Rail miles yes.
Highway miles are much different, especially considering what part of a metropolis one is going from and what part of a metropolis one is going to.
Many of the Chicago intermodal ramps are much farther from downtown Milwaukee than 83 rail miles.
But the rest of eastern WI is more than that.
Also, interestingly, CN has an intermodal ramp in Chippewa Falls, WI to serve the Northwestern WI and the Minneapolis-St Paul metro area. Downtown Minneapolis to that ramp is 97 miles, but depending what part of the metro area you are traveling from it could easily be 30-40 miles more.
kgbw49 Drayage. Ground the boxes in Chattanooga and truck them to Atlanta, and Birmingham, too, for that matter. Chattanooga-Atlanta is about the same distance as Chicago to Milwaukee and Chattanooga-Birmingham is about the same distance as Chicago-Madison. They could also dray boxes Toledo-Cleveland, Cincinnati-Columbus and Cincinnati-Louisville, and the CNOPT passes within dray distance of Nashville. Intermodal is the wave of the future, right? All kidding aside, this has as much chance of happening as the Minnesota Twins winning the 2017 World Series. Although if there was one railroad that could figure out how to make money off such a configuration, it would be CN.
Drayage.
Ground the boxes in Chattanooga and truck them to Atlanta, and Birmingham, too, for that matter. Chattanooga-Atlanta is about the same distance as Chicago to Milwaukee and Chattanooga-Birmingham is about the same distance as Chicago-Madison.
They could also dray boxes Toledo-Cleveland, Cincinnati-Columbus and Cincinnati-Louisville, and the CNOPT passes within dray distance of Nashville.
Intermodal is the wave of the future, right?
All kidding aside, this has as much chance of happening as the Minnesota Twins winning the 2017 World Series.
Although if there was one railroad that could figure out how to make money off such a configuration, it would be CN.
Johnny
There is some constutional questions here/ Like if a state builds a toll road can they only allow one trucking company to use it? Here for example in New York State roadside assitance on the NYS Thruway is only allowed thru AAA. Could the Dullas Greenway in Virgina only allow one taxi or airport shuttle company to use it? What needs to be done is a court to declare that the the Cincy Railroad is a public road and should thus be open access. Few People know that the Pennsy Railroad between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg when built the state put it its charter that it be open to all not just one railroad. That was because as the state was abandoning the Pennsyvania Canal that there was fear that a monopoly would strangle the state. This provision would be used once when a expermental commuter train was ran between Pittsburgh Penn Station and Latrobe PA in the 1980s and the service was run by Ed Eliss group.
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/drivingisrightnotprivledge07apr05.shtml
While the City of Cincinnati might not object to additional bids to lease the Cincinnati Southern, it might be difficult for the bidders to justify the higher lease costs to their shareholders if they won. The STB would also have a say in the matter if somebody other than NS took over the lease.
And then how would CN deliver to most customers at Chattanooga or Atlanta ? (Not many along the CNO&TP, as I understand it.) They're likely on either NS or CSX, and so CN would need a reciprocal switching agreement or 'open access' to be able to do it. Good luck with that !
- Paul North.
Since the CNO&TP ends in Chattanooga, the CN would have to dicker with either NS or CSX to gain entrance to Atlanta. Both these are primarily single track.
Okay, how about this one just for the heck of it.
CN gets the lease along with trackage rights or outright purchase of the Indiana and Ohio Railway and trackage rights on Chicago, Fort Wayne & Eastern, thereby getting access to Atlanta, Cincinnati and Columbus.
It would make for some lucrative long hauls from Vancouver or Prince Rupert without having to buy the whole NS.
I know, I know - it won't be that simple and NS will fight like banshees to retain the lease.
Sometime since 1987 the lease dates were renegotiated, as I recall. It may have been in connection with the ~2000 2nd round of capital improvements to the line.
If Cincy thru its own volition or thru Amtrak wants Regional Passenger or Commuter trains on the line do they have to get on there hands and knees and ask preety please to use there own property?
Johnny: I know! The Lease is reported as expiring in "2026" [But 50 years from the renegotiation date ( reported as 1987 )...not to mention that the Lease extension term is reported as being +25 years from 2026.
Go Figure... I did not take 'New Math' my kids teachers told me to NEVER<EVER< help them with their homework...
samfp1943 To add somewhat to theinformation that Paul D. North,jr. provided, and in relation to the 'Timeline' provided in the OP's post. The lease negotiated by the Southern Rwy and the City of Cincinnati in 1987, (requested by the City to gain a better revenue base) for the City. 1987+ 50 years= 2027 (?) pushes the lease expiration out to 2027 ( listed expiration date of 2026 (?). There is an automatic 25 year extension included in the Lease. Minimum agreed payment to the City is $11 Million per yr. According to Page 12 of the included Financial report: Income to the City of Cincinnati, since 1987. (Lease renegotiation) has been $474,650,571. Seems that there would be no advantage to opening up the Lease negotiations to bring in another party other than the NS. Since the City owns the ROW, I am not certain how they would have to work out 'compensation' for the vast improvements, NS has made on the line, in regards to the ROW straigtening, and the Tunnels that were 'daylighted' along the CNO&TP; during the 1961/63 re-construction Project.
To add somewhat to theinformation that Paul D. North,jr. provided, and in relation to the 'Timeline' provided in the OP's post.
The lease negotiated by the Southern Rwy and the City of Cincinnati in 1987, (requested by the City to gain a better revenue base) for the City. 1987+ 50 years= 2027 (?)
pushes the lease expiration out to 2027 ( listed expiration date of 2026 (?). There is an automatic 25 year extension included in the Lease. Minimum agreed payment to the City is $11 Million per yr. According to Page 12 of the included Financial report: Income to the City of Cincinnati, since 1987. (Lease renegotiation) has been $474,650,571.
Seems that there would be no advantage to opening up the Lease negotiations to bring in another party other than the NS.
Since the City owns the ROW, I am not certain how they would have to work out 'compensation' for the vast improvements, NS has made on the line, in regards to the ROW straigtening, and the Tunnels that were 'daylighted' along the CNO&TP; during the 1961/63 re-construction Project.
According to the SPV Atlas, there are only four tunnels left on the road--two near Nemo, Tennessee (about mp 250), and two (25 & 26) just below Oakdale, Tennessee. These all apparently had been reworked with new portals. Six tunnels in Kentucky and one in Tennessee were run around, with new track laid 1 to 2 miles west. All the rest were daylighted.
I last rode the line in the fall of 1969.
added "in Kentucky," and corrected the time of the year that I last rode the CNO&TP.
2015 Annual Report & Audit of the Cincinnati Southern -
http://cincinnatisouthernrailway.org/documents/2015-CSR-Audit.pdf
- says the lease is not up until 2026, and even then has a 25-year renewal option (Note 1, pg. 6, "Principles of operation"). Also, the rental for 2015 was $21.2 million (Note 6, pg. 12). Since the line is 337 miles, that's about $63,000 per mile - pretty cheap, IMHO.
See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati,_New_Orleans_and_Texas_Pacific_Railway
Part of the deal is that the lessee / operator can or has to do capital upgrades/ improvements at its expense. These have been the subject of articles in Trains from time to time. Southern Rwy. did one in the 1960's - 'daylighted' or bypassed a lot of the "Rat Hole's" tunnels. Then NS did another one in the last 15 years or so, as I recall.
Still an interesting example of a municipally-owned railroad, operating lease, etc.
Coincidentally, NS has another long one, though maybe not quite as busy - the North Carolina Railroad, which is state-owned.
Cincinnati Southern is the CNO&TP ("Rat Hole") route between Cincinnati and Chattanooga. Very unlikely that anybody but CNO&TP (NS) would bid on the lease.
If any other railroad like Gennese and Wyoming WANT IT OR YOU WANT passsenger service as part of the deal speak now or it it will be 25 years before you can speak again.
http://cincinnatisouthernrailway.org/about/ferguson-act.php
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