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BNSF BIG (Barstow International Gateway)

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BNSF BIG (Barstow International Gateway)
Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Sunday, October 2, 2022 4:41 PM
 

It looks like the Alameda Corridor will finally be getting more utilization. BNSF is investing $1.5B into a new inland port with transloading capability. I believe this project will conicide with the new Pier B yard at the Port of Long Beach.

 

https://www.railwayage.com/freight/class-i/bnsf-going-big-in-barstow%ef%bf%bc/

 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by kgbw49 on Sunday, October 2, 2022 5:21 PM

Go big or go home.

Perhaps the SD70J will be the Y6b of the shuttle trains.

How many rail miles will it be from BIG to the Ports of LA/LB?

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Posted by Backshop on Sunday, October 2, 2022 5:49 PM

How much will they have to pay people to live in Barstow?  It's not exactly the vision that most think of when they think of Southern California...

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Posted by rdamon on Sunday, October 2, 2022 6:55 PM

And with the right earthquate, it will no longer be an inland port!

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Posted by kgbw49 on Sunday, October 2, 2022 9:39 PM

Victorville is not that far away. I have friends who have lived there and loved it.

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, October 2, 2022 10:06 PM

rdamon
And with the right earthquake, it will no longer be an inland port!

But, he'd have to go back to Annandale....

 

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Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, October 2, 2022 10:41 PM

SD60MAC9500
 

It looks like the Alameda Corridor will finally be getting more utilization. BNSF is investing $1.5B into a new inland port with transloading capability. I believe this project will conicide with the new Pier B yard at the Port of Long Beach.

 

https://www.railwayage.com/freight/class-i/bnsf-going-big-in-barstow%ef%bf%bc/

 
I found the current practices rather comical and also rather stupid to be designed that way to begin with.
 
1. Lets ship a container to Long Beach, offload from ship to a truck, drive it around the LA basin, transload the cargo to yet another container at an LA warehouse, then load it back on a train for shipment east.  I mean C'mon, who is in charge of these things at BNSF and UP?    Description in link below.
 
 
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Posted by charlie hebdo on Sunday, October 2, 2022 10:59 PM

Why transfer from shorter international containers to domestic 53 footers?  I see plenty of international containers coming in Chicago on UP

 

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Monday, October 3, 2022 10:29 AM
 

charlie hebdo

Why transfer from shorter international containers to domestic 53 footers?  I see plenty of international containers coming in Chicago on UP

 

 

Why? Because transloading is cheaper. Herer's the transload ratio;

4:3

      4x40'=160'

      3x53'=159'

Removing an extra box move save's money. Transloading allows better inventory control through deferment. Since retail inventory varies. This can achieve inventory balancing across DC and fulfillment center stock. The steamship lines also don't like their boxes venturing inland unless they have solicited a backhaul such as agri-business.

Mind you BNSF does has the largest share of IPI(Inland Point Intermodal) vs. UP. So while transloading is preffered. IPI moves (which mean no transloading takes place) where the box moves directly from Ship to an inland DC still has its place, and will continue to.

 
 
 
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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Monday, October 3, 2022 10:37 AM
 

CMStPnP

 

 
SD60MAC9500
 

It looks like the Alameda Corridor will finally be getting more utilization. BNSF is investing $1.5B into a new inland port with transloading capability. I believe this project will conicide with the new Pier B yard at the Port of Long Beach.

 

https://www.railwayage.com/freight/class-i/bnsf-going-big-in-barstow%ef%bf%bc/

 

 

 
I found the current practices rather comical and also rather stupid to be designed that way to begin with.
 
1. Lets ship a container to Long Beach, offload from ship to a truck, drive it around the LA basin, transload the cargo to yet another container at an LA warehouse, then load it back on a train for shipment east.  I mean C'mon, who is in charge of these things at BNSF and UP?    Description in link below.
 
 
 

A few of us have been advocating over the years for this to happen. Not only is the IE running out of real estate. BNSF and UP have very little room to build or expand current IM ramps. Hence why UP is slowly converting West Colton into its IE IM ramp. It won't be a full conversion as WC still plays an important role in Sou Cal carload business.. WC will probably morph into a mini-hump a la Livonia, Louisiana. 

 
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Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, October 3, 2022 10:47 AM

rdamon

And with the right earthquate, it will no longer be an inland port!

Wasn't that Lex Luthor's plan in the first Superman movie?

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Monday, October 3, 2022 11:24 AM
 

kgbw49

Go big or go home.

Perhaps the SD70J will be the Y6b of the shuttle trains.

How many rail miles will it be from BIG to the Ports of LA/LB?

 

About 130

 
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Posted by kgbw49 on Monday, October 3, 2022 11:32 AM

Thanks, '9500!

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Monday, October 3, 2022 11:33 AM

I mentioned in the Locomotives forum that I could also see this driving electricifcation in the Basin and potentially over Cajon...Not saying I'm bullish on that, but a 130mile route that is going to be a massively busy corridor with a lot of trains ending at Barstow is a pretty good test subject for electrification. 

