Trains.com

Intermodal trains may have major problems due to Suez canal disruption.

5813 views
153 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Denver / La Junta
  • 10,157 posts
Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, March 31, 2021 2:00 PM

Overmod

For those who don't use LinkedIn (a kind of professional social-networking system): the clip is a couple of wiener dogs in safety vests, shown digging in the sand with the 'stuck' ship's bow in the background, then happily receiving treats as we see the 'liberated' Ever Given gliding past in the background.

Sorry if this was a 'spoiler' for anyone... Whistling

 

Sorry - every attempt to separate the link to the video from Linked-In's feed failed this morning.  (and using scottish terriers to excavate would have drained the whole canal to the other side of the globe)Embarrassed

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Iowa
  • 3,290 posts
Posted by Semper Vaporo on Wednesday, March 31, 2021 4:23 PM

Convicted One

Perhaps I'll just settle for placing a flaming bag of organic fertilizer on the front porches of the major stockholders.  I don't suppose you want a share of that, too? Mischief 

I am sure I could contribute some of that material if you are in need of a little more.

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 12,961 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Wednesday, March 31, 2021 6:11 PM

Convicted One

 

 
Semper Vaporo
Should I then sue you to recover the losses I incur because of the settlement you got?

 

Not if my exit strategy pays off. The key is to sue, win, set up the payoff as part of a trust based in South Dakota, and then file personal bankruptcy. And hopefully die before you can

untangle South Dakota trust protections. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Time 

 

South Dakota citizen approves, I guess.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 12,961 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Wednesday, March 31, 2021 6:13 PM

BaltACD

 

 
CSSHEGEWISCH
And just which court would have jurisdiction??  The canal is in Egypt, the ship is Japanese-owned (I think) and we never heard which flag the ship flew under.

 

Operating under a Panama flag, I understand; with a Indian crew.

 

I thought there was also a German management team somewhere in the mix as well?

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 6,774 posts
Posted by Euclid on Wednesday, March 31, 2021 7:22 PM

Murphy Siding

Thinking out loud, bear with me-

Let's say the ship was heading north in the north-south canal. The wind blows hard and turns the ship at an angle toward one shore or the other. The ship plows into the bank under power and buries the bow into the bank. Let's say the wind was out of the west. That could conveivably push the bow into the east bank. How did the tail end of the ship get buried into the west bank? Wouldn't the same wind tend to push the tail end east as well?

 

Here is how it was described in one of the detailed reports:

In your picture of the ship heading north, the wind blew it off center, to the west.  To get back to center, the crew steered at a shallow angle to the east.  But they steered too sharply and overcorrected.  So the ship angled off to the east, crossed over the center and continued angling to the east.  Then it struck the east bank at a fairly shallow angle of maybe 10-15 degrees to the centerline.  It dug into the bank and stopped abruptly.  The ship’s momentum then continued moving the ship by rotating it clockwise around the point where its bow had stuck into the bank as it stopped moving forward, and even somewhat after it had stopped moving forward, until the stern swung around and hooked into the west bank. 

It was reported that the ship was traveling at a relatively high rate of speed when this overcorrection and loss of control developed.  

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • 2,151 posts
Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Wednesday, March 31, 2021 8:17 PM

Deleted

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • 2,151 posts
Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Wednesday, March 31, 2021 8:19 PM

 Convicted One

Since your gif has position light signals, and they had incandescent lamps with amber lenses. they can't give the permissive/restricting indication with "lunar" (bluish white) color lamps. On the PRR, the left or right diagonals were all amber. All lamps were amber. When they started changing to red glass lenses in the 3:00 & 9:00 positions for s horizontal indication, the center lamp was extinguished. Then they went with green lenses at the 12:00 & 6:00 positions for a vertical indication and the center position was again extinguished. 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 21,980 posts
Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, March 31, 2021 8:40 PM

Electroliner 1935
permissive/restricting indication with "lunar"

B&O used lunar in the "backwards" lamps for restricting, although none of the CPLs at Deshler has those lunar lamps.  Restricting there now is shown on the CPLs with a red (horizontal) on the main disk and a top or bottom marker lit.

As an aside, the "Darth Vader" signals on the SW transfer have a lunar in the middle head to indicate restricting.

Now back to ships...

