String Lining.

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Posted by AgentKid on Tuesday, July 30, 2019 6:43 PM

SD70Dude
And from the Classic Canadian Pacific facebook group (photographer Henry Niznik), here is Irricana, AB in 1969:

Thank you, thank you!Crying

I've waited over 50 years to see pictures like that.

My station!

On the left is the Section Foreman's house, and his tool and speeder shed.

To the right of the switch to the backtrack was the Roadmaster's house. to the right of the siding switch was the site of the water tower. In the top photo Henry is standing about where the coal dock would have been, on his left. The picture is looking due north. The wye to the Irricana Sub. is just past the grade crossing indicated by the whistle signal. This is the Langdon Sub.

The last summer we were there, 1964, Henry, his brother Arthur, my brother and I rode in the cupola of the caboose on the mixed north from Irricana to Beiseker, 5 miles. He had the first HO train set I ever saw. I last saw Henry at a train show in Calgary about 1972. Dad gave him a reference and arranged for him to be hired by the CPR in the late '70's. He worked for a long time as an Operator at Brooks, AB.

Thank You, thank you.

Bruce

 

So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.

"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere"  CP Rail Public Timetable

"O. S. Irricana"

. . . __ . ______

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Posted by SD70Dude on Tuesday, July 30, 2019 7:14 PM

Your friend posted those himself, still alive and kicking.  Here's another one:

Image may contain: train, sky, plant and outdoor

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by AgentKid on Tuesday, July 30, 2019 9:34 PM

Image may contain: train, sky, plant and outdoor

My that image was taken at a very specific point in time. They have taken down the train order semeaphore, but not yet ripped out the platform. Running a wayfreight instead of the mixed train.

The cement blocks in the foreground were used as the base for the water tower. It was a very long time before they were removed, long after the tracks had been pulled up.

Maybe it is because I know what I am looking for, but I think I can make out the post with the crossbucks for the grade crossing near the back of the train. It is on the crossing.

Boy, the yard went bad after we left. Funny though, it looks like they got more rain than some of the years I remember.

Thank you very much.

Bruce

 

So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.

"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere"  CP Rail Public Timetable

"O. S. Irricana"

. . . __ . ______

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, July 30, 2019 11:13 PM

Way to go Dude! Superb find. Made Bruce's day that's for sure. Amazing. 

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Posted by cx500 on Wednesday, July 31, 2019 6:21 PM

NDG
String Lining?

Quite plausible.  Those are the undersides of autoracks, which are both long and very light, and the leg of the wye that accesses Sarcee Yard has fairly tight curvature.  The ingredients are there.  The direction of travel is not mentioned.

(Added)  There were also strong gusty winds at the time, at least in my part of Calgary.

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Thursday, August 01, 2019 5:09 PM

 

FYI.
 
Gas Pipeline Rupture, Kentucky.
 
Rupture point after Time 4:35.
 
 
Note Rwy. RoW. ties smoking .
 
Thank You.

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, August 01, 2019 5:56 PM

NDG
FYI.
 
Gas Pipeline Rupture, Kentucky.
 
Rupture point after Time 4:35.
 
 
Note Rwy. RoW. ties smoking .
 
Thank You.

Amazing, what got incenerated and what didn't.  I am also surprised at the depth of the crater under the level of the gas pipe.

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Thursday, August 01, 2019 5:59 PM

WOW. They definitely found the weak spot in the pipe.

Pipe lines are safer than trains until they are not.

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, August 01, 2019 6:11 PM

Electroliner 1935
WOW. They definitely found the weak spot in the pipe.

Pipe lines are safer than trains until they are not.

Everything is safer than something else - until it isn't.Oops - Sign

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, August 01, 2019 6:45 PM

Anyone notice those (what look like) chunks and slabs of concrete in and around the crater?

Any ideas of what was there?  Some kind of monitoring station?  A line pressurizing unit?  

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, August 01, 2019 6:57 PM

Enbridge Tetco pipeline. 

https://www.enbridge.com/map#map:infrastructure

As far as I know no recompressor at this point, and pipe buried deep.  Accident site said to be a 'trailer park' subdivision.

Would you believe the initial explosion showed up on weather radar?

Some more still pictures of the accident site were here.

