There is a lot of anger amongst the T&E employees who believe that the Union leaders have sold them out on Quality of Life issues. They are deeply impressed with the one additional Personal Leave Day (NOT). The three days available for Medical Appointments must be scheduled thirty days in advance and must be on a Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday only. Another very big concern is the Self-relieving pools. One Engineer related that he was expecting 16 hours off based on trains expected, he checked back in two hours later and he was first out, as a large number of crews were needed to Dog-catch trains that died on the law. There is a good chance that the contract will be voted down. The sentiment is that Union leadership needs to be sacked. If the contract is crammed down expect that the steady stream of resignations will continue.
Yawn
Lots of drama. The only easy way someone can control you is if they have something you want, and threaten to withhold it unless you cooperate.
And why anyone would even want a job where they treat you like you're an 8 year old, as part of the standard routine, is beyond me.
Years ago I remember discussing here aspects of working for the railroad that roughly key in to what are now being called "QOL" issues, and was pretty much told that unless one worked for the railroad, we were too ignorant to understand. Almost as if they were saying that the sacrifice of personal life created some odd esprit de corps that only an insider could appreciate.
I guess that has changed now.
Convicted OneAnd why anyone would even want a job where they treat you like you're an 8 year old, as part of the standard routine, is beyond me.
It was kind of getting like that at the job I retired from. When a buy-out was offered to the 65-and-older geezers like me who'd been on the job for years we were glad to take it, assuming we'd be replaced by new people who didn't know any better.
We took the offer, walked out the door, and didn't look back.
Convicted One Lots of drama. The only easy way someone can control you is if they have something you want, and threaten to withhold it unless you cooperate. And why anyone would even want a job where they treat you like you're an 8 year old, as part of the standard routine, is beyond me. Years ago I remember discussing here aspects of working for the railroad that roughly key in to what are now being called "QOL" issues, and was pretty much told that unless one worked for the railroad, we were too ignorant to understand. Almost as if they were saying that the sacrifice of personal life created some odd esprit de corps that only an insider could appreciate. I guess that has changed now.
Some of this is what motivated me to bet the farm as they say and try my hand at running a franchise which I still am grateful I had the opportunity to do and could do again if I wanted.
As I see it, if you have only had 1 main job in your life and it dominates your work history. It is tough, psychologically to let it go and move to something else. It also takes a lot of self motivation and effort to switch to a new career as well. One of the worst employers I ever worked for was Verizon but also it was the one I spent the most of my life working for so far. Because I was in a comfort zone relatively of a low stress job where deadlines did not really matter that much. The job had other stresses like some incredibly stupid people I had to work with but I could tolerate that and reduce my contact as much as possible with those people. Not only that but I got some pretty good evaluations and pay increases with that specific job. So it was hard to leave and I just hung around and waited for the inevitable layoff as I wanted the seperation package. Which I got 8 years after hire. Looking back now, I kind of wished I left them after 4 years as that was the last time I did anything really challenging there and the last 4 years were really a waste. Oh well though, can't fix it now.
CMStPnP Convicted One Lots of drama. The only easy way someone can control you is if they have something you want, and threaten to withhold it unless you cooperate. And why anyone would even want a job where they treat you like you're an 8 year old, as part of the standard routine, is beyond me. Years ago I remember discussing here aspects of working for the railroad that roughly key in to what are now being called "QOL" issues, and was pretty much told that unless one worked for the railroad, we were too ignorant to understand. Almost as if they were saying that the sacrifice of personal life created some odd esprit de corps that only an insider could appreciate. I guess that has changed now. Some of this is what motivated me to bet the farm as they say and try my hand at running a franchise which I still am grateful I had the opportunity to do and could do again if I wanted. As I see it, if you have only had 1 main job in your life and it dominates your work history. It is tough, psychologically to let it go and move to something else. It also takes a lot of self motivation and effort to switch to a new career as well. One of the worst employers I ever worked for was Verizon but also it was the one I spent the most of my life working for so far. Because I was in a comfort zone relatively of a low stress job where deadlines did not really matter that much. The job had other stresses like some incredibly stupid people I had to work with but I could tolerate that and reduce my contact as much as possible with those people. Not only that but I got some pretty good evaluations and pay increases with that specific job. So it was hard to leave and I just hung around and waited for the inevitable layoff as I wanted the seperation package. Which I got 8 years after hire. Looking back now, I kind of wished I left them after 4 years as that was the last time I did anything really challenging there and the last 4 years were really a waste. Oh well though, can't fix it now.