 

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 20,389 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, March 31, 2021 8:57 PM

tree68
 
Electroliner 1935
permissive/restricting indication with "lunar" 

B&O used lunar in the "backwards" lamps for restricting, although none of the CPLs at Deshler has those lunar lamps.  Restricting there now is shown on the CPLs with a red (horizontal) on the main disk and a top or bottom marker lit.

The Lunar White restricting on B&O signals was the entry to unsignalled territory.  The horizontal red with top or bottom white marker is restricting into SIGNALED territory.

The Lunar White restricting was also used in dark TTTO territory as a Distant Signal to a interlocking with a absolute signal.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 21,980 posts
Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, March 31, 2021 9:34 PM

BaltACD
The Lunar White restricting on B&O signals was the entry to unsignalled territory.  The horizontal red with top or bottom white marker is restricting into SIGNALED territory. The Lunar White restricting was also used in dark TTTO territory as a Distant Signal to a interlocking with a absolute signal.

Thanks for the clarification.  Current signal charts don't make that distinction.

It also clears up some confusion - it's well known that the B&O CPLs don't have the lamps they'll never use for a given location.  Which is why the CPLs at Deshler don't have the lunars.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 20,389 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, March 31, 2021 9:50 PM

tree68
 
BaltACD
The Lunar White restricting on B&O signals was the entry to unsignalled territory.  The horizontal red with top or bottom white marker is restricting into SIGNALED territory. The Lunar White restricting was also used in dark TTTO territory as a Distant Signal to a interlocking with a absolute signal. 

Thanks for the clarification.  Current signal charts don't make that distinction.

It also clears up some confusion - it's well known that the B&O CPLs don't have the lamps they'll never use for a given location.  Which is why the CPLs at Deshler don't have the lunars.

Charts and rules don't make that distinction.  Observed installations over the years did.

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • 3,545 posts
Posted by Convicted One on Wednesday, March 31, 2021 11:30 PM

Electroliner 1935
When they started changing to red glass lenses in the 3:00 & 9:00 positions for s horizontal indication, the center lamp was extinguished. Then they went with green lenses at the 12:00 & 6:00 positions for a vertical indication and the center position was again extinguished. 

 

 

There, that what you were looking for?

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 21,980 posts
Posted by tree68 on Thursday, April 1, 2021 9:07 AM

BaltACD
Charts and rules don't make that distinction.  Observed installations over the years did.

Ah - the thot plickens!  

Thanks!

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 20,389 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, April 1, 2021 9:44 AM

Back to the Ever Given - One thing that is being overlooked about the speed that the vessel was operating - the slower the vessel goes through the water the less rudder authority is created in order to control the vessel.  Vessels need movement through the water to be able to steer.  When you have a single prop, single rudder vessel of 400m long you need to have rudder authority.

Secondarily there are fluid dynamic issues between the vessel and the banks and bottom of the canal that inject additional issues into the control of the ULCC's navigating the canal.

Reports I have read indicate that the normal passage time through the canal is 12 to 16 hours and the canal is operated by fleeting vessels to meet and pass each other at the Great Bitter Lake as most of the canal on either side of the lake is a single stream.

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: Flyover Country
  • 2,945 posts
Posted by York1 on Thursday, April 1, 2021 10:18 AM

I haven't read through all the posts, so if this has been covered, forgive me.

Do the ships go through the canal with the ship's captain running the ship, or does the canal require a pilot to come on board?

York1 John       

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 12,961 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, April 1, 2021 10:44 AM

York1

I haven't read through all the posts, so if this has been covered, forgive me.

Do the ships go through the canal with the ship's captain running the ship, or does the canal require a pilot to come on board?

 

I've read they have Egyptian pilots.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 20,389 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, April 1, 2021 11:36 AM

York1
I haven't read through all the posts, so if this has been covered, forgive me.

Do the ships go through the canal with the ship's captain running the ship, or does the canal require a pilot to come on board?

Canal transit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwdU2cYRbnM

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • 123 posts
Posted by adkrr64 on Thursday, April 1, 2021 11:38 AM

Murphy Siding
I've read they have Egyptian pilots.

Do the pilots actually take the helm, or are they there to guide and oversee the regular ship's crew as they handle the ship?

On the RR, sometimes the pilots actually run the locomotives and sometimes they just advise the engineer, depending on the situation.

