steve-in-kvilleI remember when our county, and those surrounding us, went to digital paging and a trunked radio system. Gone are the days of knowing every fire/ems station's tones!
We're maintaining the analog paging here, so knowing the tones will still be a thing (I had a dog that knew our tones....).
One of the counties across the river (Canada) went to digital repeated (not trunked) and POCSAG paging. I'm working on a decoder for that, but haven't got it built yet.
While not everyone has a scanner, there is something to be said for the public knowing what's going on - they understand that their first responders are out there doing what they do best.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Regards - Steve
In the Toledo area, there is chatter on CSX and NS pretty much 24/7. I used to live a lot closer to the yards than I do now, and I used to be able to hear the handheld units carried by the yard workers. The best days of rail scanning were back when Conrail was still around and the arguments that train crews had with dispatchers were pretty amusing.
Big BillBut, when they went to trunking, I had several other hobbies that precluded spending the money on new scanners.
The technology of public service radio was stable for many years - a radio purchased fifty years ago could still communicate with a radio bought today.
Trunking (and other forms of digital communications) has changed all of that. There are numerous flavors of digital - P25 (Phase 1 and Phase 2), DMR (MOTOTRBO), NXDN, Open Sky - and that's just the commercial stuff. Amateur radio has several other modes in use.
Most of the older technologies are scannable, given the appropriate receiver. I have two scanners (one's in the truck) that will handle our P25 system when it goes active. It will also do DMR. I think with a software upgrade, it will do NXDN, which will be the digital mode of choice for the railroads.
What it won't do (and no scanner out there right now will) is Open Sky, which technology hasn't been released to the scanner manufacturers (and may never be). At least one law enforcement agency likes it for that very reason. One of these days maybe someone will reverse engineer it.
On the fire side - many trunked systems having a volunteer base are using their old analog frequency (or obtaining a new one) for paging. Not many pagers available that will decode the signal directly from trunked.
I bought a Radioshack portable scanner while living in Fresno in the mid 1970s. Used it for years while chasing trains. After moving to Colorado could not get much train chatter at home since too far away from most railroad transmitters, but used it when going to Moffat Tunnel, Palmer Lake, Sherman Hill area of Wyoming, and many other places.
Scanner quit working a few years ago, and decided at my age not to buy a new one since police departments and fire departments have gone to different form of transmitters and can not listen to with usual scanners as I used to. No longer try to monitor train chatter, because I do not chase trains much anymore.
I used to be a pretty rabid scanner listener, before damn near everyone went to trunking.
I had several desktop scanners (including an Icom R7000, pre-ban), a couple of Radio Shacks, and a few handhelds. Roof-top discone and long-line antennae brought in the signals.
Here in Phoenix, the vast majority of RR chatter was the ordinary, mundane type, and not much worth listening to, unless I wanted to go out and watch the trains.
The real action was police & fire (as is to be expected).
Several times, I'd listen to a police action, then read about it in the paper, and wonder if they were talking about the same incident. (yep, newspaper; it was that long ago.)
I was so active in the scanner community that a local TV station did a short piece on scanning with me. it took under 5 minutes on screen, but they spent several hours listening to just some of what was available, including Marine landing exercises in CA, and USAF refueling chatter from over Utah.
But, when they went to trunking, I had several other hobbies that precluded spending the money on new scanners.
[Edited because I can't type.]
Paul of Covington Ulrich When I was a kid I had a great big vaccum tube radio in my room. Used to make a game out of trying to get far off radio stations late at night... That sounds like me. Many local stations (New Orleans) signed off around midnight, which left a lot of clear air. Farthest I got was San Francisco, but I also got a lot of stations up in the midwest.
Ulrich When I was a kid I had a great big vaccum tube radio in my room. Used to make a game out of trying to get far off radio stations late at night...
That sounds like me. Many local stations (New Orleans) signed off around midnight, which left a lot of clear air. Farthest I got was San Francisco, but I also got a lot of stations up in the midwest.
Remember back when local tv stations signed off at night? Sometimes they would put up a test pattern after the obliatory National Anthem. And that you used to be able to use your tv as a lightning detector?
steve-in-kville I've always been a radio geek. Had a scanner since age 12 (back before encryption) and later got my amatuer license. In fact ham radio is what lead me to trains. I have all of NS's frequencies programmed in but rarely hear human voices. I don't monitor 24/7, either. Anyone else listen to the rail channels?
I've always been a radio geek. Had a scanner since age 12 (back before encryption) and later got my amatuer license. In fact ham radio is what lead me to trains. I have all of NS's frequencies programmed in but rarely hear human voices. I don't monitor 24/7, either.
Anyone else listen to the rail channels?
yes,i worked for the CNW for 22 yrs out of proviso yd as a car retarder operator
i still love to listen to rr radio chatter from all over the country.UP,BNSF,CN,CP
NS
For those who may not already know, there are many internet streaming sites around the country for both live railroad video, and radio monitoring. Railroadradio.net and broadcastify.com are two of the bigger ones. While most of the broadcastify sites are public service and first responder streams, there are quite a few rail-related.
