Interesting article in Progrssive Railroading about various cross tie manufacturing techniques. The problems of getting good wood for ties is well kown. What find interesting is the use of recycled plastics. If claims of life at 60 years is true can understand class 1s reluctance to get any of the ones in the article.
Can we imagine if the costs were less than untreated cross ties. The many tourist roads would have a field day if they just replaced ever 3rd or fourth one. The claims of maintaing guage better would cut volunteer track work so they could do other works.
I have no ilussions that the claims may be bogus. If D&S RR, Stratsburg. and Steam town might try the ties under the pounding of steam locos then the class 1s might start acquiring them. The problem if they get approved then construction facilities to build them might take too much time.
Rail Insider-Product update: Concrete, steel and composite ties. Information For Rail Career Professionals From Progressive Railroading Magazine
The Adirondack RR is completing a major rehab - all with wood ties.
I suspect that this is not a "one size fits all" product. As the article alluded, each technology has some specific advantages for certain applications. And each technology has its shortcomings.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Buried near the end of the article is the real reason for the uptick in interest: the feedstock for wood ties is becoming increasingly difficult to 'source' as other requirements for timber build.
The advantages of composite ties were well-established when I was in college nearly 50 years ago. The problem then was cost; the problem today is cost. I suspect that most railroad management considers permanence 40 years from now, even with high inflation looming, is not worth buying with scarce finance capital today.
The whole fiasco with common concrete ties 'over the years' has not helped the alternative tie market. The 'keyway' system does not address issues of ties cracking when flanges run across in a derailment, or cracking when track panels are improperly lifted or moved or ballast problems develop under them. Steel ties are really only practical at all because of better elastomers and Pandrol clips for fixation. I'd be interested to see the patent information for the IntegriTies, including the component materials that are otherwise 'hard to recycle'.
Overmod Buried near the end of the article is the real reason for the uptick in interest: the feedstock for wood ties is becoming increasingly difficult to 'source' as other requirements for timber build. The advantages of composite ties were well-established when I was in college nearly 50 years ago. The problem then was cost; the problem today is cost. I suspect that most railroad management considers permanence 40 years from now, even with high inflation looming, is not worth buying with scarce finance capital today. The whole fiasco with common concrete ties 'over the years' has not helped the alternative tie market. The 'keyway' system does not address issues of ties cracking when flanges run across in a derailment, or cracking when track panels are improperly lifted or moved or ballast problems develop under them. Steel ties are really only practical at all because of better elastomers and Pandrol clips for fixation. I'd be interested to see the patent information for the IntegriTies, including the component materials that are otherwise 'hard to recycle'.
I have the Milwaukee Road track engineering diagrams from Chicago to Twin Cities. All along the mainline they had small sections where they were experimenting with different types of wood for ties (other than Oak) to see if they could get a few more years out of them one way or another. Rather interesting that was going on back in the 1930's and 1940's. They have all the experimental sections marked on their track engineering diagram.
A number of years ago, I came across an article about the Indian Railways researching the use of recycled plastic for railroad ties. I did some minor searching and found several companies exploring various formulas for making such ties but never saw much written up about US railroads interest in such ties.
OM: I would assume Vossloh is European. German Rail is largely using concrete Schwellen (sleepers) for years, though some defective ones showed up this year. Must we always reinvent the wheel?
Of course the problem may lie with inferior material in our concrete compared with that used there. One only need to drive on our disgraceful roads.
The Germans are certainly masters at the use of concrete. I can't help but think of the Autobahn, not to mention the WW2 structures such as bunkers, pillboxes, and flak towers still darn near as good today as they were when built 80 years ago.
charlie hebdo OM: I would assume Vossloh is European. German Rail is largely using concrete Schwellen (sleepers) for years, though some defective ones showed up this year. Must we always reinvent the wheel? Of course the problem may lie with inferior material in our concrete compared with that used there. One only need to drive on our disgraceful roads.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Speaking of secret ingredients....."avatar test".
