String Lining.

177128 views
2619 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 9:15 PM

Good Point. Any Mine Resue team or individual with Mine Rescue Training on the planet could have handled this situation. A Drager pack is much slimmer and gives more time. Of course there are also systems that are not self contained portable but an air hose connection attached to a fix source however far away. 

The situation with the Cominco fellas really seems as if there was little chance of a situational awarness. Cominco employees would have had various levels of training with oxygen deficient environments and would have known things but this one is very hidden in its nature. 

I've crawled up a ramp incline underground on my belly with about 6 inches of breathable air from the sill up..higher than six inches were ever increasing concentrations of deadly gases that easily would have done me in in short order. These were fumes and gases from a blasted round that did not clear out correctly that time. Using my lamp and calling for help Mine Rescue found me and just in time to. I was 24 at the time. 

Something that NDG may understand and an indication of the the times back then is that when I got to surface ( on a stretcher) I was spirited to the company medical/first aid room and given time to rest and recover, maybe a couple of hours. Safety guy came in and asked how I was doing. I said I'm ok. Went upstairs and, after showering, my boss ( the Chief Mine Geologist) called me into his office and promptly gave me barrelfuls of hell for being so careless and to smarten up. We probably had a smoke and a coffee during this grilling. My how times have changed. I relate that to my students in their 1st year but I think they cannot quite understand how that could be. 

 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 21,156 posts
Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, January 18, 2017 10:20 PM

A lot depends on the overall setup of the manhole.  The pack could have easily been lowered in behind him.  Many departments now use 4500 PSI packs, which are much lower in profile than the old 2218 PSI packs.

Many fire departments have 4 gas detectors - but they are not inexpensive and sheer economics might prevent their widespread use.  Such a detector would likely have prevented injury to the firefighter.  

Remember, too, that your average fire department is set up to fight fires, not to do confined space rescue.  We don't know how much confined space training the department in question gets - it could be near zero.  It could be that certain companies (usually the rescue companies) have the training and the equipment.  Again, we don't know.

You can bet that the SOG's for that department are getting a good looking at, and firefighters are reviewing them.  

But, I'm talking about the fire department - the initial problem was the contractor's workers.  I know I recently coordinated a private contractor's use of our local fire training facility for confined space training.  It would appear these workers may not have had such training.

Many jurisdictions require a confined space permit to enter such spaces.  I don't know about the locale in question.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

NDG
  • Member since
    December 2013
  • 1,400 posts
Posted by NDG on Saturday, January 21, 2017 3:53 PM

Thank You.

NDG
  • Member since
    December 2013
  • 1,400 posts
Posted by NDG on Monday, January 23, 2017 3:30 PM

Thank You.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 21,156 posts
Posted by tree68 on Monday, January 23, 2017 4:01 PM

NDG
Are those Cylinders, et al from factory? Alco. Compound when built???

Can't see the other side - the two cylinders you see are the valve and the piston.  Note the connection from the valve gear to said top cylinder.  There were non-articulated locomotives built as compounds, but not many, AFAIK.  The high pressure cylinder was on one side, the low pressure (larger) on the other.

I found an image of CV407 - it appears to have Stephenson valve gear and slide valves.  This locomotive may have been upgraded in its lifetime.

NDG
Is that some sort of Coal Pusher behind coal bunker on tender?

Good possibility.

NDG
What is round pin atop upper crosshead guide, or it it just laying there from somewhere else?

I vote "somewhere else..."

NDG
Bell missing = Scrap Line??

Boarded up window, missing major parts, that would be my guess.  Curiously, the stack appears to be capped.  Perhaps originally a parts source with the possibility of returning to service.  

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Monday, January 23, 2017 5:04 PM

Stack is definitely covered. The front number plate is also missing and the bell, as noted, has been removed. I vote pin just being placed there as well. I believe that is a bird sitting on the cross head down and to the right of the pin. Since the number is not white lined perhaps it is being used as a parts source at this point. It appears to have been selectively cannabilized. I'm sure she gave many many good years of rock solid service. Pretty locomotive anyway you look at it. 

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Monday, January 23, 2017 6:02 PM

If you open the 3rd link provided by Wanswheel you can read a brief description ( at the bottom of the roster chart)...they were crosscompounds, this one, 402, built in 1908. The series was rebuilt in the war years 1914-1917 to superheated. It had likely given 50 years of service when it was scrapped. Thanks to Wanswheel. 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • 4,190 posts
Posted by wanswheel on Monday, January 23, 2017 6:31 PM

Here's the page, if clicking and scrolling is a hardship.

