Many here do not know or remember but....... A few years ago the SP was having to fight the rising great salt rising. The possible flooding of its tracks that crossed on the tressel was a concern. SP had to raise the tracks several feet with every day AWWs to install more height. Now that the lake has receeded so much is UP having any problems keeping the track properly surfaced and aligned ? Seem to recall that the fill is sitting on rather unstable land.
Utah’s Great Salt Lake hits new historic low amid drought in western US | Utah | The Guardian
I wouldn't be surprised if they were.
I saw video of a small dam failure a few years ago. Once the water dropped, the shoreline started to collapse, as the water was actually part of the "structure" of the shoreline.
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Is the lake crossing worth the resources it takes to keep the lake at bay?
Would it be less expensive to go around the lake?
It was done with the completion of the transcontinental railroad at Promontory in 1869.
The Western Pacific line goes around the south end of the lake. The SP line across the lake eliminated the climb to Promontory Summit and is shorter.
Reportedly in the past the UP has investigated the possibility of a ~34 mile cutoff bypassing the GSL crossing. In this era of PSR driven low OR it is unlikely they will spend any capital on this project.
UP routes near GSL: http://goo.gl/maps/gI1nj
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The WP is now part of the UP. I suspect that some day UP will double-track it asnd abandon the lake crossing.
daveklepperThe WP is now part of the UP. I suspect that some day UP will double-track it asnd abandon the lake crossing.
If UP were to abandon the crossing, enviornmentally, I suspect they would also be required to remove all the material that was dumped into the lake to construct the causeway that allows the crossing. I have no idea what that costs of that removal would be - but it would be considerable.
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As it stands now, the WP route around the south edge of the lake runs directly to Salt Lake City and is a direct connection to the former Rio Grande. Connecting with the Overland Route would entail a jog to the north to Ogden. Abandonment of the former SP route seems unlikely since it has the direct connection at Ogden.
Very doubtful. The mountains, especially the Silver Zone pass, are a formidable maintenance obstacle and require a lot more mileage than the ex-SP route.
BaltACDIf UP were to abandon the crossing, enviornmentally, I suspect they would also be required to remove all the material that was dumped into the lake to construct the causeway that allows the crossing. I have no idea what that costs of that removal would be - but it would be considerable.
The material used in the second phase of the crossing was rock, not sure that this would require removal. The initial building used wood pilings which, it turned out, were very valuable since they were well preserved by the extremely salty water.
MikeF90 ... The material used in the second phase of the crossing was rock, not sure that this would require removal. The initial building used wood pilings which, it turned out, were very valuable since they were well preserved by the extremely salty water.
The lake has been cut in two by the crossing - the water enviornment on each side of the crossing is totally different as far as salinity and life forms.
From my persepective, the crossing has totally trashed the ecology of the lake.
BaltACD daveklepper The WP is now part of the UP. I suspect that some day UP will double-track it asnd abandon the lake crossing. If UP were to abandon the crossing, enviornmentally, I suspect they would also be required to remove all the material that was dumped into the lake to construct the causeway that allows the crossing. I have no idea what that costs of that removal would be - but it would be considerable.
daveklepper The WP is now part of the UP. I suspect that some day UP will double-track it asnd abandon the lake crossing.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
BaltACDThe lake has been cut in two by the crossing - the water enviornment on each side of the crossing is totally different as far as salinity and life forms.
Uh, no. Since 2016 water flows freely between north and south halves due to a new bridge replacing a damaged culvert. It may take some time to return completely to normal, but I haven't read any status reports recently.
MikeF90 BaltACD The lake has been cut in two by the crossing - the water enviornment on each side of the crossing is totally different as far as salinity and life forms. Uh, no. Since 2016 water flows freely between north and south halves due to a new bridge replacing a damaged culvert. It may take some time to return completely to normal, but I haven't read any status reports recently.
BaltACD The lake has been cut in two by the crossing - the water enviornment on each side of the crossing is totally different as far as salinity and life forms.
I doubt that a single opening between the different sides of the lake will put a serious dent in reestablishing the lake to its original condition.
CSSHEGEWISCH As it stands now, the WP route around the south edge of the lake runs directly to Salt Lake City and is a direct connection to the former Rio Grande. Connecting with the Overland Route would entail a jog to the north to Ogden. Abandonment of the former SP route seems unlikely since it has the direct connection at Ogden.
