After a many years hiatus from the freight industry. I decided to hire on at a 3PL(3rd Party Logistics Company)this month. Alot has changed in logistics over the past 5 years alone, and there's items I need a refresher on. This pertains mostly to the software side of things. The amount of software now available is great compared to the when I had to go door to door. With a rate book, and what not trying to get a Yes! Instead of a No ...
A little backstory.. Years ago. I started my own Expediting/Freight Forwarding business. My main customers were; automotive, and pharma. I was a one man operation, and did fairly good for myself. I even handled a few IM shipments. However.. Long story short.. It came a time when I got a little over my head, and things started to turn for the worse. It was difficult trying too hire reliable help, and I just got to a point where I did not know where I wanted to go, and how to proceed.. So I eased my customers over to other carriers. Revoked my authority, and went on my way, and "semi-retired" myself. In the mean time I was traveling quite a bit during these last 6 years catching up with family and old freinds that are scattered to the four corners of the US. Doing consulting, and gig jobs to stay busy. I had enough invested over time where I can live comfortably. Yet I'm a busy body and I always like to keep pushing.
Back to that 3PL that hired me. We are non asset based which means we don't have our own equipment. We do everything from Intermodal to Ocean. Intermodal is our largest division by far accounting for probably 80% of our revenue. We are a fast growing midsize company. We use both of UP's domestic container pools. UMAX which is UP-CSX. EMP(Equipment Management Pool) which consist of; UP, NS, KCS, CN, and CP. We as well can ship IM on BNSF and both Canadian roads. Containers we use when shipping on BNSF belong to; JBH(JB Hunt), COFC Logistics, and newcomer Unit 53.
My position at the company is Truckload Account Executive. While I may deal with TL. I can market and sell other services as well. I've been at the company for almost 3 weeks now, and one of my daily task is doing research on markets and generating leads..
So now to Iowa. If you all remember Greyhounds made mention awhile back about how Iowa lacks any good intermodal access. This is true and It would be nice if there were many more in the State instead of Council Bluffs, and Butler which is served by the Iowa Northern. So I just happened to be doing some lane research in the Sioux City area and came across the Sioux Honey Association Co-op.. Which prepares and bottles Sue Bee Honey. So I got on the horn and called them up! As I was talking to traffic(traffic is another term for transportation coordinator)over there. He mentioned some of the lanes they ship honey on travel 1800 Miles. So I offered him to try out our intermodal product and save some money. Well when I mentioned that he said NO!! He said Intermodal was too slow and will not ship Intermodal!! Lead time was his main issue, and I can understand to a degree.. In that regard I may try to entice him again in the future..
Iowa is a treasure trove of business to say the least, and the rails(Union Pacific especially hint hint)are missing out on capturing traffic. This is where shortlines come in. As I see them as the only viable way to snag traffic from the highways.
Now Iowa only has two IM ramps.. Council Bluffs and the Butler Logistics Park which is located on the Iowa Northern just outside of Shell Rock, IA. I'm curious to see where the Butler IM terminal heads. Right now it only handles matchback Agri loads for export via UP. There's no domestic service yet, and hopefully in the future there will be. It would be a godsend to develop a hub and spoke IM network utilizing shortlines to gather IM loads building density for the C1's..
My dad worked for the MOPAC until 1947 when he became a traffic manager. TM's are essential to companies and I can relate to your story. I wish you all the luck you are going to need. In the current "overload" of UP, I doubt that they are going to be receptive to additional loads. Too much "NOT INVENTED HERE" thinking. While I own the stock, I am not a happy shareholder. CEO is too highly comped.
We hauled Sue Bee Honey east out of Sioux City. I never handled a complaint from them.
Other business out of Sioux City/Sioux Falls (truck to Sioux City) was red meat in UPS reefers and hides.
This was all TOFC over a circus ramp in SC.
greyhounds We hauled Sue Bee Honey east out of Sioux City. I never handled a complaint from them. Other business out of Sioux City/Sioux Falls (truck to Sioux City) was red meat in UPS reefers and hides. This was all TOFC over a circus ramp in SC.
Sure. Yet service was more reliable back then. In 2022 things have changed. Since there's no longer a ramp in Sioux City. A 95 Mile dray down I-29 to Council Bluffs is about the best you can get..
