Crew size

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, February 14, 2020 8:01 AM

SD70Dude
We only hold our turn in seniority for one year.  After that we can still go back to the ranks, but would start over at the bottom of the seniority list. 

Before Hunter came to CN, promoted former unionized employees would hold their turn in seniority forever as long as they continued to pay union dues.

So Canadian Unions let Hunter dictate their membership and seniority requirements?  Or did the Unions say F...U to their members that accepted promotion.

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Posted by SFbrkmn on Friday, February 14, 2020 1:27 PM

This entire cartoon that the carriers developed is not just of the craft of condr. This also involved the future of the engr craft. The whole idea behind this is throwing everyone off the train, in stages. The enginers cannot be touched until  condrs go. The craft of condr is the last line of defense.Once we go, then one or two contracts down the road, you will know what will be next.

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Posted by Sunnyland on Friday, February 14, 2020 3:35 PM

I have a friend who is  a retired engineer, started with Q as fireman when he was 16, and it was 3 years before he could move to right side. He went thru many transitions from BN to BNSF. Even worked for C&S.  He and his union BLET is very much against only 1 person in a cab. He has been in situations when he needed an extra set of eyes or ears, and he worked in the days when they still had head brakeman and 2-3 men in caboose.  Now when  a train breaks apart or goes into emergency, the conductor has to get out and walk the train maybe a couple of miles to find the problem and try to fix it. An engineer  can never leave the cab so there has been talk about a conductor on call in a roving van coming to look and try to fix problem. But many tracks are in rural areas where there is no road nearby, so the conductor might have to walk a mile or two before he even gets to the train.  Does not sound like a very efficient way to run a train or a railroad, it's all about the bottom line and saving the money paid for second crew person. They don't seem to really care about safety or employees being too tired and should not be working.    On Amtrak I heard they use only one person in cab if run is less than 500 miles and most of them don't run that far with all the crew change points. City of New Orleans changes engineers 4 times on run from Chicago to NOLA, new one at Carbondale, then Memphis and then Jackson.Conductors only change 3 times on the run, so they travel farther.   Maybe another person in cab would have prevented the terrible crash in Philly in 2015 when Bostian had lost awareness of where he was, another set of eyes might have helped and saved lives.  Not a good idea as far as I am concerned.  

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, February 14, 2020 3:42 PM

Sunnyland
Maybe another person in cab would have prevented the terrible crash in Philly in 2015 when Bostian had lost awareness of where he was, another set of eyes might have helped and saved lives.  Not a good idea as far as I am concerned.  

Remember, Bostain had made the trip from NYC to DC operating a Acela run and without a rest period, was turned back on a NE Regional run with a Sprinter from DC back to NYC.  I believe the run between NYC and DC is 228 miles in each direction.  The runs between NYC and DC are normally less than 4 hours.

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Friday, February 14, 2020 4:41 PM

Sunnyland
Maybe another person in cab would have prevented the terrible crash in Philly in 2015 when Bostian had lost awareness of where he was, another set of eyes might have helped and saved lives.  Not a good idea as far as I am concerned.  

While I think freight trains should have two experienced persons for safety, I doubt that they are necessary on Passenger trains where the schedule is regular and other crew are available on board. When people say that the second person would prevent x or y, I remember the Newark Bay CRRNJ accident in 1958.

The Newark Bay rail accident occurred on September 15, 1958 in Newark BayNew Jersey. A Central Railroad of New Jersey (CRRNJ) morning commuter train, #3314, ran through a restricting and a stop signalderailed, and slid off the open Newark Bay lift bridge. Both diesel locomotives and the first two coaches plunged into Newark Bay and sank immediately, killing 48 people and injuring the same number.[1] A third coach, snagged by its rear truck (bogie), hung precariously off the lift bridge for two hours before it also toppled into the water. As the locomotive crew was killed, the cause of the accident was never determined, and was never reinvestigated.


