Tangential stuff:
NS's implementation of PSR, so far, has not tackled the intermodal network to any great extent. It focused on trying to smooth out flow by getting more customers up to 7 day a week service, more pre-blocking at origin serving yards, and running longer trains with more DPU.
Has it worked? Too soon to tell, but my hunch is it'll move the OR a few points (if they stop being stupid with train make-up on the Horseshoe Curve...)
They plan on tackling intermodal next, maybe pulling some low volume lanes into mixed service (they did a lot of this with multilevel trains already)
I still fear that they are focusing too much on the present and not enough on the future. Too much is being spent on share repurchase and dividends and not enough on raising the physical plant up to 21st Century standards. (Just making the southern half of the RR look and run like the Pittsburgh and Chicago Lines would be a nice start)
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Greyhounds my boss is a smaller customer for 2 of the Class 1 railroads just here in my town. We have SIT tracks at 3 locations in this town now. We are the ones that have the laid the tracks for the frack sand that gets hauled by NS out of this area since they have no direct rail access to the mine. We transload the sand from trucks into empty hoppers for NS and ship it out plus our plastics we get from them. We have doubled our shipments of hoppers on NS in the last year alone. Last year combined we shipped a combined 1200 cars empty and loaded on with it being a 50% split almost on both the BNSF and NS. That give you a clue how much plastics we are shipping out of here as custom blends. Let alone the sand which was 400 cars. Yet with PSR service level requirements that EHH demanded both my boss and the Ethanol plant that is at the end of the line on the NS will not be large enough to meet the service required to keep the line in business. This ethanol plant I am talking about produces just did an upgrade to produce 280 million gallons of ethonal a year.
Shadow the Cats owner Greyhounds my boss is a smaller customer for 2 of the Class 1 railroads just here in my town. We have SIT tracks at 3 locations in this town now. We are the ones that have the laid the tracks for the frack sand that gets hauled by NS out of this area since they have no direct rail access to the mine. We transload the sand from trucks into empty hoppers for NS and ship it out plus our plastics we get from them. We have doubled our shipments of hoppers on NS in the last year alone. Last year combined we shipped a combined 1200 cars empty and loaded on with it being a 50% split almost on both the BNSF and NS. That give you a clue how much plastics we are shipping out of here as custom blends. Let alone the sand which was 400 cars. Yet with PSR service level requirements that EHH demanded both my boss and the Ethanol plant that is at the end of the line on the NS will not be large enough to meet the service required to keep the line in business. This ethanol plant I am talking about produces just did an upgrade to produce 280 million gallons of ethonal a year.
So, what did EHH have to do with Norfolk Southern?
Also 1000 c/l of cooking oil/year? Maybe Lou Ana in Baton Rouge might do that.
PNWRMNM blue streak 1 Hopefully this would mainly benefit freight customers with side benefit to Amtrak. Very disingenuous, Streak. You are a well known passenger train guy advocating for another hidden subsidy for the rolling wreck known as ATK.
blue streak 1
Hopefully this would mainly benefit freight customers with side benefit to Amtrak.
Very disingenuous, Streak. You are a well known passenger train guy advocating for another hidden subsidy for the rolling wreck known as ATK.
Although our proposal will benefit Amtrak somewhat the focus is on freight RRs. There are too many freight only lines around here that would benefit from the many delays caused by too long freights for many sidings. LaGrange Ga is often packed with trains waiting for too long trains. Often see same train waiting for a slot as the BNSF haulage trains get some priority when able as crews for BNSF can run into HOS problems. There is esentially 5 - 6 miles of double track at LaGrange which is a combination of the CSX A&WP sub ( ATL - Montgomery ) and Lineville Sub ( Birmingham - Manchester ).
A breakdown at LaGrange is 2-1/2 miles of combined for the A&WP / Lineville subs.
If the RRs do not do this voluntarily then we are concerned that congress / STB/ and or FRA is going to step in. That would of course be much worse !
I wonder if the people who are gung-ho on precision scheduling are unaware of the reality that things that foul schedules up happen.
Johnny
blue streak 1A breakdown at LaGrange is 2-1/2 miles of combined for the A&WP / Lineville subs. If the RRs do not do this voluntarily then we are concerned that congress / STB/ and or FRA is going to step in. That would of course be much worse !
Don't know how LaGrange is dispatched at present - When I had it as a part of my territory - The Lineville Sub, including LaGrange was dispatched by one dispatcher; the A&WP was dispatched by a different dispatcher. The combined 2 1/2 miles was 'primarily' a railroad crossing at grade, without having a diamond.
While both dispatchers communicated with each other - the order of trains operating on the Lineville Sub was in the hands of the Lineville Sub Dispatcher and that includes the A&WP trains between the Lineville Sub control points. Dispatchers have to deal with the physcial characteristics of their territory.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Deggesty I wonder if the people who are gung-ho on precision scheduling are unaware of the reality that things that foul schedules up happen.
A couple of months back, I brought into the home terminal a just shy of 15000 foot train. Normally, the train sets out and often is considerably shorter leaving. Usually the set out is a rear end and entirely behind the midtrain DP consist, which usually stays to be used on trains originating there. This one, had cars ahead of the DP also, which meant an extra move or two to get the setout to fit in the yard tracks. On this day, we were showing picking up (on the head end) a couple of units to be taken to another yard down the line.
We started into the yard with about 45 mins to an hour left to work, after being held out for 2 or 3 hours because the yard wasn't ready for us. The outbound was on duty, and was on the spot to help with the engine work. They tried to go to the power and move it up to where we where in the yard. The power wouldn't start. The yard mechanic came out and got it running, then had to help to get the hand brake to release. We got the power together on the train and were just beginning to change out. The dispatcher came on the radio and asked where we were at in the process. I told him I was about to get off the engine, the outbound ready to get on and pull down and do the set out. He asked if he could have the signal back at the control point at the east end of the yard. I said they'll be ready to pull right away. He said he really needed it back. I said we had the whole town blocked. (One underpass in the city, but the big fire equipment won't fit under it.) He said the corridor manager wanted him to take the signal back. I said go ahead and take the signal. (The outbound had heard all this on the van radio and even said they'ld be ready to pull and start work.)
While riding the van (now dead on hours) to the tie up point, I heard the outbound tell the dispatcher they were ready. The dispr said it would be about 20 mins or so before they could get a signal, waiting for one train each way. I figured, assuming they began their work on that time estimate, that the entire city was blocked for close to 2 hours before crossings started to be cleared.
A week later, the outbound engineer told me he had turned in the blockage to our safety hotline. He said he got word that it was a hot topic during the next manager's morning meeting.
Now while this did happen after PSR was started, things like this have happened before during times of extreme cost cutting. Those previous times usually being of low car loadings. It just happens more often, maybe not to that extent of time, under PSR with more trains doing more intermediate work.
Jeff
jeffhergert Deggesty I wonder if the people who are gung-ho on precision scheduling are unaware of the reality that things that foul schedules up happen. A couple of months back, I brought into the home terminal a just shy of 15000 foot train. Normally, the train sets out and often is considerably shorter leaving. Usually the set out is a rear end and entirely behind the midtrain DP consist, which usually stays to be used on trains originating there. This one, had cars ahead of the DP also, which meant an extra move or two to get the setout to fit in the yard tracks. On this day, we were showing picking up (on the head end) a couple of units to be taken to another yard down the line. We started into the yard with about 45 mins to an hour left to work, after being held out for 2 or 3 hours because the yard wasn't ready for us. The outbound was on duty, and was on the spot to help with the engine work. They tried to go to the power and move it up to where we where in the yard. The power wouldn't start. The yard mechanic came out and got it running, then had to help to get the hand brake to release. We got the power together on the train and were just beginning to change out. The dispatcher came on the radio and asked where we were at in the process. I told him I was about to get off the engine, the outbound ready to get on and pull down and do the set out. He asked if he could have the signal back at the control point at the east end of the yard. I said they'll be ready to pull right away. He said he really needed it back. I said we had the whole town blocked. (One underpass in the city, but the big fire equipment won't fit under it.) He said the corridor manager wanted him to take the signal back. I said go ahead and take the signal. (The outbound had heard all this on the van radio and even said they'ld be ready to pull and start work.) While riding the van (now dead on hours) to the tie up point, I heard the outbound tell the dispatcher they were ready. The dispr said it would be about 20 mins or so before they could get a signal, waiting for one train each way. I figured, assuming they began their work on that time estimate, that the entire city was blocked for close to 2 hours before crossings started to be cleared. A week later, the outbound engineer told me he had turned in the blockage to our safety hotline. He said he got word that it was a hot topic during the next manager's morning meeting. Now while this did happen after PSR was started, things like this have happened before during times of extreme cost cutting. Those previous times usually being of low car loadings. It just happens more often, maybe not to that extent of time, under PSR with more trains doing more intermediate work. Jeff
Penny wise, dollar foolish! Spend $1K to save a dime.
jeffhergert, I’d be interested in knowing which road you work for, if that is something you are willing to divulge. Also, I think you are an engineer; is that correct?
I always enjoy reading your posts.
Lithonia Operator jeffhergert, I’d be interested in knowing which road you work for, if that is something you are willing to divulge. Also, I think you are an engineer; is that correct? I always enjoy reading your posts.
Yes, I'm a locomotive engineer. I work in the family business, for Uncle Pete.
(Actually, I'm the first in my family to work for a railroad. And I don't really have an Uncle Pete.)
jeffhergert Lithonia Operator jeffhergert, I’d be interested in knowing which road you work for, if that is something you are willing to divulge. Also, I think you are an engineer; is that correct? I always enjoy reading your posts. Yes, I'm a locomotive engineer. I work in the family business, for Uncle Pete. (Actually, I'm the first in my family to work for a railroad. And I don't really have an Uncle Pete.) Jeff
There are a select few of us on here who currently work in train or engine service or other railroad operating positions, and more who are retired. Those ranks recently suffered a great loss with the death of Ed Blysard of Houston's PTRA (RIP).
I am currently employed by Crash National (you fill 'em, we spill 'em!).
One thing I like about this forum is comparing rules and operations with the folks from other railroads.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
I apprecaite the posts of contributors such as 1070Dude and all the others who have hands-on experience in railroad operation and others whose work is connected with railroading--especially when they correct my errors. I have been interested in railroading for 70 years, and still have much to learn.
SD70DudeOne thing I like about this forum is comparing rules and operations with the folks from other railroads.
It is amazing how different 'similar' can be.
SD70Dude my customers that have to deal with your employeers US based side of it call them the Canadian NOPE when it comes to service. Half our loads to Mississippi are loads that are on IC trains in hopper cars that the IC can not deliver even a week late and the plant has to have product to run and we have to bail them out yet again. We have 5 trucks heading that way now for Monday morning yet again to keep the bumper plant for an auto assembly plant running because IC and CN sent the hopper car full of their plastic to Winnipeg instead of Jackson MS. Then CN wants them to pay for the freight charges for the screw up. I think we are going to get that contract full time pretty soon.
Shadow the Cats owner SD70Dude my customers that have to deal with your employeers US based side of it call them the Canadian NOPE when it comes to service. Half our loads to Mississippi are loads that are on IC trains in hopper cars that the IC can not deliver even a week late and the plant has to have product to run and we have to bail them out yet again. We have 5 trucks heading that way now for Monday morning yet again to keep the bumper plant for an auto assembly plant running because IC and CN sent the hopper car full of their plastic to Winnipeg instead of Jackson MS. Then CN wants them to pay for the freight charges for the screw up. I think we are going to get that contract full time pretty soon.