The Council Bluffs' ramp is on the Iowa Interstate. They had two intermediate ramps, one at Newton IA and the other at West Liberty IA. West Liberty is just east of Iowa City. Both have been closed for a few years, probably longer than I think.
I believe they couldn't generate enough volume to remain viable. Newton especially after Whirlpool acquired The Maytag Company and closed the Newton plant.
Jeff
Is there any available vacant land in the Sioux City area that is in close proximity to all three railroads and in reasonable proximity to shippers? The NIMBY factor may come into play and ignore it at your own peril.
You also have to make sure that there's enough traffic to ensure a shift for the employees running it. If there's only 2-3 hours worth of lift, it's not efficient to run it.
Backshop You also have to make sure that there's enough traffic to ensure a shift for the employees running it. If there's only 2-3 hours worth of lift, it's not efficient to run it.
greyhounds Backshop You also have to make sure that there's enough traffic to ensure a shift for the employees running it. If there's only 2-3 hours worth of lift, it's not efficient to run it. And here we have it. In spades. We’ve got an operating department guy figuring out an excuse for why it won’t work instead of figuring how to make it work. This would put freight and revenue on the railroads. Can’t have that. If there’s only 2-3 hours of lift, have the employees involved do other things for the rest of their shift. For example, if the employees hired are required to have CDL’s you could have them move trailers/containers to and from customers when they weren’t loading/unloading. Alternatively, have them operate forklifts in the warehouses. And, if we really get desperate, go sell some more business so there’s more time required to load/unload the trains. This isn’t hard.
If there is one thing that sours a employee's attitude, it is being assigned 'make work' when he has completed ALL of the functions their job entails.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACDIf there is one thing that sours a employee's attitude, it is being assigned 'make work' when he has completed ALL of the functions their job entails.
greyhounds BaltACD If there is one thing that sours a employee's attitude, it is being assigned 'make work' when he has completed ALL of the functions their job entails. I fully agree with that. However, I do not regard drayage or operating a forklift as “Make Work.” ...
BaltACD If there is one thing that sours a employee's attitude, it is being assigned 'make work' when he has completed ALL of the functions their job entails.
Just because you don't doesn't mean the employees involved wouldn't consider it as 'make work'.
I was involved in Dispatching for the last half of my career. The reality of Dispatching is 90% of the job is thinking. However, when it comes to supervision what they can only comprehend as working is manipulating switches, signals, track authorities or talking on the radio of telephone. Very few people are able to 'THINK' when performing other tasks. The emphasis on physically observable 'morement' as a indication that a Dispatcher is working is counter productive.
This story can applied to many industries and even aspects of life. Management at the big railroads want to go after the easy stuff (big intermodal trains from point A to point B) and shun the more challenging stuff (perishable/expedited freight and carload).
The class 1s are going to need a sea change management attitude.
Hmm. So the accounting and marketing guys who finish their tasks is the allotted time have an hour left in their eight hour day go clean toilets until 5:00?
Well there's plenty of traffic generated in the Sioux City area to keep contractors busy at an IM ramp for a good 12 hour period. There's an assortment of meat packers, food processors, and cold storage. Also Cargill has a large facility for soybean processing, and Storm Lake, IA is only about a 70 mile dray to hypothetical IM ramp. Tyson Foods has 2 processing plants there..
Also railroads don't operate any drayage. That's handled by O/O's or drayage companies. There's no investemnt from the RR at that end. As well at many of the nations IM ramps. Contrators provide the lift equipment and operators..
I like Greyhounds idea of a "Union IM Ramp" It could be operated by a WATCO or Savage..
CSSHEGEWISCH Is there any available vacant land in the Sioux City area that is in close proximity to all three railroads and in reasonable proximity to shippers? The NIMBY factor may come into play and ignore it at your own peril.
There may be some farmland avaible to convert off of both UP and BNSF mains south of the city..
SD60MAC9500 Backshop You also have to make sure that there's enough traffic to ensure a shift for the employees running it. If there's only 2-3 hours worth of lift, it's not efficient to run it. Well there's plenty of traffic generated in the Sioux City area to keep contractors busy at an IM ramp for a good 12 hour period. There's an assortment of meat packers, food processors, and cold storage. Also Cargill has a large facility for soybean processing, and Storm Lake, IA is only about a 70 mile dray to hypothetical IM ramp. Tyson Foods has 2 processing plants there.. Also railroads don't operate any drayage. That's handled by O/O's or drayage companies. There's no investemnt from the RR at that end. As well at many of the nations IM ramps. Contrators provide the lift equipment and operators.. I like Greyhounds idea of a "Union IM Ramp" It could be operated by a WATCO or Savage..