Barstow isn't going to win any awards for California living. and the Traffic on I15 is already terrible, but It is convinent to Las Vegas and the Inland Empire while still being a day trip to LA. I don't think it will be that hard a sell. 

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Posted by YoHo1975 on Monday, October 3, 2022 11:39 AM

I recall when we first heard rumblings about an "Inland port" concept, there were a lot of naysayers saying that Barstow was too far away and such a thing would have to be in the Inland Empire. Clearly BNSF disagrees, but I wonder, those discussions seemed focus on the length of haul, the need to go over Cajon and the idea that and boxes destined for the basin would then be clogging up 15 moving back. But, Cajon is now triple tracked and this is going to, one assumes, reduce existing unit trains moving over cajon so that the traffic profile may not change all that much. Boxes destined for the Basin MIGHT be a problem, but you could probably also just run a train of domestic trailers back into the basin if that were actually an issue. PRobably not a super cost effective move in isolation, but possibly worth it on net. 

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Posted by rdamon on Monday, October 3, 2022 12:33 PM

I seem to remember BNSF purchasing this land many years ago with this in mind.

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Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Tuesday, October 4, 2022 2:11 AM

tree68
rdamon
And with the right earthquake, it will no longer be an inland port!

But, he'd have to go back to Annandale....

Heh!™ 

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Posted by kgbw49 on Tuesday, October 4, 2022 3:09 AM

From Barstow, he'd have to take the Southwest Chief back to Chicago, then the Wolverine to Detroit. Since the Wolverine now ends in Michigan rather than going through to New York as in New York Central days, and the Canadian Southern is no longer, Uber to Windsor. Then VIA to Niagara Falls, Uber to Buffalo, then either Empire Service or the Lake Shore Limited to Poughkeepsie. Then Uber to Bard College.

Well played, tree68. Well played indeed!

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Posted by CMStPnP on Tuesday, October 4, 2022 3:43 AM

SD60MAC9500
A few of us have been advocating over the years for this to happen. Not only is the IE running out of real estate. BNSF and UP have very little room to build or expand current IM ramps. Hence why UP is slowly converting West Colton into its IE IM ramp. It won't be a full conversion as WC still plays an important role in Sou Cal carload business.. WC will probably morph into a mini-hump a la Livonia, Louisiana. 

It seems to me that if either railroad knew the clients business a little better.   And both railroads should be asking detailed questions to learn their clients business so they can tailor their service levels better.   This whole practice could have been resolved a lot sooner and more efficiently at far less cost.   To me this seems very reactive vs proactive and only reacting when the situation becomes an obvious logjam.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, October 4, 2022 10:26 AM

CMStPnP
To me this seems very reactive vs proactive and only reacting when the situation becomes an obvious logjam.

Haven't you read about the "Internet" model of design, where you wait for problems to become insurmountable or 'emergent' before you design ad hoc fixes that cost as little as possible... then lather, rinse, repeat for the next time? Dunce

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Tuesday, October 4, 2022 11:08 AM
 

YoHo1975

I mentioned in the Locomotives forum that I could also see this driving electricifcation in the Basin and potentially over Cajon...Not saying I'm bullish on that, but a 130mile route that is going to be a massively busy corridor with a lot of trains ending at Barstow is a pretty good test subject for electrification. 

Barstow isn't going to win any awards for California living. and the Traffic on I15 is already terrible, but It is convinent to Las Vegas and the Inland Empire while still being a day trip to LA. I don't think it will be that hard a sell. 

 

A few things. I imagine most of the traffic to BIG will ride in existing trains. Such as UP is currently doing from POLB-SLC. It probably isn't worth the investment to keep a different set of locos for a supposed electrification of Cajon Pass. The big benefit will be the reduction of dray moves between the IE and POLA/POLB.

Also once UP starts building out more of its WC IM ramp. This will reduce fuel use, dray cost, and help with traffic congestion somewhat. 

 
 
 
 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Tuesday, October 4, 2022 11:11 AM
 

rdamon

I seem to remember BNSF purchasing this land many years ago with this in mind.

 

The original location was to be Victorville, but that didn't pan out.

 
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Posted by rdamon on Tuesday, October 4, 2022 11:26 AM

SD60MAC9500
 

 

 
rdamon

I seem to remember BNSF purchasing this land many years ago with this in mind.

 

 

 

The original location was to be Victorville, but that didn't pan out.

 
 

Wasn't that a different group trying to build something at the former George AFB site?

You can see the initial construction on Google Earth

 

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Tuesday, October 4, 2022 4:00 PM
 

rdamon

 

 
SD60MAC9500
 

 

 
rdamon

I seem to remember BNSF purchasing this land many years ago with this in mind.

 

 

 

The original location was to be Victorville, but that didn't pan out.

 
 

 

 

Wasn't that a different group trying to build something at the former George AFB site?

You can see the initial construction on Google Earth

 

 

It was suppose to be a joint project between BNSF and another entity. BNSF signed a letter of intent. That's about all it amounted too.