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, August 01, 2019 7:47 PM

Electroliner 1935
They definitely found the weak spot in the pipe.

Saw video, etc, a few years ago where I believe a farmer managed to get to a pipeline - the details escape me.  Not sure what he was doing deep enough in his field to do so.  As I recall, he succumbed in the ensuing blow torch.  It was in a field, so no other damage.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
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Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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Posted by AgentKid on Thursday, August 01, 2019 8:43 PM

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67239723_515769339248449_3014039934722899968_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQnBy3oD0J_gK5MHUzclFajDyukC0FnTigOIutIBYUt75J-iX_zkCPIZMufgTTnWvrc&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=527a9e67a08a2c32863f7c79fbcf96a0&oe=5DEE4601

I'm not sure if 'dude ever had occasion to work the Three Hills Sub., but I thought I would post a bit of additional information.

The CN line ran parallel to the CP line to the west, or left in this photo. Or at least I always thought they did until the invention of Google Maps, when I dicovered the lines are very slightly closer together at the north end of town than they are coming in from the south.

The Section House is about one third of the distance from the CP line to the CN line. The CN station was due west from the CP station on the west side of the CN line.

The CN station was one of the standard GTP type stations. The freight shed was on the north end of the station. For the benefit of our American readers, small town GTP stations were about as uniform in shape as the marbles you had as children. Looking at a station, the only variation you could see was is the freight shed on the left, or right of the office.

'dude, thanks again for posting these photos.

Bruce

 

So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.

"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere"  CP Rail Public Timetable

"O. S. Irricana"

. . . __ . ______

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, August 01, 2019 9:26 PM

Mod-man, if that explosion was big enough to destroy everything within what looks like a 200 yard radius I'm not surprised it showed up on weather radar.

Must have packed the punch of a World War Two blockbuster.

 

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Friday, August 02, 2019 3:56 PM

 

Pressure.
 
Question to Mr. Overmod.
 
What would the pressure be in a pipeline of the size in the rupture shown above? Please.
 
How far apart would the shut off valves be?
 
We have three 3 gas pipelines not far from here, and there is a ' Tap ' and an
 
an Odorizing station where a scent is introduced into the gas to identify gas
 
leaks.
 
There are also entry/exit points where cleaning and testing ' pigs ' can be
 
introduced/removed from the pipes.
 
Site of Tap and Odorizing station.
 
 
Main Lines run East West.
 
Thank You.

 

 

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Posted by AgentKid on Friday, August 02, 2019 9:34 PM

NDG
Derailment, Evacuation, TCH Closed, Hazmat.

21.7 miles east of Medicine Hat. No word yet on what type of material or if it has leaked.

Bruce

 

So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.

"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere"  CP Rail Public Timetable

"O. S. Irricana"

. . . __ . ______

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, August 03, 2019 9:30 AM

NDG
What would the pressure be in a pipeline of the size in the rupture shown above?

I don't know the specific pressure used for the now-Enbridge TETCO lines, or indeed whether it was reduced when the failures in the particular 'accident' line began to occur.  I suspect it was at the high end of the industry range of pressures for these trunk lines, which is given as up to 1500psi.  I think Midland Mike knows much more about the specifics, and probably has better reference sources or industry connections, than I do.

How far apart would the shut off valves be?

They are more frequent than recompression stations (which, themselves, are more frequent along the line than I would have suspected).  Industry sources have them 5 to 20 miles apart; I have no firsthand knowledge how they are actuated when a failure is detected, or how fast it is safe for them to act.

There's somewhat more involved in recompressing and cooling gas in some of these lines that I think most people realize.  One of the principal trunks parallels the New Jersey Turnpike and has a station that is visible to the west side of the road, as I recall around the Raritan River crossing area.  This involved large gas-turbine-driven compressors and it was sobering to observe the sheer amount of heat released (in visibly shimmering waves, slightly but visibly browned with what I suspect was thermally-induced NOx)

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Posted by tree68 on Saturday, August 03, 2019 10:03 AM

NDG
How far apart would the shut off valves be?

A large part of the problem is the sheer volume in the pipes, along with the degree of compression.  

I don't know what size that pipe is/was.  Based on the aerial images I saw, a foot in diameter would be underestimating it.

