A source for rail traffic is Oil Refineries. Matter of fact the KCS corridors along the Miss. and Mobile are loaded with Oil and Petrochemical industries which is the real reason CP is intrested in KCS. Not only is transpiration dependent on oil but so is plastics and pharmaceutical. Gasoline is only a fraction of what a barrel of Oil is used for. I believe if we just go back to Bunker C we can get more out for our money here.
And just how would we fuel our automobiles in the middle of winter??
My nephew, who was an executive with Exxon Mobil was told me they made their profits primarily on petrochemicals such as plastic, not on gasoline. It looks like more and more passenger vehicles such as SUVs and pickups are trending to EV, rapidly.
CSSHEGEWISCH And just how would we fuel our automobiles in the middle of winter??
Five refineries have come online in the last six years.
"New" refineries are irrelevant. In theory, you could have gone a hundred years without building a new refinery, but added capacity at all of them. Think of it like airports. It is very rare that an entirely new airport is built. But, runways and terminals are added all the time.
To put a finer point on it, one of the biggest refineries in the US was built in 1975. It could process 15,000 barrels a day. Offically, it dates to 1975 and there's been no "new construction" there since 1975. It has, however, been massively expanded to 290,000 barrels. But, it isn't "new" even after the other 275,000 barrels worth of capacity.
Refineries have been consolidating for years, expanding as obsolete refineries have been closed. Some of the refineries were converted to alternatives such as biodiesel. Total crude capacity grew until the start of the pandemic. It has dropped from about 19 million barrels per day, to 18 million bpd. The actual thruput has not decreased as much. The US is still number 1 in capacity.
MidlandMikeRefineries have been consolidating for years, expanding as obsolete refineries have been closed. Some of the refineries were converted to alternatives such as biodiesel. Total crude capacity grew until the start of the pandemic. It has dropped from about 19 million barrels per day, to 18 million bpd. The actual thruput has not decreased as much. The US is still number 1 in capacity.
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No gas turbine automobile was intended to run on #5 or #6-residual fuel, like those misguided UP turbines. There were reasons for that.
On the other hand, GM had notable success (technically, at least) with what was fundamentally a coal-burning Eldorado. It needed steam bottoming, but that would have been easy to add...
You'd use #2 gas-oil in any practical separately-fired preheater for a turbine automobile anyway. And the turbine would be a hybrid with battery-electric... a rather good solution for full-parallel, in fact... but you'd be better designing for at least zero-net-carbon renewable transition... and most current turbine materials don't like hydrogen for full zero-carbon.
Bunker C is now used to make plastics, it stopped being a cheap byproduct of the refinery years ago. The oil-fired steam locos running to day run fine on distallates and bio-fuel (probably better)
There is pressure on both sides to potential refinery entrants. Improved, but expensive, technology is constantly improving the yield while ever increasing environmental regulations are raising the bar for just operating them. In the US, a lot of the smaller operators, who lack the capital, have closed while the major players, who have capital and expertise, have evolved. Lyondell Basel just announced that they are going to close their Houston refinery and focus on chemicals because oil isn't their core competancy.
About 15 years ago, the Wall Street Journal had artical about a company that wanted to build a new refinery in southern Arizona using Mexican crude. However, the project died due to regulatory red tape and lawsuits by environmental organizations.
roundstick3@gmail.comGasoline is only a fraction of what a barrel of Oil is used for. I believe if we just go back to Bunker C we can get more out for our money here.
That's the strangest non-sensical statement I've read here.
Yes, gasoline is only one product of oil refining. There are many others, all of which are useful. "Bunker C" is also one of those products. But you'd never use it in an IC engine that's for sure, it's completely inappropriate/not usable to that use.
just a few things made from refining oil:
Propane
Butane
Gasoline
Diesel
Naptha
Fuel ("bunker") oil
Asphalt
Kerosene
Jet fuel
plastic feedstocks
other misc distillates.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
The Bunker C statement is a old joke dating back about a few years on this forum..
United Refining in Warren PA has been humming along since 1902 and produces 70000 barrels a day. It is served by the B and P railroad. Pennslvania oil is known for high quality lubrication. Down the road is also Bradford PA which has a refinery for high quality lubricants
OvermodGM
GM built at least one turbine concept car. The one I'm vaguely familiar with resembled an airplane - hardly a family vehicle. That there were only a couple of test beds speaks to the idea that they were not practical.
San Francisco tried out two turbine powered fire trucks (American LaFrance). Aside from burning overhead awnings, they weren't a total bust, but both were eventually repowered with Diesel engins.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I believe Chrysler built a whole series of turbine powered cars. After a demonstation project, most all of them were crushed. I believe, Jay Leno has somehow secured one for his 'museum'.