PS, there are actually 400 channels crammed into the 160-161 mhz. vhf land mobile radio band, as there have been two splits of the old 25 hz. channels. The channel numbers are interleaved among the old ones. Are any of the railroads using the new digital channels, not really. Only usage we know of are some railroad police and big city commuter administrative users. Nothing digital has yet showed up between dispatchers and the road anywhere that we know of. But it is true, if you are listening to traditional FM analog on an older wideband scanner, the audio levels will have dropped almost to the point of making the radio unusable.
radio ranch I have been a rail fan since I was about three...I think! I was a shortwave listener in my early teens and an Amateur Radio Operator in my later teens. Fast forward...I have been an Extra Class for 51 years and had a very enjoyable 45 year career as a Radio Broadcast Engineer. Now retired, I have more time for railfanning as well. I use my 2 Meter handhelds and mobiles for monitoring the Railroads and ham radio, of course. I find a lot of rail radio traffic in my hometown of Kankakee, IL. My wife (also an Extra Class ham (she is also a good CW operator)) has her mobile programmed for rail monitoring also. One of our favorite dates was when I took her to see a train wreck! Life is good!
I have been a rail fan since I was about three...I think! I was a shortwave listener in my early teens and an Amateur Radio Operator in my later teens. Fast forward...I have been an Extra Class for 51 years and had a very enjoyable 45 year career as a Radio Broadcast Engineer. Now retired, I have more time for railfanning as well. I use my 2 Meter handhelds and mobiles for monitoring the Railroads and ham radio, of course. I find a lot of rail radio traffic in my hometown of Kankakee, IL. My wife (also an Extra Class ham (she is also a good CW operator)) has her mobile programmed for rail monitoring also. One of our favorite dates was when I took her to see a train wreck! Life is good!
BaltACD As a kid in Pittsburgh, I recall listening with regularity to some 50K Watt station from DesMoines, IA (I think). They had some Sunday night show that I enjoyed - and for the life of me I have no idea what its content actually was. I can also recall getting some station that was among the last to actually broadcast 'Radio Shows'. That I can recall - The Jack Benny Show, Amos & Andy, The Bickersons and others.
As a kid in Pittsburgh, I recall listening with regularity to some 50K Watt station from DesMoines, IA (I think). They had some Sunday night show that I enjoyed - and for the life of me I have no idea what its content actually was.
I can also recall getting some station that was among the last to actually broadcast 'Radio Shows'. That I can recall - The Jack Benny Show, Amos & Andy, The Bickersons and others.
radio ranchLife is good!
What, no 73 88 from a First?
Listening to AM radio @ night decades ago was a favorite of mine. From home in the metro Wichita area was able to pick up signals from STL, CHI, MSP, CIN, CLE, NWO, FTW, SAN, DEN, CIN, ATL, CLE, LOU, DMO, DET, PIT. These are all 50,000 watt clear channel signals. For example, KMOX at night covers 43 states, parts of Canada and Mexico.
Here in KS we have no 50,000 watt signals. Strongest is 5,000 watt WIBW in Topeka that coves all of KS during the day and portions of NE, CO, IA, MO and OK. KFDI in Wichita is 10,000 watt daytime only and covers a 200 miles circle from Wichita.
If you're the kind of ham who enjoys setting up SSTV and the like, I suggest looking at the SoftEOT Yahoo Group (not sure if they've joined the rout going to groups.io). All sorts of things you can do to receive, analyze, and decode some of the datastream used in communication: DPU too. Of course this isn't too useful if you just listen to it directly; it requires a computer.
There are actually almost 200 AAR channels now, with the new channels sandwiched in between the old. All are narrowband, as already mentioned. I have no idea how quickly the new channels are being deployed.
One reason for the various channels being used by different railroads is predecessor roads. F'rinstance, many former Conrail lines are still using the primary Conrail road frequency, no matter which railroad it is now.
About the only reason I can see for putting in all ~200 AAR channels is if you travel a lot to different areas. If you usually frequent the same places, just load up those frequencies - it's a lot easier to keep track of them that way, if you don't have the ability to add an alpha "tag" to the displayed information.
One problem with any railroad frequency is that not all railroads operate the same way - some call signals, some don't. Some are very chatty, some almost never talk on the air.
If a railroad uses EOT devices, you can consider including the EOT frequency to your scanlist. You'll have to listen carefully, but you can usually pick up the occasional data bursts if you're in range. It can help you know there's a train coming even if you're not hearing other radio traffic.
I don't do scanners, but I do sometimes tune in 'on line' via http://www.railroadradio.net/ when I'm viewing the area in question on ATCS Monitor.
Semper VaporoBTW: BaltACD, I find your animations cute when I 1st see them, the 2nd time they are mildly interesting, the 3rd time and thereafter they are downright annoying and I try to find a way to mask them from view if I want to read your postings. When I cannot mask them from view, I skip reading your words.
If you don't want to read what I have to say because of a animated GIF that is your perogative. Peace!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
The "Splinter" channels he is referring to are where the FCC decreed that the channels be split into two, with 1/2 the bandwidth. ALL RR's had to convert (or buy new) radios to use 1/2 the bandwidth and be capable of transmitting on the "in between" new channels. Older scanners probably cannot be tuned to the new frequencies and will have reduced volume on the original ones (due to the reduced bandwidth... loudness is based on how far from the center frequency the signal deviates within the limits of the bandwidth).
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BTW: BaltACD, I find your animations cute when I 1st see them, the 2nd time they are mildly interesting, the 3rd time and thereafter they are downright annoying and I try to find a way to mask them from view if I want to read your postings. When I cannot mask them from view, I skip reading your words.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Programming all the channels into the scanner is handy, but not very practical... It is nice to listen in on all the channels when in a new area and you don't know what channels are in use, but since many transmissions are extremely short ("That'll do") you will probably miss 90% of them because the radio is listening, one at a time, to all the other channels when the transmission occurs.
I have two scanners (Radio Shack Pro92 and Pro94 (I think!)) one has room for 500 channels in 10 banks of 50 and the other has room for 1000 channels in 20 groups of 50 (but you can only listen to one or the other half of the groups at a time)... and trying to scan 500 channels will take a minute to get through all of them, causing a much MUCH higher percentage of missed missives.
Also, since the splitting of the channels into two channels of 1/2 the bandwidth, the volume of the sound is much lower. I don't think very many RRs are using the new split off channels yet, though all the radios they use were modified (or trashed and new purchased) to handle the new frequeucies at the new narrower bandwidths.
Anyway, I have all the old 96 channels programmed into two banks, and have duplicated a couple of frequencies in the remaining slots for the dispatchers of the local RRs. I also have just the channels used most often by the local RRs in other banks (just 3 or 4 frequencies per bank and the rest of left empty to speed up the scanning so I miss fewer transmissions... but I still often catch the last split second of a transmission (".. ll do.") and a scritch of static after the transmitter quits and the time it takes my scanner to squelch the audio output.
I often hear only the dispatcher's side of any conversation because I am not close enough to the personell on the ground (with portables) to get their signal, (the dispatcher's side is coming from a tall tower with lotsa Watts of transmitting power). Locomotives will have more power than the hand-helds the utilty-man is using, but I am sitting in a metal car, with a portable using a "Rubber ducky" antenna, so I get the dispatcher well, locomotives okay - if they are close, but I have to be very close to the man on the ground to hear much of their side of any conversations.
steve-in-kvilleThanks for the link! I only have in my radio what is specific to NS. Would programming all 96 channels be beneficial? What about the splinter channels?
Railroad radios are programmed to access the 96 channels. There are no 'splinter' railroad radio channels. As long as you stay in your specific area and ONLY want the NS channels in your area, you are fine. If you go into other areas, you may find your 'NS Channels' are being used by other carriers and the NS is using different channels in those areas. Depending on the area - each carrier may have
1. A Road Channel
2. A Dispatcher's Channel
3. A MofW Channel
4. One or more Yard Channels depending on Yard(s) in a particular area.
Trains operating on the Main Track(s) are required to monitor the specific Road Channel for each territory as specified in Time Table Special Instructions. Trains moving from one territory to another are required to change their radio to the channel of the new territory. When Trains desire to contact the Train Dispatcher they 'tone him in' with the appropriate button on their radio - activation of that button tones the Dispatchers Channel lights the light of the appropriate radio tower on the Dispatchers radio console - Dispatcher radio consoles consist of multiple 'radio stations' that are arranged across the Dispatchers' territory. Locomotive radios have a range of upto 20 miles under ideal circumstance (circumstance are rarely ideal). Hand sets carried by Conductors have a range of at best 5 miles (generally much less).
No railroad has channels 'deeded' to them.
I live in the metropolitan Baltimore area. The railroads in the area are - CSX, Amtrak, NS, Canton and Tradepoint. CSX has two yards with Yardmasters and each have a Yard Channel. NS has their Bayview Yard with it's Yard Channel. Canton and Tradepoint are short line operators and may have only a road channel and one other for utility use. Each have radio channels assigned to them so they don't interfere with each other in normal use. With atmospheric 'skip' it is not unusual for 'chatter' from another railroad in another area of the country to come in on a local channel from time to time.
Railroads - all of them use radio frequencies that are within the 96 Channels that have been alloted to them by the FCC.
Frequencies get assigned to railroads in specific areas so that each railroad can conduct its own business operations in a geographical area without conflict with other railroads operating in the same area. Over the length and breadth of the Class 1 carriers, I suspect, each carrier will use the full spectrum of the 96 channels.
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?aid=7747
For all you railroaders: I suggest you have the BNSF frequencies if you are traveling on I-40 between ALB. and Barstow. You will be amazed at how the DS's and crews make the southern transcon function so well. 100 trains a day including Amtrak #3 and #4.
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