FEC Presentation about Brightline upgrades discussing the use and manufacturing of concrete ties since 1971.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMsV_-6U6xo
CH: Vossloh is well established in the US. Has been for years. (they occupy a healthy site at CF&I/RMSM/Evraz in Pueblo....They own several old US names in the biz)
Also in Pueblo, the test track continues small test sections of wood and plastic composite ties. From what I'm told, it's mixed results and not an improvement on the conventional stuff (Timber, steel, wood)...might have limited use and keep open flame and the rail grinder away from them.
Mixed Plastic ties:
As coincidence wants it, about a week ago this topic was mentioned in german television:
There is at least one manufacturer in germany who produces plastic ties out of old mixed plastics (which cannot be recycled properly) and they are in regular use around germany (in limited numbers of course). The actual process is too expensive for the market (even against wooden ties as it seems) and the only way they can be profitable is to get subsidies out of the recycling fees (China and India do not want that stuff anymore and pressure grows to use it domestically).
Steel Ties in Europe
I do not know how steel ties ar built in the US, but in Europe there are in principle two types:
About the practical application: Y shaped ties are (in Switzerland at least) mostly used for metric gauge with very tight curves, even some scenic rack railways use them.
Plastic Ties in Switzerland
Plastic ties are (also in Switzerland) not that common, I do know from some applications for testing or applications with special constraints (problem was to get as flat ties as possible installed on concret slabs). I belive these application are of the japanese "artifical wood type" and not downcycled from mixed plastics.
Ties in General in Switzerland
I would say 90% of all new ties are concrete ties dies days (Standart Gauge). Due too the height of new concrete ties, they cannot replace wooden ties everywhere so in the last few years the varity of conrecte ties has increased and there are now beside the "regular" European types (B70 and B91) extra slime wones to reduce the number of wooden ties even further.
PS: Most links are in german, as I did not find references in english.
IMO: plastic ties might find limited acceptance if they improve lifespan in poorly drained areas where the roadbed rarely completely dries out. They will have to improve UV resistance to have a lifespan on the right side of the cost/life graph to find widespread acceptance in other areas.
CursatorMixed Plastic ties: As coincidence wants it, about a week ago this topic was mentioned in german television: There is at least one manufacturer in germany who produces plastic ties out of old mixed plastics (which cannot be recycled properly) and they are in regular use around germany (in limited numbers of course). The actual process is too expensive for the market (even against wooden ties as it seems) and the only way they can be profitable is to get subsidies out of the recycling fees (China and India do not want that stuff anymore and pressure grows to use it domestically). Steel Ties in Europe I do not know how steel ties ar built in the US, but in Europe there are in principle two types: Complex shape made by pressing sheetmetal into form, the rails (and racks) are either attached by cutting holes or adding welded plates. Y shaped ties, fabricated from I-beams About the practical application: Y shaped ties are (in Switzerland at least) mostly used for metric gauge with very tight curves, even some scenic rack railways use them. Plastic Ties in Switzerland Plastic ties are (also in Switzerland) not that common, I do know from some applications for testing or applications with special constraints (problem was to get as flat ties as possible installed on concret slabs). I belive these application are of the japanese "artifical wood type" and not downcycled from mixed plastics. Ties in General in Switzerland I would say 90% of all new ties are concrete ties dies days (Standart Gauge). Due too the height of new concrete ties, they cannot replace wooden ties everywhere so in the last few years the varity of conrecte ties has increased and there are now beside the "regular" European types (B70 and B91) extra slime wones to reduce the number of wooden ties even further. PS: Most links are in german, as I did not find references in english.
With 286K being the NORMAL allowed car weight on most all USA railroad owned trackage the question I have - What is the normal maximum loaded car weight in Europe? We alread know that Kilometer long train would be considered an overlength MONSTER if it were operated in Europe.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
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