That's assuming you can get all that traffic to use intermodal.
The Council Bluffs (IAIS/UP) and Omaha (BNSF) intermodal facilities aren't that far away from Sioux City. Both of those locations are on their main routes. IM traffic from Sioux City is going to move in manifest trains to a point where they can be put on a train towards their final destinations.
I don't know about BNSF, but UP doesn't move IM east out of Council Bluffs. Nor does it move loads from the Chicago area into CB. There is an IM train that sets out containers for CB, that a manifest then picks up for the yard. But anytime I've looked, the containers are empty, going to CB to be loaded for western destinations in the area. Maybe even in Sioux City.
CN, of any of them, would probably benefit most from an IM facility at Sioux City. They are the farthest from an IM facility of their own. Their closest facilities are in Wisconsin and the Chicago area.
BackshopSo now the railroad is buying and operating Class 8 tractors to move trailers to customers? How long would it take to pay them off? Which warehouses would they be operating forklifts in?
greyhounds Backshop So now the railroad is buying and operating Class 8 tractors to move trailers to customers? How long would it take to pay them off? Which warehouses would they be operating forklifts in? No. The railroads won't have to buy any highway tractors, Class 8 or otherwise. The joint logistics park will almost certainly be operated by a contractor. That contractor will hire local truckers to do the drayage and lifts. "Which warehouses?" The warehouses at the proposed logistics park. Some people just flat out make stuff up to throw in the way of innovation and business development. This is a salient example of that.
Backshop So now the railroad is buying and operating Class 8 tractors to move trailers to customers? How long would it take to pay them off? Which warehouses would they be operating forklifts in?
As far as all this infrastructure being operated by a third party. Who is going to take the chance on it? If the railroads don't see a need for a lift, who is going to build a facility and hope the railroad will think it worthwhile to service. I know your answer to the question already. "You people never think of the possibilities". Yes, we do. Some of us also have business experience.
A quick question or two. Where are those SC loads going? Is it in all directions or 80% headed to Chicago and/or points in that direction? Being able to aggregate multiple loads headed in the same direction are where railroads shine. One load going to 40 different states per day, not so much. Though that is where having three lines to originate those loads may shift the equation back in favor of the railroads somewhat.
Will the railroads make money on a Chicago run if that is where most of the traffic ends up going? Having a list of destinations of the goods from the SC area would be helpful in determining viability. Knowing shippers dream markets (where they would like to expand into) would be key to growing this endeavor. That would require a marketing department with real people and not a computer form that speak to the shippers to get that information.
I'm presuming this was on the former IC/Chicago Central line that CN now operates.
When and why did the Sioux City ramp close?
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Good luck on your new (resumed) career. My background was as a "Traffic Manager" for an LTL carrier in the 1980s before I made the shift to sales in another industry. I have a number of customers in the TL and LTL industry and am aware of the trends and challenges. Plus my son is in 3PL in Chicago and we chat frequently about the challenges.
I collect railroad freight schedule books, not too many of those around these days and have 3 Conrail books. I am currently reviewing/analyzing the 1988 Conrail intermodal schedules, primarily the premium service trains ("Mail" and "TV" trains handling piggyback rather than double stacks). Primarily the East Coast to St. Louis trains now but will later look at the East Coast to Chicago movements and then the eastbounds.
Here is my point....Conrail hustled for intermodal, or at least it appeared they did. For example at first glance TV 3 appeared to be a Kearny, NJ to East St. Louis train leaving at 7pm and arriving in EStL at 0500 two days later...pretty good service. Lets face it, no trucker could legally offer anything better than 2 day service between points. But, looking at the schedule, TV 3 was much much more with blocks leaving Kearny for Conway, Chicago (Mail or UPS), Harrisburg, Detroit, Pittsburgh (Mail or UPS), Columbus, Indianapolis, and E.StL (Mail or UPS) for a total of eight blocks.
At Harrisburg was a big shuffle with the Conway, Chicago, Harrisburg, Detroit blocks set out for rapid transfer to other intermodals and pickup of blocks for Pittsburgh (mail), EStL, Indy, and columbus.