Yeah, that sounds about right. Sigh. At least your business is doing well.
I like to use this TSB report as an example of how well CN's car-tracking system works. Unfortunately not much has changed since this happened.
http://www.bst-tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/rail/2009/r09w0016/r09w0016.html
Nothing can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong...Now I am scared. 15000 ft long trains with these tank cars in them just waiting to be pulled apart while carrying toxic loads. I can see the lawyers salivating over the prospects of the negligence claims against the RR's, shippers and the car owners. EHH what have you given us.
Shadow:Just curious how that Streator, Il to Jackson, Ms is routed...is that NS to Kankakee to CN?That should be a smooth move.
ed
Electroliner 1935EHH what have you given us.
I find it kind of amusing that the term Precision Scheduled Railroading has caught on to the point that virtually everyone in the railroad (and related) busines uses it.
To me, it sounds very hype-ish, like a cheap sales slogan. Like “new and improved.” Some folks here say that it’s not so precision, not so scheduled, but the term endures.
I saw that one railroad said they are implementing a “modified version of PSR.” Seems like they should come up with their own term. Maybe an acronym like SORT: Service Oriented Railroad Technology. That wouldn’t be any more lame than Precision Scheduled Railroading.
To me, the term PSR implies the outlook of ”this is how we’ve always done it”. Meet our schedule. It’s about us. Hardened arteries. If they were truly trying to serve their customer, they would use the term, JIT. Just In Time thinking. What the customer needs, when he/she needs it.
I have no clue how their resins are routed to Jackson from their main supplier. We have been delivering a couple of custom blends they wanted for a while. So when they called us up and said they needed 110 tons of plastic resins that we had in stock that they normally get from a different company we said yes we can help you out. The problem is IC can not even get the product to this plant when they have it for them to deliver.
Just wait until they put PSR in the Cloud!!
Electroliner 1935 Nothing can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong...Now I am scared. 15000 ft long trains with these tank cars in them just waiting to be pulled apart while carrying toxic loads. I can see the lawyers salivating over the prospects of the negligence claims against the RR's, shippers and the car owners. EHH what have you given us.
We had monster sized trains before EHH. Eventually some other flavor of the day method will come along, and we'll probably still have some monster sized trains running. While I don't like the monster sized trains either, depends on the train make-up - some aren't too bad to handle, I think people are still better off seeing that hazmat on the rail instead of going through town on the highway.
While most truck drivers are good and compentent, like everything else the bad ones put the paint on the brush that covers all of them, they have to drive among the general public. Some of whom seem to have gotten their driver's license at the bottom of a cereal box. (For those who remember when they used to put "prizes" inside the boxes of cereal.)
SD70Dude Shadow the Cats owner SD70Dude my customers that have to deal with your employeers US based side of it call them the Canadian NOPE when it comes to service. Half our loads to Mississippi are loads that are on IC trains in hopper cars that the IC can not deliver even a week late and the plant has to have product to run and we have to bail them out yet again. We have 5 trucks heading that way now for Monday morning yet again to keep the bumper plant for an auto assembly plant running because IC and CN sent the hopper car full of their plastic to Winnipeg instead of Jackson MS. Then CN wants them to pay for the freight charges for the screw up. I think we are going to get that contract full time pretty soon. Yeah, that sounds about right. Sigh. At least your business is doing well. I like to use this TSB report as an example of how well CN's car-tracking system works. Unfortunately not much has changed since this happened. http://www.bst-tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/rail/2009/r09w0016/r09w0016.html
Car issues are not only a CN issue.
jeffhergert (For those who remember when they used to put "prizes" inside the boxes of cereal.)
Can't forget Cracker Jacks...
There are few new ideas - they just come up every now and then with a new name. Big trains, pre-blocking, you name it, it's been done before.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Thanks for responding, Jeff.