Chrysler kept three turbine cars after the test program ended (six more were acquired by museums or collections, for a total of nine survivors). Leno somehow convinced Chrysler to sell him one in 2009, the other two were part of the Walter P. Chrysler Museum before it closed in 2012, presumably they are now in storage along with the rest of that collection.
Here a writeup on UP's use of heavy fuel oil in turbines and diesels. Note that they switched to a slightly more refined grade ('Bunker B') to get rid of abrasive solids and ash in the fuel.
https://utahrails.net/up/bunker-c.php
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
IIRC, Chrysler built 50 turbine circa 1963 and lent several out for people to drive for a few days, i.e. demonstrators. The killers were initial cost for the turbines and poor fuel efficiency when driven at part throttle. The upside was that the turbines would run on just about any clean burning liquid fuel.
GM built at least two concept turbine cars in the 1950's, with at least one of them called te Firebird. The circa 1956 verssion "starred" in a 1956 GM short about the automatic highways expected in 1976 and looks to be the inspiration for the design of "Supercar".
roundstick3@gmail.com The Bunker C statement is a old joke dating back about a few years on this forum..
It's funny how knowledgeable people get banned for life, yet the ****stirrers keep coming back under a new name.
Backshop roundstick3@gmail.com The Bunker C statement is a old joke dating back about a few years on this forum.. How would you know? You've only been a member for a few months... ...
How would you know? You've only been a member for a few months...
...
selector Backshop roundstick3@gmail.com The Bunker C statement is a old joke dating back about a few years on this forum.. How would you know? You've only been a member for a few months... ...
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Erik_Mag IIRC, Chrysler built 50 turbine circa 1963 and lent several out for people to drive for a few days, i.e. demonstrators. The killers were initial cost for the turbines and poor fuel efficiency when driven at part throttle. The upside was that the turbines would run on just about any clean burning liquid fuel. GM built at least two concept turbine cars in the 1950's, with at least one of them called te Firebird. The circa 1956 verssion "starred" in a 1956 GM short about the automatic highways expected in 1976 and looks to be the inspiration for the design of "Supercar".
Murphy Siding Erik_Mag IIRC, Chrysler built 50 turbine circa 1963 and lent several out for people to drive for a few days, i.e. demonstrators. The killers were initial cost for the turbines and poor fuel efficiency when driven at part throttle. The upside was that the turbines would run on just about any clean burning liquid fuel. GM built at least two concept turbine cars in the 1950's, with at least one of them called te Firebird. The circa 1956 verssion "starred" in a 1956 GM short about the automatic highways expected in 1976 and looks to be the inspiration for the design of "Supercar". Wasn't the Batmobile a turbine car?
Wasn't the Batmobile a turbine car?
Don't believe so, although it was made to look like it could be using a turbine with its circular air inlet.
The '60s Batmobile was 'turbine powered' with flame out of the central exhaust. There was a checklist after they'd get in the Batmobile... carefully clicking their seat belts first... that involved "Turbines to Speed!"
The 'Tumbler' seen in the Nolan films also has a jet booster on the rear, though this only seems to be used occasionally for jumps and other speed boosts as needed, and the vehicle's main powerplant is a 350 (5.7L) Chevy V8.
OvermodThe '60s Batmobile was 'turbine powered' with flame out of the central exhaust. There was a checklist after they'd get in the Batmobile... carefully clicking their seat belts first... that involved "Turbines to Speed!"
Suspect Hollywood and literary license.
Overmod The '60s Batmobile was 'turbine powered' with flame out of the central exhaust. There was a checklist after they'd get in the Batmobile... carefully clicking their seat belts first... that involved "Turbines to Speed!"
If I remember correctly, the base vehicle for the Batmobile was a Lincoln concept car that was used in another movie prior...
I'm sure a web search will fill in the blanks.
Lincoln Futura (built by Ghia, and very forward-looking for 1955). Original engine was a 368 Y-block.
George Barris, King of the Kustomizers, was one of the most famous people in the world to an eight-year-old in the mid-Sixties, and his rebuild of the car is still in my opinion the best design of Batmobile.
Probably the wildest of the turbines is one of the least-known: the two turbine Eldorados in the late 1970s. Coal-burning gas-turbine Eldorados. (You can save the UP 8080 jokes; it used SRC nearly as fine and black as copier toner.) Loudest sound was the buzz of the hopper vibrator that kept the fuel from bridging...
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