Similar operation took place train Mail 3 between Kearny (730am) to EStL (1300). In other words and evening train to handle the early UPS and truckload loads making the evening cutoff and then a morning train with other "mail" which couldnt arrive until during the night. These were complex trains with multiple blocks and tight connections...similar to passenger trains in the 50s. Harrisburg was the key to make it work.
Conrail also ran Boston to EStL with a dedicated train operating from Cleveland to ESt.L with that freight and other blocks (Indy). Obviously there wasnt enough Boston - EStL to make it work but building freight out of Albany, Syracuse, buffalo, and Cleveland made it work...in pre-PSR days.
Today CSX runs I7 and I8 between NJ and EStL, with a pickup in Indy. Total containers/trailers total 150 on a good day with only about 40-50 domestic, the balance international...perhaps about 5 UPS containers/trailers. NS barely offers intermodal service in that lane.
My point is to expect today's railroads to offer any sort of "blocked" intermodal service is asking quite a bit. Conrail hustled (with no competition other than truckers) and made it work. I do not expect UP, BNSF, or CN in Iowa to get excited about that market until the coal completely goes away and they realize the Conrail model is critical for growth...or to stem to negetive growth.
BTW if anyone has a line on any old freight schedules let me know.
Ed
SD70Dude greyhounds We hauled Sue Bee Honey east out of Sioux City. I never handled a complaint from them. Other business out of Sioux City/Sioux Falls (truck to Sioux City) was red meat in UPS reefers and hides. This was all TOFC over a circus ramp in SC. I'm presuming this was on the former IC/Chicago Central line that CN now operates. When and why did the Sioux City ramp close?
BackshopI've never known UPS to have reefers but if I'm wrong, someone can correct me.
OK, I'll correct you.
UPS had an operation called "Martrax." I believe that's the correct spelling.
Martrax was set up to move packages in and temperature controlled freight out. They used this to get a revenue load both ways.
They would use the trailers to move packages by TOFC to their sort facility in Sioux Falls over our Sioux City intermodal terminal. Then they'd get red meat loads going east.
Is there anything else I can help you with?
Don't get your panties in a bunch if you're called out for misstating something.
Also, if it was such a great idea, why did UPS quit doing it? They get out of businesses that aren't profitable. They just sold their Freight unit a year or two ago. Maybe they needed better marketing...
rrnut282A quick question or two. Where are those SC loads going? Is it in all directions or 80% headed to Chicago and/or points in that direction? Being able to aggregate multiple loads headed in the same direction are where railroads shine. One load going to 40 different states per day, not so much. Though that is where having three lines to originate those loads may shift the equation back in favor of the railroads somewhat. Will the railroads make money on a Chicago run if that is where most of the traffic ends up going? Having a list of destinations of the goods from the SC area would be helpful in determining viability. Knowing shippers dream markets (where they would like to expand into) would be key to growing this endeavor. That would require a marketing department with real people and not a computer form that speak to the shippers to get that information.
1) The west coast. With 39.51 million people California has a larger population than Canada. 11.9% of the US population is in California. There is some red meat production in California. About 3.1% of the US red meat comes from California. Note the mismatch. 11.9% of the people with 3.1% of the production. They bring in the rest of the meat. In addition, there are significant exports of meat through California ports to countries such as Japan, South Korea, etc.
2) Florida. With 21.48 million people Florida has 6.5% of the US population. In state red meat production is 0.1% of the US total. They’ve got to bring in the meat.
3) I could go on. With places such as the northeast etc. But I think I’ve made my point.
I think it was still open under Chicago Central.
Pre-Staggers, there were circus style ramps everywhere on all the railroads. Post Staggers it seems almost all disappeared as railroads gradually changed from retail to wholesale service.
jeffhergertI think it was still open under Chicago Central. Pre-Staggers, there were circus style ramps everywhere on all the railroads. Post Staggers it seems almost all disappeared as railroads gradually changed from retail to wholesale service. Jeff
And intermodal moving from Sioux City id also going to move in manifest trains, just like it used to when there was a ramp there.
I do agree that there should be more IM terminals, not just in Iowa either, but those off the beaten path will have IM start/end in a manifest train.
I don't see it ever happening, but maybe railroads should buy tractors and trailers/containers. Then become true freight transportation companies. But to make it work they would have to act like going out and finding and then moving freight was important.
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