Not many details at the link, like whose property, but pictures indicate it was a stack train in Knoxville. No injuries reported.
Film at eleven, I guess.
NS
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Does hazardous waste travel in stack trains?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy Siding Does hazardous waste travel in stack trains?
Not in containers like that. The ones you see in the pictures are typically filled with consumer and other goods. Containers for hazardous waste and the ones you see on "trash trains" are different and aren't stacked, at least not to my knowledge.
Murphy SidingDoes hazardous waste travel in stack trains?
I don't know. But a better question (which I should be able to answer, but can't) is what restrictions apply to hazardous material with a value or delivery necessity justifying intermodal shipping -- perhaps radioactive material in shielding, or specialty chemicals. I think there's an absence of placarding on articulated well cars, which might be a strong indication; at a minimum, I'd think even 'minimum' categories of nominally hazardous materials would either be single-stacked or kept 'on the bottom'.
I am not aware of any particular loading restrictions when loading stack trains.
As a matter of logic it would be beneficial to load the heavier containers on the bottom level of double stacks. The bottom level of stack cars are equipped to load multiple 20 foot containers which would normally be used for commodities that weigh out before the cube out. 40, 48 & 53 foot containers can be secured on the 2nd level where 20 footers are the 1st level. If 40, 48 or 53 foot containers are the bottom level, there can be NO 20 footers on the 2nd level as the longer containers only have hardened mounting posts at the 40 foot position - no loading posts at the 20 foot level.
Murphy,
Hazardous Waste is a subset of Hazardous Materials and virtually all of them can be and are transported in packages by truck and by intermodal. I have seen many hazardous materials in 55 gallon drums and many conumer products move in boxes with an inner container.
There is a 1000 pound exemption from placarding for most classes of Hazardous Materials by truck and IM, but hazmat of any type must be shown on bill of lading and waybill.
Basic rule is that truck rules apply to IM, which makes sense in terms of consistency.
Like Balt, I am unaware of any restriction peculiar to stack trains.
Mac McCulloch
PNWRMNM Murphy Siding Does hazardous waste travel in stack trains? Murphy, Hazardous Waste is a subset of Hazardous Materials and virtually all of them can be and are transported in packages by truck and by intermodal. I have seen many hazardous materials in 55 gallon drums and many conumer products move in boxes with an inner container. There is a 1000 pound exemption from placarding for most classes of Hazardous Materials by truck and IM, but hazmat of any type must be shown on bill of lading and waybill. Basic rule is that truck rules apply to IM, which makes sense in terms of consistency. "...Like Balt, I am unaware of any restriction peculiar to stack trains..." Mac McCulloch
"...Like Balt, I am unaware of any restriction peculiar to stack trains..."
No argument,on what Mac mentioned, since he,and Balt are certainly aware of the railroad side of Haz-Mat handling on rails.
I would be somewhat suspicious of H/M 'goods' being handled in regular enclosed containers. The Federal Rules are pretty onerous, where containers (or enclosed,truck-trailers are used for H/M ladings). See partial, FR @ https://www.fedcenter.gov/assistance/facilitytour/landfills/hazwaste/
Receiving points for H/M in the South are fairly limited, and in the entire country, something around 20 (give or take) site that receive H/M materials. With some H/M materials, if spilled into a 'container; cleaning is not an option, the damaged container must be destroyed and properly disposed of. [I would bet S.T.C.'s Owner, could fill your ear on this, as it is part of her current business(?).
Usually, placarded, H/M waste loads, are carried in a flat- style,opentop/tarped, container (approx 20' in length). One or two on a trailer (a hydraulic, self- loading/unloading style trailer). Those containers, can also be loaded onto a container carrying flat car; stacked only two high, maybe 4 to a car(?). Around here they are heading OTR to a facility in Okla. Have seen none on rail of late.
The landfills are 'managed and tracked' (wells drilled,and contents mapped) for a period of about 30+ years. [See linked website for more info].
EPIX trash container cars with containers loaded
Plenty of hazardous materials moved in containers. Usually not an entire container, but mixed with other items. The required information appears on the train list, just the same as it does for a loaded car.
There's a lot of everyday items that are considered hazardous materials. Especially when in larger quantities during shipping. I think most people when they hear "hazardous materials" they immediately think of tank cars full of explosive and/or toxic materials.
Jeff
CSX is prohibited from carrying certain commodities through Washington DC. UPS frequently ships containers that contain a volume of these restricted commodities - they have to be indentified on the Bill of Lading as well as the Waybill information. The existance of these shipments then get flagged on the Train Documentation for the train.
The restrictions apply these commodities being carried in 'Reportable Quantities'. A Reportable Quantity is nominally a full car load or a full trailer load. Shipments with Reportable Quantities must have appropriate Placards affixed to the car or trailer. Not having placards afixed where they are required involves a large penalty for the shipper - so that short cut to confusion rarely happens.
In real life, when a crew reports they have one of the restricted shipments to the Chief Dispatcher, a party in Intermodal is contacted to research the official shipping papers for the car. In 99.99% of the cases the restricted shipment is NOT of a reportable quantity. The crew gets informed of this and is instructed to 'physically observe' the particular car or trailer to insure that it DOES NOT display placards for the shipment. The shipment is allowed to proceed. The 0.01% of the time that a reportable quantity and/or a placard are found - the car is set out and the trailers/containers will be drayed to destination over the highways.
A carton or two of BIC cigarette lighters trigger this situation from time to time - also other seemingly innocuous products also trigger the alerts.
BaltACD EPIX trash container cars with containers loaded
Thats some crappy information. From now on I cannot possibly buy any food from Colorado!