There IS anger amongst the rank and file. There is anger because that has been the INTENT of the carriers ever since the last contract expired - everything they have done and said since the expiration of the contract has been calculated to incite the contract work force. The PEB statement that employees don't facilitate the bottom line is the kind of language that are 'fighting words' when it comes to labor relations.
Out of my 51 year career, I spent 20 years of it on the 'management side' and 31 years on the contract side. It was early on, during my years as non-contract 'management' I came to the continuing observation that railroads (at least the ones I had been working for) were profitable and 'efficient' in spite of their levels of management, not because of management.
Wall Street can manage $$$$, they have no idea how to manage people.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
CMStPnPAs I see it, if you have only had 1 main job in your life and it dominates your work history. It is tough, psychologically to let it go and move to something else. It also takes a lot of self motivation and effort to switch to a new career as well.
Yeah, you're absolutely right about all of that. I worked with my first employer from the time I was a junior in high school .....for 28 years.....and the American workscape changed drastically during that time. I had a multi-discipline skillset that had made me nearly indispensible over that time....but as it turned out, the one skill I didn't have in my toolchest was the ability to sell myself....and I discovered that at the worst possible time.
But in retrospect, now retired, I can say the jobs that I look back upon with the most fondness were the ones that I quit.
And, I guess the Railroads do offer certain perks that would be hard to part ways with. For anyone desiring a decent income in a work environment sheltered from the general public....the coccoon of a locomotive cab would be hard to beat.
In my industry those carriers that treat the driver's like the railroads are treating their own customers and employees right now would be bankrupt in less than a decade even with the market capital of the class 1 railroads. Sooner rather than later you're going to tick off the 2 things you need to succeed in business your customers and your employees. Right now the railroads are doing a bang up job at both. If they literally didn't have captive shippers who literally can't move their products any other way plus their biggest competition having it's own major issues they would be all with this current mindset of lowering the OR instead of serving the customers be headed for bankruptcy court.
Sorry the last 2 major trucking companies that tried money over service well their all gone and bankrupt. Carriers like Celedon Arrow and others all have failed. If your company has no customers that want to use you unless they have literally no choice to your in trouble.
Yes, there is a lot of anger out there.
The additional personal leave day does no good when you aren't allowed to use them. You will eventually get the pay for unused days, but that's little comfort when you need the time off.
I haven't seen how the rest days are going to work. Someone had posted that it was work 11 days and have 4 days off. They are supposed to be voluntary. So I'll wait to see how this is supposed to work out. I don't know how it affects guarantees, which doesn't apply to me.
The sick days are up to 3 days off, 3 occurances a year with documentation scheduled 30 days in advance. My doctor isn't available on either Wednesdays or Thursdays, I forget which. I don't make appointments for Monday anyway, it's so I have time to cancel and reschedule. Which I've done many times. It would've been better (IMO) if they had come up with an agreement that if you have the documentation, they'll remove or restore, depending on how the attendence policies are administered, points. At least they've agreed to add/remove points if you're hospitalized, with documentation. Something they don't have to do now.
Self-supporting pools are only addressed to the extent that they, and other items, in both the PEB recommendations and the TA go for further negotiations on local levels and then, if no agreement, go to binding arbitration. Which the railroads usually get what they want.