The bridge (Lift) was part way up and the counterweight not yet blocking the track and there was no cab signal nor ATS to automatically stop the train. What good did having a fireman do? Were both asleep? The recent CSX derailment near Elkhorn City is one where two crew persons should be available even though access is available. I don't know how accesable the ROW is where Indiana RR operates but they appear to be successful. And I think that any operation where there is no good access to the ROW from a highway should have two persons aboard. If for some reason the engineer becomes unable to operate the train and can't call for help (say they choke on something or have a stroke, there should be someone to call for help. On a passenger train, the conductor will be available when the dead man device or alerter stops the train, but in the middle of nowhere (such as a canyon or in a tunnel) on a freight, who's going to call for help.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, February 14, 2020 10:15 PM

SFbrkmn

This entire cartoon that the carriers developed is not just of the craft of condr. This also involved the future of the engr craft. The whole idea behind this is throwing everyone off the train, in stages. The enginers cannot be touched until  condrs go. The craft of condr is the last line of defense.Once we go, then one or two contracts down the road, you will know what will be next.

 

We're all just 'train trash' anyway.  That's how some in management/management support people in the HQ building see us.  Except for the unnamed senior executive who allegedly said we're just "overpaid McDonald's workers."

I think there's a few on here that probably feel that way, too.

Jeff

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Posted by SD70Dude on Friday, February 14, 2020 10:28 PM

BaltACD
SD70Dude
We only hold our turn in seniority for one year.  After that we can still go back to the ranks, but would start over at the bottom of the seniority list. 

Before Hunter came to CN, promoted former unionized employees would hold their turn in seniority forever as long as they continued to pay union dues.

So Canadian Unions let Hunter dictate their membership and seniority requirements?  Or did the Unions say F...U to their members that accepted promotion.

Unfortunately, there was support for this action from both management and the union leadership at the time.  Hunter didn't want managers to have the option of going back to the ranks, and there were certain individuals within the union who did not like employees being able to come back from management 20 years later and bump someone who they had been supervising.

Having had to deal with 'off the street' trainmasters for many years now, many of those who supported that decision at the time now realize how wrong they were.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by SD70Dude on Friday, February 14, 2020 10:29 PM

jeffhergert
SFbrkmn

This entire cartoon that the carriers developed is not just of the craft of condr. This also involved the future of the engr craft. The whole idea behind this is throwing everyone off the train, in stages. The enginers cannot be touched until  condrs go. The craft of condr is the last line of defense.Once we go, then one or two contracts down the road, you will know what will be next.

We're all just 'train trash' anyway.  That's how some in management/management support people in the HQ building see us.  Except for the unnamed senior executive who allegedly said we're just "overpaid McDonald's workers."

I think there's a few on here that probably feel that way, too.

Jeff

Surely you've heard Hunter's nicknames for us?  (I can't print them here)

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, February 14, 2020 10:44 PM

SD70Dude

 

 
jeffhergert
SFbrkmn

This entire cartoon that the carriers developed is not just of the craft of condr. This also involved the future of the engr craft. The whole idea behind this is throwing everyone off the train, in stages. The enginers cannot be touched until  condrs go. The craft of condr is the last line of defense.Once we go, then one or two contracts down the road, you will know what will be next.

We're all just 'train trash' anyway.  That's how some in management/management support people in the HQ building see us.  Except for the unnamed senior executive who allegedly said we're just "overpaid McDonald's workers."

I think there's a few on here that probably feel that way, too.

Jeff

 

 

Surely you've heard Hunter's nicknames for us?  (I can't print them here)

 

No, but you can PM me.  I can just imagine.

Although, he didn't believe in single person crews.  Go figure.

Jeff 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Friday, February 14, 2020 10:50 PM

jeffhergert
SD70Dude
jeffhergert
SFbrkmn

This entire cartoon that the carriers developed is not just of the craft of condr. This also involved the future of the engr craft. The whole idea behind this is throwing everyone off the train, in stages. The enginers cannot be touched until  condrs go. The craft of condr is the last line of defense.Once we go, then one or two contracts down the road, you will know what will be next.

We're all just 'train trash' anyway.  That's how some in management/management support people in the HQ building see us.  Except for the unnamed senior executive who allegedly said we're just "overpaid McDonald's workers."

I think there's a few on here that probably feel that way, too.

Jeff

Surely you've heard Hunter's nicknames for us?  (I can't print them here)

No, but you can PM me.  I can just imagine.

Although, he didn't believe in single person crews.  Go figure.

Jeff 

I'll see what I can do.  The forum software will probably automatically censor one of them.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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