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Oil Tank Buffer Cars

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Posted by traisessive1 on Monday, July 18, 2022 3:48 AM

The requirement for engines being locked was already a rule in Canada. The only thing that really changed was that crews could no longer deadhead.

10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ... 

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Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, July 14, 2022 7:45 PM

traisessive1

In the last year TC and the FRA changed their regulations so that now most dangerous cars can be next to a DP remote. No buffer.  Just thought I'd toss that in. 

 

Locomotives must not be occupied and the doors locked so they remain unoccupied.  I guess this is in case non railroad personnel try to hitch a ride.  All the TE&Y would (should) have keys for the locks.

Jeff  

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, July 14, 2022 12:31 PM

BaltACD
Wanswheel would have had the answer, and the documentation to support it - but now he is gone!

And I would have been proud to have been his conduit as I was several times after he was bounced.

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Posted by traisessive1 on Thursday, July 14, 2022 12:00 PM

In the last year TC and the FRA changed their regulations so that now most dangerous cars can be next to a DP remote. No buffer.  Just thought I'd toss that in. 

10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ... 

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, July 14, 2022 10:58 AM

PNWRMNM
 
VGN Jess

  Ok, let me try again: If the train is carrying flammable liquid, then what year were buffer cars required between locomotive and flammable liquid car? 

Jess,

I would suspect from shortly after 1907. To answer correctly, one would need each edition of the regulations and then go thru them from the first edition until you found the requirement. I do not know where such a collection would exist.

Mac McCulloch

Wanswheel would have had the answer, and the documentation to support it - but now he is gone!

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by PNWRMNM on Thursday, July 14, 2022 10:09 AM

VGN Jess

  Ok, let me try again: If the train is carrying flammable liquid, then what year were buffer cars required between locomotive and flammable liquid car?

Jess,

I would suspect from shortly after 1907. To answer correctly, one would need each edition of the regulations and then go thru them from the first edition until you found the requirement. I do not know where such a collection would exist.

Mac McCulloch

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, July 14, 2022 8:46 AM

See when 49 CFR 174.85 and then the various emendations to it were enacted.  I don't have time to run the search for you; you may have to go through the Federal Register.  Mike (wanswheel) could have found this in his sleep.

The original regulations date back to 1907, but the specific regulations addressing flammables are more recent, and I believe were revised in the perceived Bakken-light-crude-disaster "do you live in the Blast Zone" days.

It's surprising how the various government sites dance around answering the specific question VGN Jess has, even in retrospectives on hazmat handling (as in the FRA reference from 2005)

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Posted by VGN Jess on Thursday, July 14, 2022 1:43 AM

  Ok, let me try again: If the train is carrying flammable liquid, then what year were buffer cars required between locomotive and flammable liquid car?

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, July 12, 2022 7:47 AM

Look back over the history of the Federal regulations at 49CFR174.  

Prior to December 1990 the barrier regulations were in 49CFR174.85 to 174.93; they were then condensed in a table as 174.85.

The situation as it stood in mid-2005 (see p.15ff for the barrier cars):

https://railroads.dot.gov/elibrary/safe-placement-train-cars-report

Currently a SP is in effect following a couple of potentially-nasty wrecks.  See the discussion here (which has somewhat more discussion than official railroad or government sources) dated at the end of May 2021:

https://lawblet13.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/RCB_Buffer_Cars_HZM-2.pdf

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Posted by PNWRMNM on Tuesday, July 12, 2022 5:53 AM

Jess,

It is not the year, it is the nature of the oil. If flammable liquid, then buffer car. If not flammable liquid, then no bufer car.

I saw the SP 'oil can' train once in late 1980's and do not recall any buffer cars.

Mac

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Posted by VGN Jess on Monday, July 11, 2022 11:17 PM

Mac: Thanks; I'm sure that restrictions on placement of placarded loaded tank cars go back many decades, probably to shortly after the 1907 founding of the Bureau of Explosives,but I was looking for the year for the requirement of "buffer" cars between the locomotive and chemical car. Do you know? 1960's? 1970's?

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Posted by PNWRMNM on Monday, July 11, 2022 9:28 PM

VGN Jess

Does anyone know what year it became required of RRs to insert a buffer (usually a hopper) car between a locomotive and an oil tank car? Thanks. ps: particulary interested when SP began this practice.

Restrictions on placement of placarded loaded tank cars go back many decades, probably to shortly after the 1907 founding of the Bureau of Explosives, which I worked for in the 1970's. Placarded refers to a tank car loaded with Hazardous Material. Oil may or may not be a hazardous material. When I started in 1973 Flammable Liquids were those with a closed cup flash point of 80 degrees F. or less. At some point the flash point was raised to 100 degrees F., increasing the universe of Flammable Liquids.

It is not a matter of the year. It is a matter of the flash point of the oil, which is highly variable among crude oils.

Mac McCulloch

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Posted by chutton01 on Sunday, July 10, 2022 8:14 PM

This has been covered before, and here's a good thread https://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/217277.aspx (direct hot-link may not work - if so just cut and paste the url since hot-linking to threads doesn't seem to work well for me lately).  Its from 2013, and the year 2006 is mentioned - but you can read the thread and make the call yourself.
Not sure why they focused on boxcars, the majority of buffer cars I've seen in images for US railroads over the years have been older covered hoppers, likely so they can be more readily filled with sand and such.

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Oil Tank Buffer Cars
Posted by VGN Jess on Sunday, July 10, 2022 7:42 PM

Does anyone know what year it became required of RRs to insert a buffer (usually a hopper) car between a locomotive and an oil tank car? Thanks. ps: particulary interested when SP began this practice.

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