Here's an old news link on the then proposed SCRC(Southern California Rail Complex) https://www.progressiverailroading.com/rail_industry_trends/news/New-intermodal-terminal-at-southern-California-airport-on-BNSFs-agenda--3071

 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by YoHo1975 on Tuesday, October 4, 2022 9:30 PM

SD60MAC9500
 

 

A few things. I imagine most of the traffic to BIG will ride in existing trains. Such as UP is currently doing from POLB-SLC. It probably isn't worth the investment to keep a different set of locos for a supposed electrification of Cajon Pass. The big benefit will be the reduction of dray moves between the IE and POLA/POLB.

Also once UP starts building out more of its WC IM ramp. This will reduce fuel use, dray cost, and help with traffic congestion somewhat. 

 
 
 
 
 

 

Which existing trains? How would that even work? There aren't currently trains moving from PoLA/LB to Barstow. I would imagine that some portion of intermodal trains that formerly originated and terminated in the basin would now terminate in Barstow. Shuttle trains from the port to Barstow would be all new trains. 

Or are you suggesting trains that currently handle drayage within the basin (not many of those I imagine) would now do the same to Barstow? But even then, a local in the basin doesn't have the same power requirements as a unit train climbing the pass. 

So yeah, dedicated locomotives COULD make a lot of sense in this service.

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Wednesday, October 5, 2022 12:24 PM
 

YoHo1975

 

 
SD60MAC9500
 

 

A few things. I imagine most of the traffic to BIG will ride in existing trains. Such as UP is currently doing from POLB-SLC. It probably isn't worth the investment to keep a different set of locos for a supposed electrification of Cajon Pass. The big benefit will be the reduction of dray moves between the IE and POLA/POLB.

Also once UP starts building out more of its WC IM ramp. This will reduce fuel use, dray cost, and help with traffic congestion somewhat. 

 
 
 
 
 

 

 

 

Which existing trains? How would that even work? There aren't currently trains moving from PoLA/LB to Barstow. I would imagine that some portion of intermodal trains that formerly originated and terminated in the basin would now terminate in Barstow. Shuttle trains from the port to Barstow would be all new trains. 

Or are you suggesting trains that currently handle drayage within the basin (not many of those I imagine) would now do the same to Barstow? But even then, a local in the basin doesn't have the same power requirements as a unit train climbing the pass. 

So yeah, dedicated locomotives COULD make a lot of sense in this service.

 

I'm sure you are familair with pre-blocking. Which has been pretty numerous under "PSR"... Exisitng trains.. Trains that already originate in the Basin and flow through the Barstow Terminal would SO/PU blocks from, to POLA/POLB. UP is doing this now for traffic to be setout at SLC.

 
 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Wednesday, October 5, 2022 12:28 PM
 

CMStPnP

 

 
SD60MAC9500
A few of us have been advocating over the years for this to happen. Not only is the IE running out of real estate. BNSF and UP have very little room to build or expand current IM ramps. Hence why UP is slowly converting West Colton into its IE IM ramp. It won't be a full conversion as WC still plays an important role in Sou Cal carload business.. WC will probably morph into a mini-hump a la Livonia, Louisiana. 

 

It seems to me that if either railroad knew the clients business a little better.   And both railroads should be asking detailed questions to learn their clients business so they can tailor their service levels better.   This whole practice could have been resolved a lot sooner and more efficiently at far less cost.   To me this seems very reactive vs proactive and only reacting when the situation becomes an obvious logjam.

 

One was a matter of cost. Making the shorthaul feasible. I'll add Gene Seroka the current Port Director at POLA isn't about creating efficiency. He does more PR stunts than produce actual remedies for POLA issues..

 
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Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, October 5, 2022 1:15 PM

SD60MAC9500
He does more PR stunts than produce actual remedies for POLA issues..

So sad when you get someone in an important position that views shameless self promotion as a higher priority than actual results.     Seen that more than I care too in my life.    Usually always a politician or government appointee.

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Posted by samfp1943 on Thursday, October 6, 2022 6:33 PM

Kind of a note: recently, I've observed 'our' morning train{used to be some JBH double stacks followed by a plethora of [many reefers, and some CC vans]TOFC's on the 'tail'; last several days; it has come through with a number of double stacked JBH 53 cans  on its' tail'.. Can they already be shipping re-loads out of BIG now?

Someoe mentioned, it was approx 130 miles from the PofLA to BIG, do not forget that just West of KC's Argentine Yard is  the BNSF's Logistics Park at Gardner, Kansas;  it is an origin/ destination for many of BNSF's East orWest bound stackers (Domestic and Import-Export stuff). At a recent time, it was touted as KC's 'Inland Port' (?)Laugh

 

 


 

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Friday, October 7, 2022 12:41 PM

Perhaps I am missing something so let me ask what actually happens. Are the smaller international shipping containers transported to Barstow, taken off flatcars, contents unloaded and then packed into longer larger domestic containers? How is that more efficient?

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