Correct, and UP has no plans to swing south to the ex-WP. They have a steady supply of rip-rap ready to go.
BaltACD MikeF90 BaltACD The lake has been cut in two by the crossing - the water enviornment on each side of the crossing is totally different as far as salinity and life forms. Uh, no. Since 2016 water flows freely between north and south halves due to a new bridge replacing a damaged culvert. It may take some time to return completely to normal, but I haven't read any status reports recently. I doubt that a single opening between the different sides of the lake will put a serious dent in reestablishing the lake to its original condition.
For the new connecting bridge to be effective, they would have had to excavate the causeway down to lake bottom level. Salt water/fresh water flow is by density. For fresh water to flow north, there would have to be a corresponding underflow of the denser salt water to the south. There may also be circulation patterns in the lake, so at least a second bridge would need to be built. Even then, a couple of 200 ft bridges in a 20 mile (100,000+ ft) causeway will hardly return the lake to its natural state.
MidlandMike BaltACD MikeF90 BaltACD The lake has been cut in two by the crossing - the water enviornment on each side of the crossing is totally different as far as salinity and life forms. Uh, no. Since 2016 water flows freely between north and south halves due to a new bridge replacing a damaged culvert. It may take some time to return completely to normal, but I haven't read any status reports recently. I doubt that a single opening between the different sides of the lake will put a serious dent in reestablishing the lake to its original condition. For the new connecting bridge to be effective, they would have had to excavate the causeway down to lake bottom level. Salt water/fresh water flow is by density. For fresh water to flow north, there would have to be a corresponding underflow of the denser salt water to the south. There may also be circulation patterns in the lake, so at least a second bridge would need to be built. Even then, a couple of 200 ft bridges in a 20 mile (100,000+ ft) causeway will hardly return the lake to its natural state.
The northwest part of the lake was lower than the southern part. When the 180 foot bridge was built in 2016, water flowed from the southern part into the northwest part. In six months, the northwest part's surface level went up two feet.
York1 John
York1 MidlandMike BaltACD MikeF90 BaltACD The lake has been cut in two by the crossing - the water enviornment on each side of the crossing is totally different as far as salinity and life forms. Uh, no. Since 2016 water flows freely between north and south halves due to a new bridge replacing a damaged culvert. It may take some time to return completely to normal, but I haven't read any status reports recently. I doubt that a single opening between the different sides of the lake will put a serious dent in reestablishing the lake to its original condition. For the new connecting bridge to be effective, they would have had to excavate the causeway down to lake bottom level. Salt water/fresh water flow is by density. For fresh water to flow north, there would have to be a corresponding underflow of the denser salt water to the south. There may also be circulation patterns in the lake, so at least a second bridge would need to be built. Even then, a couple of 200 ft bridges in a 20 mile (100,000+ ft) causeway will hardly return the lake to its natural state. The northwest part of the lake was lower than the southern part. When the 180 foot bridge was built in 2016, water flowed from the southern part into the northwest part. In six months, the northwest part's surface level went up two feet.
That only established hydrologic level equilibrium. If you look at Google Earth image of the lake, you can still see the sharp difference in the look of the lake on either side of the causeway.
After the UP-WP merger, UP went from Ogden to SLC and the WP route west. They even built an Ogden bypass.
There is track along the west side of the Salt Lake basin from the ex-WP, north to Rowley about 1/3 the distance to the UP at Lakeside. Completing the line the rest of the way to Lakeside would give them a lake bypass while still utilizing all of the ex-SP west of the lake.
MidlandMikeThey even built an Ogden bypass.
timz MidlandMike They even built an Ogden bypass. Where?
MidlandMike They even built an Ogden bypass.
Where?
I remember readind about an Ogden bypass in a Trains article not long after the UP-WP merger, the inference being that the route down to Salt Lake City and the ex-WP was now the primary route, and the SP interchange was secondary. I don't remember any details of the bypass, so I checked historical topo maps. In the 1987 map they show a new line parallel and just west of the Ogden yard. Apparently it might just have been a yard bypass for the trains that no longer used the yard for interchange with SP.
https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/ht-bin/tv_browse.pl?id=509dd84b2f9240d962d84dd984a0206d
From PBS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsBXpt5RIsQ
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