Lacking that info, I'll use what I do know - fire hose.  We use "large diameter hose" (LDH), usually 4" or 5" in diameter.  My department uses 5" LDH.

In order to just fill the 1,000' of LDH we carry on our pumper, it takes about 1,000 gallons of water.

That's around 133 cubic feet.  

When a rupture occurs in, say, a natural gas line, all of the gas in the line between control points (pump stations and valves) will still be available to burn.  At pressures such as the 1500 PSI mentioned, that's a lot of fuel for the blowtorch, even if the control points could be closed at the moment of rupture.

This is why it may take a while for such a fire to burn out.  

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, August 03, 2019 10:11 AM

tree68
When a rupture occurs in, say, a natural gas line, all of the gas in the line between control points (pump stations and valves) will still be available to burn.  At pressures such as the 1500 PSI mentioned, that's a lot of fuel for the blowtorch, even if the control points could be closed at the moment of rupture.

This is why it may take a while for such a fire to burn out.  

Analagous to disappating the kenitic engergy of a moving train when it derails.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, August 03, 2019 11:39 AM

The thing that concerns me is by the time the cause of the explosion is determined the "news cycle" will have moved on, and we'll never hear of it.

Possibly not  the "news cycle" of that area in Kentucky, however.  So, if any posters on this Forum live out that way please keep us informed if you learn anything.   I'm sure we'd all like to know.

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Posted by Paul of Covington on Saturday, August 03, 2019 12:08 PM

tree68
I don't know what size that pipe is/was. Based on the aerial images I saw, a foot in diameter would be underestimating it.

   One source I found says it was 30".   I didn't find much else.

_____________

   "A stranger is just a friend you ain't met yet."  ___ Dave Gardner

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Saturday, August 03, 2019 2:26 PM
Thank You SIRS!!! for the Information.
 
What brought about the question was recalling a run away train in California? many years ago.
 
During clean up, a bulldozer nicked a pipeline which was transporting Gasoline? which then later leaked,
 
flooding a suburban area. It ignited, causing a great fire, apparently made worse by the fluid still in the pipe
 
running back downgrade from many miles of pipe. A check valve failed?
 
With all the controversy pertaining to rail vs pipeline transportation it makes one wonder about residual volumes
 
In lines and the pressure under which they operate to for, in liquids' case, to push aforesaid over mountain passes
 
where applicable.
 
LONG multi-united buffer car equipped unit oil train pass thru here every few days often with a rainbow of roads
 
for power. ( NS the other day )
 
 
When they deadhead power East, they often run eight 8 coupled, not all on line, on the head end.
 
 
As said the Volume per mile inside a 48 inch pipe would be amazing, and the power require to force same over
 
a several thousand foot summit would be considerable.
 
 
That large green coated pipe passes thru here in long trains from time to time.
 
 
 
Years ago, in Popular Science?  read about them sending pigs thru the pipe, propelled by compressed air, to
 
clean out debris from construction. The pig had a cow bell attached to it's rear, and spotters were stationed
 
above the pipe to listen for it going by beneath the ground, and would 'OS ' it by.
 
 
We were out in 4x4 trucks eons ago and followed the main pipeline, only one 1 pipe, then, and came to a
 
a creek crossing where the earth above the pipe had been eroded by spring runoff and was exposed.
 
Expected to hear later that some red neck with a rifle was shooting at it.
 
In those days rifles and shotguns would be carried in racks openly in the rear cab windows, a hand gun
 
in the glove box, beer and whisky under the seat. Prime game target were road signs, NBL.
 
 
Many years ago the local train bridge was found to have defects right from the factory. There were a series
 
of three, constructed c. 1970 to replace three c. 1914 which were too light, limiting the locomotives that
 
could be used.
 
 
On one trip I was on the Engineer refused to take a CPA-16-4, CP 4052, as it was Prohibited by weight by
 
the ETT. The Roundhouse Foreman said it was okay, as the S/G had been removed and had a Wire to that
 
effect in the office. The Engr. went and looked, NO S/G,  and took it.
 
Train Masters and E8s were Prohibited. CP 8921, too.
 
 
 
CP E8 Backing, Note two 2 S/Gs.
 
 
On many Cab Units, the rear light is on the RIGHT Side.
 