The line ups aren't maintained very well, if at all. I recently watched for a few days a train that was first out on the line up that was what I call a ghost train - no power or cars assigned and originated on an adjoing crew district. Moving up or back is a fact of life. Always has been when pools and/or extra boards are used up or many are layed off. We already have self-protecting pools to a certain extent when the extra boards, which are supposed to fill pool vacancies, are exhausted. The difference is in how the protocols work. Some areas have a similar program already. Some of the other items also are in effect on certain railroads and certain areas. Most of those items I don't want. But they've been agreed to elsewhere in some form. Someone must've liked them.
The biggest thing I don't want is changing the regulation of pools from mileage to number of job starts. They say they'll take into account length of run, but I'm afraid that means they'll only cut 1/3 of the turns instead of 1/2 the turns on some high mileage pools.
I think it's too close to call. I think there may be more support in secret, but many won't admit that they'll vote for it. I fully expect to hear if it passes, "I don't know anyone who voted for it. The union did some underhanded deal and forced it." Indeed, Frank Wilner and some other AAR lackey have already written articles to that end. It's to stir up dissention among union members and it's working.
The funny thing is, that some of the most vocal complainers (of those I know in my corner of the world) don't participate in their union. I would expect if the Railway Labor Act was ever amended to end the union shop provisions, many would leave the union. The railroads would love that, or even better, if they could ever force a decertification vote. If they think the union contracts are bad, they will be in for a rude awakening when there aren't any contract protections at all.
I don't believe the TA is perfect. I also don't believe that other unions in other industries got much better deals because they struck. Some gained ground that they've lost over the years, but are still behind from consessions made years, sometimes many years, in the past.
If it fails and a strike is called, I'll be on the picket line. Expect congressional action to force, if we're lucky, the TA. If not, especially if it drags out to a new congress, expect something worse than the TA or even the PEB. I don't expect gaining anything more from congressional action.
Jeff
I've found out that the 11 and 4 rest day proposal I mentioned is a pilot program on one segment involving two extra boards in Kansas on the UP. It is not part of the TA, and may not be the final word on assigned days off for road service employees.
jeffhergertThe funny thing is, that some of the most vocal complainers (of those I know in my corner of the world) don't participate in their union. I would expect if the Railway Labor Act was ever amended to end the union shop provisions, many would leave the union.
When I was still a professor, I noticed the same thing among some of my colleagues. As professors, we were unionized (AFT) but with the right to opt out if one paid the fair share. Most of those always opposed any collective action and not coincidentally, were on the right politically.
charlie hebdo jeffhergert The funny thing is, that some of the most vocal complainers (of those I know in my corner of the world) don't participate in their union. I would expect if the Railway Labor Act was ever amended to end the union shop provisions, many would leave the union. When I was still a professor, I noticed the same thing among some of my colleagues. As professors, we were unionized (AFT) but with the right to opt out if one paid the fair share. Most of those always opposed any collective action and not coincidentally, were on the right politically.
jeffhergert The funny thing is, that some of the most vocal complainers (of those I know in my corner of the world) don't participate in their union. I would expect if the Railway Labor Act was ever amended to end the union shop provisions, many would leave the union.
And those 'complainers' were they to opt out of their unions would still expect to get all the perq's and benefits that the Unions secure through contract negotiations.
The thing that I observed during my time as a non-contract company official was that the benefits the company would provide to the lower levels of officialdom would follow whatever the Unions negotiated. Primaryly being Vacation time. When I was first an official you got one week of vacation until you had completed 10 years, you go a second week until 20 year and a thrid week after 20 year which ended the progression. Once the Unions negotiated 5 weeks after 20 years and a progression from new hire to 20 years - the company adopted the same parameters for the low level officials.
BaltACDAnd those 'complainers' were they to opt out of their unions would still expect to get all the perq's and benefits that the Unions secure through contract negotiations.
You bet!!! Always complaining and never showed any appreciation for the bennies and increases in the scale the union got them. They thought they were entitled and bent over backwards to brown nose administrators.
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