NDG
  • Member since
    December 2013
  • 1,400 posts
Posted by NDG on Tuesday, January 24, 2017 3:43 AM

 

 

First Off, Thank You to all!  Esp. Mr. Wanswheel with his always wonderful data!  Thank You, Sir!

Have to love eBay to fill in the blanks on some collection and data and details.

Looking around at the same site, and found sister engine CV 404 under steam!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5J752-RP-1940s-CNR-CANADIAN-NATIONAL-RAILROAD-ENGINE-404-/351958903871?hash=item51f262ac3f:g:TrUAAOSwnipWWlhB  


And this little tea kettle..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6E559-RP-1930-40s-CN-CANADIAN-NATIONAL-RAILROAD-ENGINE-637-/351960701334?hash=item51f27e1996:g:6OAAAOSw2x1XK90L

AFAIK Central Vermont did NOT use the large CNR/GTW Number Plate as here.

http://www.railroadiana.org/shows/shows_gburg07/imgs/numberplate_cn3481_b.jpg

Have to Go.

Thank You.

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, January 24, 2017 6:12 PM

Right about the front number plate..it could not be missing 'cause they didn't have them...wonder why? DW&P did I believe, which is a lot of words to get in on a plate like that. It was an incorrect assumption on my part. 

Picture of 404 under steam is a thing of beauty, which goes to show you beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  

Railroading in New England has changed very dramatically since the steam days. It was easy to understand who was who back then and where they went. Today it's kind of confusing and hard to make sense of who is what. 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • 4,190 posts
Posted by wanswheel on Wednesday, January 25, 2017 11:49 AM

Labor includes the wages of my grandfather Joe (1881-1971) and his brothers Dan (1880-1966) and Marshall (1888-1957). Probably they all drove or fired the 400s at some point.

They were from Prince Edward Island, which makes me one-quarter Canadian, eh.

According to a 1948 Railroad magazine article, my great-Uncle Dan’s  “first railroad job was with the Canadian Pacific at Brownsville Jct., Me., in November of 1898. He got a job as a fireman on the Maine Central in 1903 running between Portland and Bangor. Four years later he was set up as an engineer. In August, 1908, he went to work for the Grand Trunk running out of Montreal and in January, 1909, he was transferred to the Central Vermont.”

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, January 25, 2017 4:49 PM

Fabulous and proud connection for you there Wanswheel. An awful lot of track no longer exists in the Maritime Provinces. Such a rich and important heritage. 

NDG
  • Member since
    December 2013
  • 1,400 posts
Posted by NDG on Thursday, January 26, 2017 5:15 PM

Thank You.

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Thursday, January 26, 2017 6:12 PM

Got to luv that CV Milk Reefer...going to take me a month to get through all the pics and write ups from the CV site...fabulous stuff. 

To think that in the span of ten years all of this just vanished and a whole way of life along with it. Too much lost, too fast. More to the story than meets the eye. People argue, even ridicule, on these thoughts with rationalization.  Today it's pill addiction in New Hampshire, talk of a lost generation. Not good. Same thing in rural SW Ontario which also had its rail decimated. 

It's been difficult to keep up with whats even left in New England and in the Mariitme Provinces. Just a steady downhill to oblivion. 

Tourist and scenic rails hanging on, thankfully. 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 21,156 posts
Posted by tree68 on Thursday, January 26, 2017 8:19 PM

Miningman
Tourist and scenic rails hanging on, thankfully. 

Well, we're trying, but there are those who would like to see tourist lines taken out as well...

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • 1,997 posts
Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Thursday, January 26, 2017 8:58 PM

That old confucius saying, "May you live in interesting times" seems too often to be coming to pass.

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Thursday, January 26, 2017 10:12 PM

It's rather striking to see in those pictures up into the early '50's idyllic settings that were connected and serviced by railroads that themselves were quaint and idyllic and yet now so so much is gone. To what end? Many will say progress, I say nonsense. 

Keep the fire burning Tree68...the uber wealthy want these settings to themselves without the railroads disturbing their afternoon nap, or whatever...more nonsense. System rigged in their favour. 

There is no rail left whatsoever in Newfoundland...thats a huge chunk of land on the ocean with more ports than you can count. No rail left in P.E.I., ..all gone....New Brunswick decimated and more considered for ripping up, same with Nova Scotia, lots lost in Nova Scotia with Cape Breton facing extinction....then consider all of New England, not that long ago, once so very very rich in railroading, a source of pride and importance and permanence. So many fallen flags, lost, removed and buried. Poof gone. 

