quick Reply feature does not seem to work. One thread commentor commented on all the legalities that are required for the transport of a big load.........no comment by him of the RR being contacted. Should police escort call RR? Should the transport permit issurer call RR? Should pilot truck call RR? Sad to say, I would venture to say NO ONE called the RR. Thus IMHO ......this is the cause of the accident. endmrw2112221402
rrnut282 Two things: You don't see an escort vehicle in the first video. The news "people" were more concerned about a few thousand gallons of spilled diesel fuel than the persons involved. Does anyone know the symbol of the train involved? Those loco numbers look familiar, as in I saw them this week go by the house.
Given the fact that someone was able to set up film with their phone lends it to the thought that the truck was fouling the tracks for some time.
The pilot cars are probably in Mexico by now :)
Let us do some scrap piece of paper calculations. The margins of errors may be over 100%. At 1 mph speed is 88 ft per minute, 2 MPH 176 feet per minute, 3 MPH 264 feet per minute. Length of this load 134 feet + length of tow truck = Probably at least 4 drive axels = 32 + steers = ? ~ 20 feet.
So a non specific length all told =180 - 190 feet. So at 2 MPH over the crossing takes some 60 + seconds. Even 3 MPH not fast enough. Regular crossing timing is what 25 seconds. The train hit about mid point of the bridge beam. Sound about right?? So to cross any RR must call to receive clearance to cross RR. Otherwise a driver just throwing the dice and every once in a while will throw snake eyes,
IMO this driver must thank his stars that the load detached from the tow truck -- otherwise #^*+"
blue streak 1Let us do some scrap piece of paper calculations. The margins of errors may be over 100%. At 1 mph speed is 88 ft per minute, 2 MPH 176 feet per minute, 3 MPH 264 feet per minute. Length of this load 134 feet + length of tow truck = Probably at least 4 drive axels = 32 + steers = ? ~ 20 feet. So a non specific length all told =180 - 190 feet. So at 2 MPH over the crossing takes some 60 + seconds. Even 3 MPH not fast enough. Regular crossing timing is what 25 seconds. The train hit about mid point of the bridge beam. Sound about right?? So to cross any RR must call to receive clearance to cross RR. Otherwise a driver just throwing the dice and every once in a while will throw snake eyes, IMO this driver must thank his stars that the load detached from the tow truck -- otherwise #^*+"
One thing that has not been mentioned, to my knowledge. Most of the 'extra long' shipments of beams and similar objects have had steerable device on the rear of the object which, in those that I have personally seen, have had a individual on board doing the steering.
Recall driving North on I-95 through South Carolina in January one year when it was about 35 degrees and raining and passing four or five of these shipments with a steerable 'tillerman'. The steering device had a seat, a windshield, a steering wheel and noting else - the tillerman was otherwise exposed to the elements.
blue streak 1So a non specific length all told =180 - 190 feet. So at 2 MPH over the crossing takes some 60 + seconds. Even 3 MPH not fast enough. Regular crossing timing is what 25 seconds.
One of the news stories had an enlarged clip of video at the moment of collision. It looked to me as if the rear of the combination actually had a bogie on the crossing at the time of collision, and was moving deliberately and without any sort of jerking that might indicate difficulty in getting traction or turning. I would say that in no more than a few more seconds the rig might have cleared.
There is at least one YouTube video of a truck loaded with a wind-turbine blade negotiating right-angle farm turns, with what looks like a remotely-steered rear bogie set. I think there are a number of modern heavy-haul systems that have 'all-wheel steering' that is computer-assisted. That would not rule out a tillering station, but note that the visible portion of the rear end of this rig had six axles, all of which would have to be proportionally steerable.
EuclidAt some point, an escort ordered the driver to cross, and he proceeded to cross... The escort attention was entirely focused on what was happening ahead of the truck as this crossing action was carried out.
Usually, what I see the pilot cars concentrating on is making sure the clearances and traffic conditions are still as expected, and they can be up to several miles ahead of the actual move doing that, or whatever else they might need advance preparation to do. It will be highly interesting to find out what company was providing the escort service, and where the two cars actually were during the crossing.
OvermodThe driver is on record as saying he was surprised at being stopped by a traffic light.
A few more numbers: A reported 22 trains per day - 8 daytime (6A-6P), 14 night (6P-6A). From the DOT crossing database.
Accounting for only the head end, that means overall a 1 in 65 chance (using minutes) of having a train arrive at the crossing. Kind of a "what are the odds?" type of thing. And given the fact that the 8 trains in 12 hours might involve periods of well more than an hour with zero trains.
During the day, it's 1 in 90...
While the transport folks should have coordinated with the railroad, consider that this may not have been the first such move of a beam over this crossing. Clearly, any previous moves went off without incident - which would tend to create an air of complacency.
Speed limit over the crossing is 60 MPH. Average reported speed is 34-45 MPH.
Clearly, heads will roll. Fortunately, no lives were lost in the collision or the aftermath (ie, toxic hazmat).
Another updated look:
I wonder why the trucks didn't fall off the bulkhead flat car nearest the camera. I wouldn't think these have locking center pins like a locomotive or passenger car?
EuclidIt also seems to establish that the rule to not to start across tracks if you don't have room to completely clear them was impossible to comply with in the case of such a long vehicle as there was in this collision.
Overmod Euclid It also seems to establish that the rule to not to start across tracks if you don't have room to completely clear them was impossible to comply with in the case of such a long vehicle as there was in this collision. What it actually establishes is that a rule not to start across tracks if you don't have room to clear them means that you ENSURE you have room to clear them -- flagging, vehicles with lights at the crossing, hand controls to lock the traffic lights. All things an escort service either would have, or could provide, if they were professional.
Euclid It also seems to establish that the rule to not to start across tracks if you don't have room to completely clear them was impossible to comply with in the case of such a long vehicle as there was in this collision.
What it actually establishes is that a rule not to start across tracks if you don't have room to clear them means that you ENSURE you have room to clear them -- flagging, vehicles with lights at the crossing, hand controls to lock the traffic lights. All things an escort service either would have, or could provide, if they were professional.
That would suggest that there was no escort or flagging to assure there was room for the truck once he crossed the track. But it would not surprise me if the news report was wrong, and there actually was an escort to make sure there was room for the truck once he crossed.
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