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“Metering” traffic?

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“Metering” traffic?
Posted by Lithonia Operator on Wednesday, April 13, 2022 7:08 AM

I read this article:

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/union-pacific-to-begin-metering-traffic-if-shippers-dont-reduce-car-inventory/

What does this mean??

The RRs want the shippers to ship less? (!) Not hold cars so long?

What is metering?

Still in training.


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Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, April 13, 2022 7:21 AM

I think Jeff answered this in another thread.....located below....

https://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/292126.aspx

I believe it was basically to manage their private car fleets better so they do not surge in volume onto the railroad network at various times but instead are more efficiently managed.  

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Posted by Lithonia Operator on Wednesday, April 13, 2022 10:02 AM

Thanks, Milwaukee.

Still in training.


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Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, April 13, 2022 2:36 PM

Instead of blaming customers, perhaps it would be better to question why UP is short of power and crews in the first place?

This is a classic PSR trope, force customers to ship the same number of cars each and every day, and work 7 days a week.  If they don't want to comply, the railroad will force them to or find a way to get rid of that business.  Eventually perfect balance will be achieved, right?

As for the pattern of customers adding cars to their fleets as rail service slows, perhaps we should question why rail service is slowing?  If UP couldn't move the original number or cars effectively perhaps THEY are the ones at fault here.

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, April 13, 2022 2:53 PM

SD70Dude

As for the pattern of customers adding cars to their fleets as rail service slows, perhaps we should question why rail service is slowing?  If UP couldn't move the original number or cars effectively perhaps THEY are the ones at fault here.

SD70 I believe you are correct.  Slower trains mean longer times from a product picked up by a local to delivery to consignee.  Example: If it now takes 2 day longer for my 1 car a day needed product then I have to rent or get somehow 2 more cars so my product arrives for my manufacturing needs.

Now the crew shortage will not be solved overnight.  However, bringing more locos on line and allowing crews to use the additional HP to move trains faster can be quickly implemented.  It ain't rocket science.

IMO the RRs limiting cars is making builders to either slow or stop assembly lines for a few days.  The USA does not need this slowing as it will increase the inflation rate and be detrimental to overall US security.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Thursday, April 14, 2022 11:52 AM

SD70Dude
Instead of blaming customers, perhaps it would be better to question why UP is short of power and crews in the first place? This is a classic PSR trope, force customers to ship the same number of cars each and every day, and work 7 days a week.  If they don't want to comply, the railroad will force them to or find a way to get rid of that business.  Eventually perfect balance will be achieved, right? As for the pattern of customers adding cars to their fleets as rail service slows, perhaps we should question why rail service is slowing?  If UP couldn't move the original number or cars effectively perhaps THEY are the ones at fault here.

A while back before he became deceased my Father used to be a Senior Executive at a middle sized manufacturer of plastic parts as well as CPA.    The problem you run into in both sides of that business was attempting to balance just in time deliveries, usually most clients would blow it with their forecasts and find they have a shortage of parts that needed my fathers company to call in more employees and material to produce in a "we need it yesterday, type crisis".    Other times they would blow it and order too much, then they had to find an intermedate storage location to store the excess inventory because their existing warehouses were setup for properly forecasted just in time deliveries.  So they would plead for my Father's employer to hold the order or attempt to delay acceptance of it or change the shipping destination last minute.

On a Nationwide scale I can see how the just in time "Oops factor" can play a role here with car under and over supply and the resulting attempts to rebalance.    Hence I tend to think that perhaps PSR exacerbates the issues, I am not convinced the issue goes away without PSR.    I suspect Nationwide we never really got a handle on the just in time delivery system we were attempting to copy from Japan.

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Thursday, April 14, 2022 12:15 PM

As I read about trains stalling because the company rules preclude the use of the idle engine in the consist, I think that that’s a clue to the problem. Use the power to get the train over the road! Penny wise and $ stupid.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, April 14, 2022 12:20 PM

Way different culture over there with regard to scheduling.  Remember when one of their railways publicly apologized after a passenger train departed 20 seconds early?

Seems logical that they would treat freight transportation the same way.......

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, April 14, 2022 1:11 PM

CMStPnP

 

A while back before he became deceased my Father used to be a Senior Executive at a middle sized manufacturer of plastic parts as well as CPA.    The problem you run into in both sides of that business was attempting to balance just in time deliveries, usually most clients would blow it with their forecasts and find they have a shortage of parts that needed my fathers company to call in more employees and material to produce in a "we need it yesterday, type crisis".    Other times they would blow it and order too much, then they had to find an intermedate storage location to store the excess inventory because their existing warehouses were setup for properly forecasted just in time deliveries.  So they would plead for my Father's employer to hold the order or attempt to delay acceptance of it or change the shipping destination last minute.

 

You've just described the building materials industry in North America to a T. I'd guess that most every other industry is in about the same boat.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, April 14, 2022 1:30 PM

Murphy Siding
 
CMStPnP 

A while back before he became deceased my Father used to be a Senior Executive at a middle sized manufacturer of plastic parts as well as CPA.    The problem you run into in both sides of that business was attempting to balance just in time deliveries, usually most clients would blow it with their forecasts and find they have a shortage of parts that needed my fathers company to call in more employees and material to produce in a "we need it yesterday, type crisis".    Other times they would blow it and order too much, then they had to find an intermedate storage location to store the excess inventory because their existing warehouses were setup for properly forecasted just in time deliveries.  So they would plead for my Father's employer to hold the order or attempt to delay acceptance of it or change the shipping destination last minute. 