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 12,356 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, April 1, 2021 12:07 PM

Since each ship has different handling characteristics, the pilots pass instructions to the helm and crew as appropriate.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: Flyover Country
  • 2,945 posts
Posted by York1 on Thursday, April 1, 2021 3:32 PM

Thanks!

York1 John       

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 6,774 posts
Posted by Euclid on Friday, April 2, 2021 4:26 PM

The most recent summary I read says the ship steering became uncontrollable in a 46 mph side wind.   

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: NW Wisconsin
  • 3,784 posts
Posted by beaulieu on Friday, April 2, 2021 4:27 PM

Regarding the ship's ownership and management.

The ship is chartered to Evergreen Marine Corp. a Taiwanese company.

The ship is co-owned by Luster Maritime and Higaki Sangyo Kaisha both of Japan

The ship is registered in and flagged in Panama

The ship's Master and crew are from India

The ship is insured in the United Kingdom.

The Court that will hear the case will be an Admiralty Court in London.

I believe that the Owners have declared the ship and its cargo a total loss and have declared "General Average". This is due to the likely cost of freeing the ship, damage to the ship, and any fines imposed by the Canal Authority.

I hope that the owners of the ship's cargo have separate "Cargo Insurance" as they might lose all of it.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 20,389 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Friday, April 2, 2021 7:54 PM

beaulieu
Regarding the ship's ownership and management.

The ship is chartered to Evergreen Marine Corp. a Taiwanese company.

The ship is co-owned by Luster Maritime and Higaki Sangyo Kaisha both of Japan

The ship is registered in and flagged in Panama

The ship's Master and crew are from India

The ship is insured in the United Kingdom.

The Court that will hear the case will be an Admiralty Court in London.

I believe that the Owners have declared the ship and its cargo a total loss and have declared "General Average". This is due to the likely cost of freeing the ship, damage to the ship, and any fines imposed by the Canal Authority.

I hope that the owners of the ship's cargo have separate "Cargo Insurance" as they might lose all of it.

If one features that the US legal system is a labyrinth - it is just a appetizer in comparison maritime law and its application amongst all the participating countries and their multiplicity of claims when something goes 'wrong'.

Ship happens!

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 20,389 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Friday, April 2, 2021 7:55 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH
Since each ship has different handling characteristics, the pilots pass instructions to the helm and crew as appropriate.

Starting a marine diesel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mFmCxOjY_A

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Sunny (mostly) San Diego
  • 1,856 posts
Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Saturday, April 3, 2021 10:21 AM

BaltACD
If one features that the US legal system is a labyrinth - it is just a appetizer in comparison maritime law and its application amongst all the participating countries and their multiplicity of claims when something goes 'wrong'.

If you truly want to get the mother of all headaches, read any selected appeals court case involving maritime law. My assessment is a body of law developed over hundreds of years by jurists under the influence of LSD.

Just sayin’.

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 10,201 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, April 4, 2021 7:16 PM

There are going to be a lot of unhapy shippers if their container(s) is held up due to maritine law.  I can imagine any where between 1000 and 5000 shippers.  Then you have the secondary and third ultimate receivers of  parts..   

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 20,389 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, April 4, 2021 8:28 PM

blue streak 1
There are going to be a lot of unhapy shippers if their container(s) is held up due to maritine law.  I can imagine any where between 1000 and 5000 shippers.  Then you have the secondary and third ultimate receivers of  parts..   

Can the parties argue in Egyptian?  Especially Egyptian's that only want to get paid top Euro for their damages both real and imagined.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 20,389 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, April 7, 2021 1:05 PM
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: NW Wisconsin
  • 3,784 posts
Posted by beaulieu on Thursday, April 8, 2021 5:56 PM

Neither the ship nor the containers onboard are going anywhere soon. Likely they are hostages of the Egyptian Government(on behalf of the Canal Authority). They contents of the containers will likely be ransomed off at some date in the future if they contents are of a nature as to be copywrited.

  • Member since
    July 2016
  • 1,179 posts
Posted by Backshop on Thursday, April 8, 2021 7:31 PM

I know the ship could be sold but would they actually have any legal reason to seize the contents of the containers?  The contents don't belong to the ship owners or operators.

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy