I have seen some people almost do this but they usually stop before the pavement ends. Even in the dark, I don't know how you can get confused by where to turn when you have crossing signals right there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDjOoCY_7ms
Alcohol.
Multiple videos for the same location, it appears that is not an uncommon problem for this crossing?
I find it intersting that, despite police on the scene, the gates go down and the train approaches...
Makes one wonder if anyone called the emergency phone nimber posted on the crossing gate installation....
from the Far East of the Sunset Route
(In the shadow of the Huey P Long bridge)
It seems interesting how the train managed to stop so soon after hitting the car. Seems to support the claims of some members here that the official policy is to wait until after contact before going into emergency.
JC UPTONMakes one wonder if anyone called the emergency phone nimber posted on the crossing gate installation....
It's not always the fastest process - you start with a call-taker, who has to figure out where the crossing is, and which dispatcher to notify.
The train almost stopped in time. Based on how long the horn was being blown, they gave it the old college try. What's the normal speed through there?
The first unit there (white SUV) appeared to be FD rather than PD. Doesn't mean the call shouldn't have been made. Around here the FD dispatcher would call the railroad, not the person on the scene.
Given the street running in Ashland, and the apparent frequent interactions between trains and vehicles there, you'd think dispatch would have the railroad on speed dial.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Convicted OneSeems to support the claims of some members here that the official policy is to wait until after contact before going into emergency.
As Tree said, they almost got it stopped in time.
When you watch the video, the rate of deceleration appears to change after contact is made. I doubt that the drag of the vehicle made much difference in the momentum.
Overmod I have some technical reading for you to do.
Glad that I could summons you out of hybernation, tho...
Convicted OneGlad that I could summons you out of hybernation, tho...
Convicted OneWhen you watch the video, the rate of deceleration appears to change after contact is made.
Some graphic indication of the nature of high-speed train braking is in the LRC accident video from 1991, where it is obvious the two trains are going to collide right up to nearly the moment the passenger train stops.
See the notes about 'cab lights going red' when GEs are put in emergency. That would place the faster deceleration rate starting very shortly after the 'red light', with emergency pressure applying to clamped shoes already in full contact through fully tensioned linkages via the full service set.
Lithonia OperatorAlcohol.
Probably coupled with a voiced GPS instruction to 'Turn Left'.
Voiced GPS instruction 'can' seem very instant to execute the instruction now!
Track speed through Ashland is 45 MPH. With engines stopping within 150 feet of the impact, it is evident that the train had been braking for a period of time before arriving at the scene.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Someone mentioned a policy of not going into emergency until contact was made.
So, I was contemplating that the engineer might have been doing everything he could to stop, ..up to the point of contact, and then just went into emergency upon contact.
Sort of like "throwing out the anchor" lol.
How do we know the train was not in emergency? Lack of squealing noise and brake smoke?
If he was not in emergency, maybe that's because the train had been contacted (police to dispatcher to engineer) and told the car was no longer occupied. And the engineer determined that the impact speed would be low.
Convicted One Someone mentioned a policy of not going into emergency until contact was made.
I have no opinion on what's the best policy.
But when the Amtrak engineer that struck the CSX employees did that, she got crucified on this forum.
Lithonia OperatorHow do we know the train was not in emergency?
I don't know that. Just speculating in conjunction with the observation that the train appears to slow down much faster after contact.
So, perhaps the engineer was using manual means to apply the break up to the point of contact? And then went into emergency upon contact?
And I hope we won't get into some dreadful game of semantics over ~they don't call it "manual"~...
Convicted One Multiple videos for the same location, it appears that is not an uncommon problem for this crossing?
It's not uncommon at all. I know exactly where that grade crossing is and have driven over it many times, in daylight and after dark. So let me tell you, you really have to have your head up your a$$ to foul up like that driver did, and like other drivers do. No sympathy. At least no-one was killed or injured.
At least the car was removed from the tracks courtesy of CSX!
I assume the engineer made an emergency application about the point where the train was first visible in the video. The first indication of trouble seen by the crew was probably the flashing lights of the squad cars near the track. They also may have seen the car about the same time.
If the train was passing through that area at only say 20 mph, they may have just made a service application. If so, that was not enough to stop in time.
Convicted OneSo, perhaps the engineer was using manual means to apply the brake up to the point of contact? And then went into emergency upon contact?
And I suspect it is fully logical that the train would initially be put into full extended-range dynamic, blended with service if possible, rather than straight into 'emergency' (especially if there are any sections of lightly-loaded or baretable cars in the consist) to get 'way off' the train, followed by emergency if it became apparent at lower speed that a collision was still likely. I obviously default to the actual engineers here as to how 'correct' braking in this sort of situation is best made.
On the other hand, nailing emergency after actual collision is, as it was in the case of Sahara and the two conductors, pointless: not really better than feel-good sentimentality or CYA.
I detect the presence of a flammable accelerant of sorts -- ethanol -- in this accident...
Lithonia OperatorBut when the Amtrak engineer that struck the CSX employees did that, she got crucified on this forum.
By one person.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
zugmann Lithonia Operator But when the Amtrak engineer that struck the CSX employees did that, she got crucified on this forum. By one person.
Lithonia Operator But when the Amtrak engineer that struck the CSX employees did that, she got crucified on this forum.
The criticism was completely justified, and it was not by just one person.
What's really amazing to me is how the car driver could have done that when the whole place is so well lit.
I recall a similar layout in Oakland CA, down by Jack London Square. Back in the day, at least, it wasn't lit; so the poor screwup at least had SOME excuse. And, yup, I saw cars "parked" there.
Ed
EuclidThe criticism was completely justified, and it was not by just one person.
That's your opinion - which I think is wrong. But that's my opinion.
Car hit the ballast at 18:22:35 Train appears at 18:26:20 - less than 4 minutes after the car fouled the right of way. There are no first responders on scene until the edit places the train in the scene - no way, from the video, to know when first responders initiated communications to the railroad.
Train was braking long before the incident was visible to the train crew. Train impacted the car at 18:27:10 and was fully stopped at 18:27:20.
Notice that both the PD & FD first responders moved their vehicles out of the way before impact.
Normal chain of communications is First Responder to their own dispatch center, FRDC to CSX PSCC command center, PSCC command center to BD (RF&P Train Dispatcher), BD Dispatcher to train.
zugmann Euclid The criticism was completely justified, and it was not by just one person. That's your opinion - which I think is wrong. But that's my opinion.
Euclid The criticism was completely justified, and it was not by just one person.
What is your opinion as to why it is wrong to criticize that engineer for waiting until striking the two empolyees before applying emergency braking? Why should she have waited?
I'm not engaging with you on this. Sorry.
I think it was great the way they first responders had all the flashers going. In addition to warning motorists and pedestrians, it may have also let the train engineer know sooner than he otherwise would have that there was a situation there, and probably not one that was going to resolve itself in time.
7j43k What's really amazing to me is how the car driver could have done that when the whole place is so well lit.
Alcohol, pot or other drugs, texting, cell phone usage or other ways of being distracted while driving. Maybe never having been to that crossing before, or never before in daylight. Or a combination of some of the above. And don't rule out dumb.
zugmann Euclid The criticism was completely justified, and it was not by just one person.
BaltACDTrack speed through Ashland is 45 MPH. With engines stopping within 150 feet of the impact, it is evident that the train had been braking for a period of time before arriving at the scene. Add Quote to your Post
Agree, that and it's night time and the locomotive engineer is not letting up on the horn at all, then you have the obvious police car strobes next to an upcomming crossing.....I would think he would slow down just for the potential of emergency people being in close proximity even if he didn't see the car on the tracks from a distance.
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