You've just described the building materials industry in North America to a T. I'd guess that most every other industry is in about the same boat.

And thus we have the 'supply chain' issues we have today, that have been exacerbated by the wide variety of Covid actions/reactions that have been implemented in the various states of the USA as well as each of the countries around the world in today's global marketplace.

Throw on top of all that incidents such as the MV Ever Given shutting down the Suez Canal for a week and the Ukrainian War aka. Putin's Folly - and you have anything but JIT reliability.

 

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by CMStPnP on Thursday, April 14, 2022 4:17 PM

SD70Dude

Way different culture over there with regard to scheduling.  Remember when one of their railways publicly apologized after a passenger train departed 20 seconds early?

Seems logical that they would treat freight transportation the same way......

Agree, that was the point I was trying to make is the JiT system that as a country we tried to copy from Japan has never worked as it does in Japan.    It was probably folly to attempt to copy it exactly vs inventing a hybrid system.   

Just look at the shutdowns of auto plants caused by the Canadian Trucker protests.    Hundreds of Millions of dollars lost that would not otherwise be the case if they had more slack in their inventory systems.   Or if the parts plants were built next to the assembly plants instead of hundreds of miles away or in another country altogether.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, April 14, 2022 6:21 PM

It's not getting over the road part that is the problem.  At least the biggest problem.

It's getting into and out of yards.  Before, most manifests were primarily built with cars for one destination.  They might have one, maybe two intermediate points that they picked up or set out cars.  Cars that were going to/from local customers.  Some of those origin/destination points were intermediate yards.  The reason they tried to limit intermediate work is because it ties up track time on the main as the train works the yards.

Now, most manifest trains are maid-of-all-work manifests.  Not only are they handling cars for intermediate points, but they "block swap" cars that are going through just to get it out of the large terminal yards to cut down on dwell time. They've tweaked the plans somewhat, not all work every intermediate point, but most formerly through trains work many more intermediate yards than they used too.  There's less trains, but they usually are a lot bigger than they used to be.

Putting together at an originating point, picking up and/or setting out at intermediate points, or putting away at a terminating point, especially when the trains are huge.  And at the intermediate yards it seems every train that needs to work all show up at once.  Sitting outside a yard, waiting for your turn - which might be a few hours, eats up crew time.  There's a reason  PSR is also known as "Pick up, Set out, Recrew."

Some of these huge trains are picking up and/or setting out blocks that are the size trains used to be.  It's not unheard of to handle in or out blocks of 80, 90 or more cars.  Most yard tracks, at terminal and intermediate points, don't have yard tracks capable of handling blocks that large, so you have to break them down.  Double, triple, even quadroupling in/out of yards is common.  It all takes time.  Throw in winter weather, or even long trains with only engines on the front, and it can take a lot longer to build up air pressure to do required air brake tests. 

Even better, have a train built with two solid* blocks located at different locations within the train that need to be set out, or pick up two solid blocks at a yard, and the entire train needs a class one initial terminal air brake inspection.

*A "solid block" is one that has been air tested, including safety inspection, and either kept on yard air or have been off air less than 24 hours.  A solid block can be split between two tracks if one track won't hold the block.  But when one block is in the yard on the north side of the main, the other block on the south side, one can be pretty confident in saying it's not one solid block.

Now while you have multiple trains working yards, what's the switch engine doing?  Depending on the yard arrangement, and if there's a train working both ends at the same time, nothing.  It can't move because the leads are occupied.  Back to back workers coming in mean they may not get tracks switched and cleared off so the next train has some place to set out.  I've read a few times on a recrew report where they flat out said they ran out of room to take more cars.  So trains were held out.  My favorite was when one said, "Too much train, not enough yard."

So, yes, I would like to be able to use more power on some trains to get over the road.  But it doesn't really matter to get over the road when it takes 4 or more hours to put a train together at an originating terminal (We originate on my territory two working trains.  The rest are through trains that work.), get over the road in 4 hours, and then sit, held out because the yard can't take you, for another 4 hours.  Usually they get even the largest trains at least to the point at a crew change where an outbound crew can come. 

Not always, though.  This morning coming home I passed two manifests tied down where they are going to have to call dog catch crews to drag them in.

Jeff                

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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Thursday, April 14, 2022 6:30 PM
 

CMStPnP

 

 
SD70Dude

Way different culture over there with regard to scheduling.  Remember when one of their railways publicly apologized after a passenger train departed 20 seconds early?

Seems logical that they would treat freight transportation the same way......

 

Agree, that was the point I was trying to make is the JiT system that as a country we tried to copy from Japan has never worked as it does in Japan.    It was probably folly to attempt to copy it exactly vs inventing a hybrid system.   

Just look at the shutdowns of auto plants caused by the Canadian Trucker protests.    Hundreds of Millions of dollars lost that would not otherwise be the case if they had more slack in their inventory systems.   Or if the parts plants were built next to the assembly plants instead of hundreds of miles away or in another country altogether.

 

 

The problem with JIT is that is was designed for limited geography. Japan being a small nation with little room to develop. Created JIT from the original Kanban concept. Use your Logistics providers for "in transit storage"

Here in the US when we had an inventory tax. Many saw this JIT opportunity to push warehousing onto logistics providers. Well we no longer have an inventory tax. Warehousing was curtailed in favor of pushing those cost onto LP's. Now the chickens have come home to roost... COVID exposed the JIT concept for what it is. It can't handle disruptions in the supply chain..

 
 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!

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