If we woke up tomorrow with the railroads existing in these areas mentioned the way they were in say 1948, 1952 or anything like that, ...kind of the opposite of poof gone...but poof "here you are" just exactly how bad would that be?   Not bad at all actually...lots of employment, lots of purpose, lots of quaintness restored...less efficient? C'mon! Pennies...nothing but pennies. You think the good folks of the North East and the Maritimes would be mad and angry...No, they would not. The uber rich would gnash their teeth, that's all. 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 19,199 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, January 26, 2017 10:24 PM

Railroads are one thing - the industries and jobs that were supported by the railroads are the real story.  The industries and jobs are gone - so are the railroads.

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Thursday, January 26, 2017 11:19 PM

.....BaltACD- Bingo! You are correct as far as New England goes ...isn't that what your election was about?  Enough is enough? " Rusted out factories scattered like tombstones across the landscape of our Nation" and "the Establishment protected itself but not the citizens of our country...their victories have not been your victories". Hopefully a turnaround coming but likely too late for what was fallen flag wise...some feeder lines could be restored. 

The Maritime Provinces simply followed suit as they were tied into the US rail system somewhat, especially New Brunswick branches and the Quebec south shore.....but Newfoundland and Prince Edward Island were just plain stupid government decisions. I will give kudos to CN in Halifax, Nova Scotia,  but they were still addle minded when it came to the rest of the province. 

My point was it should not have happened in the first place. Whether back then you were sold out, tricked, fooled, betrayed, sold a bill of bs, manipulated, or whatever I am truly solidly rooting for you guys big time to get it back. Then if the railroads pop up like mushrooms again ...well that would be just great wouldn't it? 

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • 4,190 posts
Posted by wanswheel on Friday, January 27, 2017 1:07 AM

Pages from a book written for junior high school students. I don't remember learning much of this.

https://archive.org/stream/geographyofnewen00emer#page/20/mode/2up

NDG
  • Member since
    December 2013
  • 1,400 posts
Posted by NDG on Friday, January 27, 2017 2:59 AM

 

Thank You.

NDG
  • Member since
    December 2013
  • 1,400 posts
Posted by NDG on Sunday, January 29, 2017 9:31 PM

Thank You.

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Sunday, January 29, 2017 9:48 PM

Very cool NDG. Algoma Steel rails..from Sault. Ste. Marie, Ontario!

Little do our American friends know about our line of defence against them in case of invasion...the famous "Pine Tree Line"...with a guy behind every pine tree with a sling shot.

Oop, I let the cat out of the bag didn't I? Oh well.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, January 29, 2017 10:45 PM

Miningman

Very cool NDG. Algoma Steel rails..from Sault. Ste. Marie, Ontario!

Little do our American friends know about our line of defence against them in case of invasion...the famous "Pine Tree Line"...with a guy behind every pine tree with a sling shot.

Oop, I let the cat out of the bag didn't I? Oh well.

 

Yes, slingshots are dangerous weapons--and rocks thrown by hand can also be deleterious. In one major battle of the War for Southern Independence, one group of defenders ran out of ammunition for their muskets and began throwing rocks at the invaders.The newly appointed major general of the invading army had boasted that he was used to seeing the backside of the enemy--in this battle, the defenders saw his backside; he was relieved of his command. 

Johnny

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Sunday, January 29, 2017 11:33 PM

There actually is, or was, a strategy outlined for invading Canada for whatever reasons, a "just in case" sort of thing. I have seen and read it...was made in the fifties I believe. It has a strong railroad connotation to it. The main stategy and goal was to capture Winnipeg and severe the rail lines between the East and the West thereby dividing the country in two. Capturing and destroying the railroads in Winnipeg was the key strategy to victory.  Fascinating. 

Winnipeg has two seasons...brutally cold winters and then the big honkin mosquito season. Actually if you just phoned and asked we would probably just give it to you. 

With your new administration maybe the preferred plan now would be to just buy Canada. 

NDG
  • Member since
    December 2013
  • 1,400 posts
Posted by NDG on Monday, January 30, 2017 3:39 AM

Thank You.

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 12,046 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, January 30, 2017 9:04 AM

The "War for Southern Independence"??  Is this an alternative fact?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Monday, January 30, 2017 10:35 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH

The "War for Southern Independence"??  Is this an alternative fact?

 

The fact is the states in the South declared that they were no longer under the government in Washington, D. C.--they were not fighting to control that government, but to assert their independence from that government. 

Johnny

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy