It's quiet......too quiet.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:32 PM

charlie hebdo

The Burlington-Rock Island Railroad was a different railroad from the Fort Worth and Denver Railway, which was a wholly-owned subsidiary of the CB&Q since 1908 along with the the Colorado and Southern, which had owned predecessor Fort Worth and Denver City Railway since 1899. The confusion may lie in connections.  The FW&D operated on trackage rights of the Rock Island from Fort Worth to Dallas and through the Burlington-Rock Island from Dallas to Houston.

 

History of the B-RI.  In the mid 1960s it was dissolved and the trackage became the  RI - FW&D Joint Texas Division.  As Ed noted, management duties was shared in 5 year periods between the RI and FWD.    

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burlington-Rock_Island_Railroad 

Jeff

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, May 17, 2018 7:10 AM

Seems like an odd way to run a railroad. What do you do with management people when your 5 year terms ends? "Sorry guy, we'll call you back in 5 years"?

When Rock Island went Kaput, did FWD have to buy out the RI portion?

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Posted by edblysard on Thursday, May 17, 2018 9:44 AM
No, the CB&Q did, then it became BNSF.
Joint lines like this were all over…management was a mix of the parent company, in this case CB&Q. and some RI guys.
Sorta like the joint dispatching center here….its old MP property, owned by UP, but staffed by UP and BNSF dispatchers.

23 17 46 11

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Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, May 17, 2018 3:59 PM

Murphy would have had a blast and ripped up multiple scorecards with the Associated RR up here in Denver (ATSF/DRGW/UP/D&SL/C&S/CRIP/CB&Q) all taking two year turns to get out to the Denver Federal Center...

Ironically ATSF maintained the property maps and land records, the only one of the bunch without a major headquarters in Denver. (we were 150 miles away in La Junta)Confused

RTD owns it now for their toy trains and they are clueless. Took them 6 years to dump their common carrier obligation and they had to be reminded to do it.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by diningcar on Thursday, May 17, 2018 4:43 PM

Mc, I know something about this one and the Denver buearcrats cannot hit their backside with either hand. So much waste when politics overrule good business judgment.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Friday, May 18, 2018 11:02 AM

mudchicken
Murphy would have had a blast and ripped up multiple scorecards with the Associated RR up here in Denver (ATSF/DRGW/UP/D&SL/C&S/CRIP/CB&Q) all taking two year turns to get out to the Denver Federal Center...

Laugh Sounds like the railroad version of who's on first.

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Posted by mudchicken on Friday, May 18, 2018 1:58 PM

Left Field.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by zardoz on Friday, May 18, 2018 9:04 PM

diningcar
buearcrats cannot hit their backside with either hand. So much waste when politics overrule good business judgment


There seems to be an epidemic of that in this country, from the top all the way down. You've heard the term "trickle-down economics"? How about "trickle-down screw-ups"?

Progress is always change, but change is not always progress.

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Saturday, May 19, 2018 9:44 AM

zardoz

 

 
diningcar
buearcrats cannot hit their backside with either hand. So much waste when politics overrule good business judgment

 


There seems to be an epidemic of that in this country, from the top all the way down. You've heard the term "trickle-down economics"? How about "trickle-down screw-ups"?

 

 

 

There is a very good saying we have around here in my company.  Those that can run a company do so.  Those that fail Econ 101 become the regulators of them.  All I have to do is look at how screwed up they made the freaking HOS at least in my industry.  Someone in DC thought that lets make everyone work the same 14 hour time frame then send everyone to bed.  That was the intended goal of their regulations.  They forgot that not all companies we deliver to work 9-5 hours and that the logistics industry is a 24/7/365 operation.  If you were a railroad and the FRA came into your yards and said everything must stop after 14 hours for 10 solid nationwide before moving again regardless of where it was how screwed up would your trains be.  That is what my boys deal with daily.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, May 19, 2018 10:37 AM

mudchicken

Murphy would have had a blast and ripped up multiple scorecards with the Associated RR up here in Denver (ATSF/DRGW/UP/D&SL/C&S/CRIP/CB&Q) all taking two year turns to get out to the Denver Federal Center...

Ironically ATSF maintained the property maps and land records, the only one of the bunch without a major headquarters in Denver. (we were 150 miles away in La Junta)Confused

RTD owns it now for their toy trains and they are clueless. Took them 6 years to dump their common carrier obligation and they had to be reminded to do it.

 

How in the world did the railroads price their services on that line? Was it regulated to the point of "take it or leave it"?

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Posted by SD70Dude on Saturday, May 19, 2018 11:36 AM

Shadow the Cats owner
zardoz
diningcar
buearcrats cannot hit their backside with either hand. So much waste when politics overrule good business judgment

There seems to be an epidemic of that in this country, from the top all the way down. You've heard the term "trickle-down economics"? How about "trickle-down screw-ups"?

There is a very good saying we have around here in my company.  Those that can run a company do so.  Those that fail Econ 101 become the regulators of them.  All I have to do is look at how screwed up they made the freaking HOS at least in my industry.  Someone in DC thought that lets make everyone work the same 14 hour time frame then send everyone to bed.  That was the intended goal of their regulations.  They forgot that not all companies we deliver to work 9-5 hours and that the logistics industry is a 24/7/365 operation.  If you were a railroad and the FRA came into your yards and said everything must stop after 14 hours for 10 solid nationwide before moving again regardless of where it was how screwed up would your trains be.  That is what my boys deal with daily.

Those who can't, teach.

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, May 19, 2018 1:39 PM

SD70Dude
Those who can't, teach.

"A fool's brain digests philosophy into folly, science into superstition, and art into pedantry. Hence university education."   - George Bernard Shaw.

 

A fool's brain digests philosophy into folly, science into superstition, and art into pedantry. Hence University education.
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/george_bernard_shaw_125581
A fool's brain digests philosophy into folly, science into superstition, and art into pedantry. Hence University education. George Bernard Shaw
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/george_bernard_shaw_125581
A fool's brain digests philosophy into folly, science into superstition, and art into pedantry. Hence University education. George Bernard Shaw
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/george_bernard_shaw_125581

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Posted by mudchicken on Saturday, May 19, 2018 1:59 PM

Murphy Siding
 
mudchicken

Murphy would have had a blast and ripped up multiple scorecards with the Associated RR up here in Denver (ATSF/DRGW/UP/D&SL/C&S/CRIP/CB&Q) all taking two year turns to get out to the Denver Federal Center...

Ironically ATSF maintained the property maps and land records, the only one of the bunch without a major headquarters in Denver. (we were 150 miles away in La Junta)Confused

RTD owns it now for their toy trains and they are clueless. Took them 6 years to dump their common carrier obligation and they had to be reminded to do it.

 

 

 

How in the world did the railroads price their services on that line? Was it regulated to the point of "take it or leave it"?

 

 

Common Tarriff for Associated RR for anybody with a Denver terminal.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by Cotton Belt MP104 on Saturday, May 19, 2018 2:11 PM

 

for whatever reason …………………………..when I post anything …………………………..no matter how I place paragraphs in the preparation of the post ……………………………….given the opportunity to hit the POST button ………………………………wa la ………………………………… it is all one continuous blurb ……………

 

 

 

…………..1st ppg………Shadow has an excellent point and is dead on …… however I take issue with your comparison………………

 

 

 

……..2ndppg ……..Those who can’t teach…………

 

 

 

……..3rdppg………………SD70Dude ……………….since your blog signature indicates you, have the ability to speak fluently and coherently and are a person who is dissatisfied and rebellious…….I should consider the source.  As a retired teacher and one who proudly looks upon students who worked hard and have done so well in life……I kinda like to think maybe I had a small part in that success. I pity all those who worked hard to educate you and now have no respect for their efforts.   An antidotal remark you might like:  After a contentious principals meeting with the superintendent of schools in which some issue had the boss on a tear and the principals were the brunt of the tirade. A good super usually comes from ranks of teachers and knows what the issues are that can and cannot be fixed.  But then comes to mind the “Peter Principle”.  Anywho, on leaving one commented, “He doesn’t even know how to make a garden and here he his telling us how far apart to plant our tomatoes”………………

 

 

 

……..4thppg………….There is always need for formal education. I always warned my physics students to be careful of ONLY depending on the textbook for answers.  Real world can come up and bite you with things you didn’t read about.  As I carried RR crews many would bemoan the fact that the managers/decision makers could not even run a model RR train much less a real railroad.  College degree is nice but experience is a solid footing to stand on.  The recent Trains article about UP/SP meltdown in Texas back in the day……it got fixed by those who knew how to getter done………………

 

 

 

…………….5thppg………………Please, there are teachers who know how to getter done and there are those that are……….   JUST college graduates ……………….   like any other profession…………………………..endmrw0519181407

 

The ONE the ONLY/ Paragould, Arkansas/ Est. 1883 / formerly called The Crossing/ a portmanteau/ JW Paramore (Cotton Belt RR) Jay Gould (MoPac)/crossed at our town/ None other, NOWHERE in the world
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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Saturday, May 19, 2018 4:04 PM

CShaveRR

Amazingly (perhaps) I have yet to see a Charger.  

Is there increased horsepower enough to keep the trains running at 110 by themselves?  (More cabbage cars needed?)

Carl, You need to go about five miles South of you, where the Amtrak trains to/from Quincy pass through Downers Grove. Or up to Glenview for the Hiawatha trains, or further South to the CN (ex GM&O/IC) for the Lincoln Service trains. Or over by CSSHEGWISCH where you can see the Detroit or Carbondale trains. Thats where they are running. I have seen them here in Downers Grove rolling smoothly on the BNSF racetrack. The Quincy trains normal consist is five cars plus Charger. BNSF is 70 mph East of Aurora. Don't know of any Illinois track currently allowing speeds above 79 mph. UP South of Joliet is back to 79 until all signal work and additional upgrades are completed. 

I want to get over into Michigan and see how they are doing on the Wolverines. I think they can do the 110 mph with 5 or 6 cars using a single Charger while previously Amtrak used two P42s to achieve 110 mph.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, May 19, 2018 7:37 PM

      Cotton Belt MP104- I have that same problem with no paragraphs , but only with PM's and only on my work computer. No doubt it has something to do with some setting I'm not smart enough to understand. If you fgure out how to fix it, please share. 

     

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, May 19, 2018 7:40 PM

SD70Dude
Those who can't, teach.




Those who can, do. Those who can't sell.

-Norris, salesman for 37 years before becoming a pointy-haired boss 3 years ago.Mischief

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, May 19, 2018 7:53 PM

mudchicken



 

 
Murphy Siding
 
mudchicken

Murphy would have had a blast and ripped up multiple scorecards with the Associated RR up here in Denver (ATSF/DRGW/UP/D&SL/C&S/CRIP/CB&Q) all taking two year turns to get out to the Denver Federal Center...

Ironically ATSF maintained the property maps and land records, the only one of the bunch without a major headquarters in Denver. (we were 150 miles away in La Junta)Confused

RTD owns it now for their toy trains and they are clueless. Took them 6 years to dump their common carrier obligation and they had to be reminded to do it.

 

 

 

How in the world did the railroads price their services on that line? Was it regulated to the point of "take it or leave it"?

 

 

 

 

Common Tarriff for Associated RR for anybody with a Denver terminal.

 

 

How did that change after deregulation? And didn't just one railroad own the connecting track to the outside world? Would that particular railroad have gotten a piece of the pie on every shipment?

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Sunday, May 20, 2018 10:20 AM

One reason it's too quiet is a lack of informative posts, and too much back and forth debate and name-calling, etc. 

Last night I found a print-out (from 2005) of a thread from May 2004.  It was captioned "GPS Signal Control" (note that this was 4 years before PTC became a requirement):

http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/p/16044/240528.aspx#240528 

As may see or infer, the chief contributor was Mark W. Hemphill - now shown as "Anonymous", though several other members still current made good contributions as well.  Compare that one with what we have today.  Words fail me at describing the difference and the decline. 

What the heck, I'll 'bump' it, maybe BaltACD or dehusman would have some insights to add now.

- PDN. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, May 20, 2018 12:53 PM

Paul_D_North_Jr
One reason it's too quiet is a lack of informative posts, and too much back and forth debate and name-calling, etc. 



     That bring s up a good point. Is the lack of informative posts due to a lack of subjects that interest forum members, or a commentary on the attitudes of forum members? I have a printed out copy of one of my favorite threads from back a ways as well. 

ps. Your mother wears army boots. (Sorry man- the Devil made me do it.)

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Posted by zugmann on Sunday, May 20, 2018 12:57 PM

Murphy Siding
I have a printed out copy of one of my favorite threads from back a ways as well.

Bet it's the coffee thread.

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Posted by Euclid on Sunday, May 20, 2018 2:41 PM

I have printed out copies of some of my favorite Michael Sol threads from back aways. 

                                                         Coffee

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, May 20, 2018 2:44 PM

zugmann



 

 
Murphy Siding
I have a printed out copy of one of my favorite threads from back a ways as well.

 

Bet it's the coffee thread.

 

Nah, I don't even like coffee. It's one about the CNW. The rootbeer one was interesting though.

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Posted by zugmann on Sunday, May 20, 2018 8:39 PM

Murphy Siding
The rootbeer one was interesting though.

Just had some ABC Rootbeer tonight.

 

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Posted by mudchicken on Sunday, May 20, 2018 8:39 PM

Murphy Siding
 
mudchicken



 

 
Murphy Siding
 
mudchicken

Murphy would have had a blast and ripped up multiple scorecards with the Associated RR up here in Denver (ATSF/DRGW/UP/D&SL/C&S/CRIP/CB&Q) all taking two year turns to get out to the Denver Federal Center...

Ironically ATSF maintained the property maps and land records, the only one of the bunch without a major headquarters in Denver. (we were 150 miles away in La Junta)Confused

RTD owns it now for their toy trains and they are clueless. Took them 6 years to dump their common carrier obligation and they had to be reminded to do it.

 

 

 

How in the world did the railroads price their services on that line? Was it regulated to the point of "take it or leave it"?

 

 

 

 

Common Tarriff for Associated RR for anybody with a Denver terminal.

 

 

 

 

How did that change after deregulation? And didn't just one railroad own the connecting track to the outside world? Would that particular railroad have gotten a piece of the pie on every shipment?

 

 

Murphy:

Didn't change that much after deregulation. The line started near downtown Denver and was originally steam dummy line Denver Lakewood & Golden RR which had already failed before WW2. (Remington Arms buit a massive munitions plant out beyond the edge of town and everything changed overnight) From Downtown Denver  the line first crossed the D&RGW near Burnham and then the C&S (D&NO)/ATSF joint line from South Denver to Denver Union Station. Because those two lines the crossing frogs were removed, the line between DRGW and C&S/ATSF was removed and a connecting track was beefed up coming off ATSF. ATSF brought any UP business to the Connection, C&S brought anything CB&Q, And DRGW brought along anything D&SL/CRIP. There also was a setout/interchange track at Rice Yard (C&S, now Elitch Gardens amusement park) It all got out there with whoever was doing the switching. Eventually ATSF surrendered what switching obligations it had north of South Denver to C&S in a side agreement related to the Denver-Pueblo joint line, leaving its freight cars with C&S and locomotives with UP. (made for less terminal congestion) 

By the 1980's, traffic on the Associated RR/ Federal Center line fell into sharp decline. By the time RTD oozed into the picture, traffic was largely gone. The area around the federal center got lost in the Denver 'burbs in the first great Denver housing boom.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by Cotton Belt MP104 on Tuesday, May 22, 2018 9:12 PM

Paul_D_North_Jr

One reason it's too quiet is a lack of informative posts, and too much back and forth debate and name-calling, etc. 

I MISS THE FORMER AND SURE WOULD LIKE TO MISS OUT ON THE LATER....YOUR POST IS DEAD ON

Last night I found a print-out (from 2005) of a thread from May 2004.  It was captioned "GPS Signal Control" (note that this was 4 years before PTC became a requirement):

http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/p/16044/240528.aspx#240528 

I CHECKED OUT THIS THREAD AND IT WAS SO INTERESTING TO READ SINCE IT WAS A DECENT BACK AND FORTH CHAT ABOUT TECHNICAL STUFF ..... IT WAS HUMOROUS TOO IN THAT I HAD NOT RECALLED THE COMIC STRIP AND RESEARCHED IT ALSO

As may see or infer, the chief contributor was Mark W. Hemphill - now shown as "Anonymous", though several other members still current made good contributions as well. 

I HAD WONDERED ABOUT THE ANONYMOUS SIGNATURE

 Compare that one with what we have today.  Words fail me at describing the difference and the decline. 

YES, IT IS SAD HOW UNCIVIL THINGS HAVE GOTTEN.  AND WHAT I FIND UNSETTLING IS HOW SOME FEEL THIS FORUM IS STRICKLY THEIRS.  NONE ELSE NEED CONTRIBUTE UNLESS IT IS HOW THEY WANT THINGS SAID.  OF COURSE THIS STATEMENT IS BOLD FOR ME TO SAY .......GUESS THE ONLY ONES WHO WOULD BE OFFENDED WOULD BE THE ONES THE "SHOE FITS"

What the heck, I'll 'bump' it, maybe BaltACD or dehusman would have some insights to add now.

- PDN. 

 

MURPHY SIDING, SHOULD I FIND A SOLUTION TO THE MYSTERY OF "PARAGRAPH ELIMINATION SITUATION", I'LL LET YA NO, IT SURE HAS CAUSED ME LOTS OF GRIEF   ENDMRW0522182111

The ONE the ONLY/ Paragould, Arkansas/ Est. 1883 / formerly called The Crossing/ a portmanteau/ JW Paramore (Cotton Belt RR) Jay Gould (MoPac)/crossed at our town/ None other, NOWHERE in the world

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