Cotton Belt MP 104, thanks for your PM. I could not respond because I am traveling, and apparently I cannot send a PM from a cell phone.
tree68 jeffhergert (For those who remember when they used to put "prizes" inside the boxes of cereal.) Can't forget Cracker Jacks... There are few new ideas - they just come up every now and then with a new name. Big trains, pre-blocking, you name it, it's been done before.
I've got a box of Cracker Jacks on the shelf in the kitchen. They still put a "prize" in the package, but of late it's usually some sticker. I thought about using CJ instead of cereal. Either one is probably foriegn to a lot of the young forum membership.
Jeff, who remembers dial telephones and getting up to change the TV channel, which only had 3 and later 4 channels with at least one usually having something worth watching.
jeffhergertI've got a box of Cracker Jacks on the shelf in the kitchen. They still put a "prize" in the package, but of late it's usually some sticker. I thought about using CJ instead of cereal. Either one is probably foriegn to a lot of the young forum membership.
jeffhergert....who remembers dial telephones and getting up to change the TV channel, which only had 3 and later 4 channels with at least one usually having something worth watching.
Ah, the "good" old days.
zardoz jeffhergert I've got a box of Cracker Jacks on the shelf in the kitchen. They still put a "prize" in the package, but of late it's usually some sticker. I thought about using CJ instead of cereal. Either one is probably foriegn to a lot of the young forum membership. How about the mega-sugary bubble gum that used to be in packages of baseball cards. There used to be a small drug store at my train-watching spot in Milwaukee, and I'd stock up on baseball cards each time I visited (I mention this in order to keep the forum on-track (pun intended)). jeffhergert ....who remembers dial telephones and getting up to change the TV channel, which only had 3 and later 4 channels with at least one usually having something worth watching. And if you were lucky your parents had a color tv, and even luckier if the program you wanted to see was in color. No only that, but the commercials would blast so loud, and it was way too much of a hassle to get up for every ad to adjust the volume, up, then down, then up, then down..... Ah, the "good" old days.
jeffhergert I've got a box of Cracker Jacks on the shelf in the kitchen. They still put a "prize" in the package, but of late it's usually some sticker. I thought about using CJ instead of cereal. Either one is probably foriegn to a lot of the young forum membership.
How about the mega-sugary bubble gum that used to be in packages of baseball cards. There used to be a small drug store at my train-watching spot in Milwaukee, and I'd stock up on baseball cards each time I visited (I mention this in order to keep the forum on-track (pun intended)).
jeffhergert ....who remembers dial telephones and getting up to change the TV channel, which only had 3 and later 4 channels with at least one usually having something worth watching.
And if you were lucky your parents had a color tv, and even luckier if the program you wanted to see was in color. No only that, but the commercials would blast so loud, and it was way too much of a hassle to get up for every ad to adjust the volume, up, then down, then up, then down.....
jeffhergert: I'm old enough, and lived in a place, to remember 2 commercial networks and the public TV channel. Savannah, GA (the nearest city large enough for TV stations to where I grew up) didn't even have an ABC affiliate until about 1968 or 1969. My mother's aunt and uncle in SW GA still had a party line where every subscriber had a different ring, and every phone on the party line rang when anyone got a call. I also remember when there was no color TV; the first year or two of color availability, some programs were in color and some weren't. Now I feel really old.
Lithonia Operator jeffhergert Lithonia Operator jeffhergert, I’d be interested in knowing which road you work for, if that is something you are willing to divulge. Also, I think you are an engineer; is that correct? I always enjoy reading your posts. Yes, I'm a locomotive engineer. I work in the family business, for Uncle Pete. (Actually, I'm the first in my family to work for a railroad. And I don't really have an Uncle Pete.) Jeff Thanks for responding, Jeff. Cotton Belt MP 104, thanks for your PM. I could not respond because I am traveling, and apparently I cannot send a PM from a cell phone.
Try using the "desktop site" option in your browser. I have to do that when I'm on my phone.
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