Does John Deere still make and sell the only product he refused to stand behind? I know that they were quite commonly used to provide help in growing the plants in the field.
Johnny
DeggestyDoes John Deere still make and sell the only product he refused to stand behind?
Would you expect they would not?
DeggestyDoes John Deere still make and sell the only product he refused to stand behind? I know that they were quite commonly used to provide help in growing the plants in the field.
They will stand behind the product - just not when it is in operation!
Deggesty Does John Deere still make and sell the only product he refused to stand behind? I know that they were quite commonly used to provide help in growing the plants in the field.
We don't see many of the traditional version arount here - most of the farmers are turning it into a slurry and spraying that on their fields. You definitely don't want to be in the line of fire with them...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68We don't see many of the traditional version arount here - most of the farmers are turning it into a slurry and spraying that on their fields. You definitely don't want to be in the line of fire with them...
Or downwind.
Norm
Norm48327 tree68 We don't see many of the traditional version arount here - most of the farmers are turning it into a slurry and spraying that on their fields. You definitely don't want to be in the line of fire with them... Or downwind.
tree68 We don't see many of the traditional version arount here - most of the farmers are turning it into a slurry and spraying that on their fields. You definitely don't want to be in the line of fire with them...
Or driving with the top down adjacent to a recently sprayed field.
Miningman Thats some crappy information. From now on I cannot possibly buy any food from Colorado!
You wouldn't want what we fertilize our yards with either (Comes from Ft. Collins WTP/STP http://www.therichlawncompany.com/products/fertilizers/richlawn-turf-food/ )
But you go into a hole in the ground, breath that bad air and hang around those maniacal dangerous tommyknockers?
As I tell the local DOT and local political officals around here. You would be scared if you realized how much cyanide was required to mine gold for electronics.
MC,
Having spent summers on my uncle's farm and learning things my generation, other than "city kids", were expected to learn, (how many here have milked a cow?) I became quick on the uptake.
Fresh cow pies were not to be stepped on unless you liked smelly shoes, and Manure spreaders of the day were verboten to be near while they were doing their task.
The fertilizer they provided, once tilled into the soil, was beneficial to the crops and almost guaranteed a good harvest the folowing year.
Times have changed and now cow manure is no longer acceptable but a lot of Bullschidt is.
Stuff happens.
In some ways, while I appreciate the conveniencies of today there is still good to be spoken of yesteryear. bIt was a much easier time back then.
BaltACD Norm48327 tree68 We don't see many of the traditional version arount here - most of the farmers are turning it into a slurry and spraying that on their fields. You definitely don't want to be in the line of fire with them... Or downwind. Or driving with the top down adjacent to a recently sprayed field.
NOTE: Lambs and Pigs on trailers, are even more deadly, with their "outboard, direct fire"....
To Balt's comment...If on the road; Pass them rapidly!
As my hubby always says this goes back to his driving days. Best drivers to follow if your logs are in trouble are Bullhaulers why they know every goat path around the scalehouse ever thought of. They also knew the best places to eat shower get a truckwash and according to my late FIL where the best drivers out there. There is a saying about trying to pass a bullhauler good luck. Normally those guys have more speed than most.
Shadow the Cats ownerAs my hubby always says this goes back to his driving days. Best drivers to follow if your logs are in trouble are Bullhaulers why they know every goat path around the scalehouse ever thought of. They also knew the best places to eat shower get a truckwash and according to my late FIL where the best drivers out there. There is a saying about trying to pass a bullhauler good luck. Normally those guys have more speed than most.
From my college days - when hitchhiking - don't accept a ride with a empty cattle truck - roughest riding vehicle I have EVER been on.
Well, Balt, I never had such an opportunity offered to me, either. Indeed, I did not see such traffic along my ways between home and college.
Among my interesting rides was one on the way to Asheville from Bristol. I do not remember just where I was picked up; I asked the kind man what he did, and he did not answer me. When we arrived at the state line, he backed up by another car that was there, told me to stay in the car, got out, and unloaded several heavy items from his trunk. After the transfer, the other driver took me on down to Asheville. I had the impression that if either trunk had been smashed, there would have been a quite evident odor from the cargo.
Meanwhile, it appears the Newswire covered the resolution of the original Knoxville 'oopsie' on the 23rd, but hasn't chosen to post that story to the forum. Perhaps this thread is the appropriate place for the staff to do so now.
mudchicken BaltACD EPIX trash container cars with containers loaded Plenty of New Jersey sewage waste treatment plant dried waste pellets shows up in SE Colorado every month to get spread in the fields for the truck farms in the Arkansas River valley....in those cars...
Plenty of New Jersey sewage waste treatment plant dried waste pellets shows up in SE Colorado every month to get spread in the fields for the truck farms in the Arkansas River valley....in those cars...
Ah, it's a"poo-poo choo-choo!"
Sorry gang, couldn't resist that one!
Bull haulers, around here, are the lowest caste of truckdriver and have the worst operator records to prove it. (You ought to see what Amtrak does to a cattle trailer after impact)...
Want a more pleasant experience? Work around the fields sprayed with the waste (liquid with solids in suspension) from a brewery...Smells like a bread bakery. A-B has quite an operation at Fort Collins (Nutriturf) straight east 5 miles from the brewery. (WCR 15, half mile north of WCR-88 (Larimer County 52)) Specially modified pivot irrigation system spraying water and waste wort. Homer Simpson AG heaven.
Julian Kansas has a similar operation where tank cars of the stuff are shipped from KC as cattle feed for feed lots around Ulysses-Johnson KS on what is now the Cimmarron Valley Railway...Nothing quite like walking around, ankle deep, in beer waste squeezins...
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