 
Anyway,  Dominion Bridge came out to gusset the bridges, one by one, and for a long time they had a 5 MPH
 
Slow Order on them. Yellow and Green flags displayed. This really pissed off the crews, who were always
 
whining about something, ( That the jobs had got cushy with get on/get off Unit Train Service with 5 man crew did
 
not count,  rather that 6 hours flat switching to make up one's own train at the Crow, then pumping up
 
@ - 35 F. for the 1.9 % descending at the mile board. )
 
 
Whilst the gusseting was going on, Section Men, and others would set tin cans across the RoW and try
 
shoot them with a .22 Rifle between the coal cars on the trains passing  @ 5 MPH on the Slow for the
 
Bridge. The cars had the galleries at each end, and there was quite a gap. This quickly degraded, on
 
Saturdays, to try and hit the Bells on Slave Units passing @ 5 MPH.
 
 
Way back, the Robot Cars containing the remote equipment to operate the Slave locomotives all had a
 
number. When a Unit Train approached, all men on the ground would guess the Number and put in a Quarter.
 
When the Robot Car passed, the man with the closest guess would get the pot.
 
 
Forty years  ago.
 
Thank You, Sirs!
 
FWIW.
 
Large N/G Tandem Double Acting Pipe Line Engines and Pumps.
 
 
 
LOVELY!!  
 
The Internet changed it's software a few weeks ago and it does not compose and match as it did before. 
 
Sorry.  
 
 
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Posted by AgentKid on Saturday, August 03, 2019 2:29 PM

NDG
Derailment, Evacuation, TCH Closed, Hazmat

Hazmat was styreme. Fire is out using foam. Everyone is home. Media was impressed with cleanup operation, although they must not have used their spellchecker-they called it Dunbar, not Dunmore.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/irving-derailment-spill-update-1.5235783

It was 35º C at the time of the wreck, so I suspect heat will be a factor as a cause. Pretty warm for us folk.

Bruce

 

So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.

"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere"  CP Rail Public Timetable

"O. S. Irricana"

. . . __ . ______

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Saturday, August 03, 2019 2:52 PM

 

OS.

Thank You!

At least it was not a whole train of the stuff! The empty oil trains really ROLL thru here as downgrade.

Years ago, at the Crow, the Telegrapher could plug in the separate DS Wires, East and West, on his desk.

At night, the wires were all cut through, and he could listen to the OSs, NSs, SDRs Copy 3s or 5s, etc. from Dunmore to Penticton.

Some of the Office Call Letters in the Time Tables did NOT match the Station Names AT ALL!

As I recall, there once was a Staff System of Operation btwn Dunmore and Medicine Hat ( The Hat. )

Those old photos really hit home as to the way things used to be, seemed to all really go to Hell once CP Rail and the Multi Mark arrived.

Miss Youth and the Past.

Thank You.

 

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Saturday, August 03, 2019 4:03 PM

FYI.

Tender Oil Tanks.

When CPR Converted a coal-burning locomotive to Oil Firing, a Wedgish-shaped tank with a flat top and a round filling hatch and cover was constructed and inserted in the coal space in the tender.

As these tanks were new when the Diesels came and could easily be removed w a crane, the tanks would have the round hatch opening plated over and welded shut, and the tank rotated bottom side up with the flat-top Pyramid once-bottom now as top.

These tanks were placed at Stations for furnace fuel oil,  Brocket, Alberta had one.

Other of the flat top pyramid tanks were placed on flat cars and used for Fire Service.

Thank You.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, August 03, 2019 4:26 PM

NDG
As said the Volume per mile inside a 48 inch pipe would be amazing, and the power require to force same over a several thousand foot summit would be considerable.

It surely is, but keep in mind that the pipe over a summit constitutes an inverted siphon, so the mass going down counterbalances some of the mass up.  Same is true to a greater extent in 'sags' where vacuum effects don't apply and some of the volatiles in the pipeline don't 'flash' to vapor at the reduced pressure.  Even small air leaks, though, can cause difficulties.

I believe there are accounts of the first pipeline from western Pennsylvania across to tidewater (that was so doggedly fought by the railroads) -- heavy pumping was required at each sequential upgrade to fill the line.  It can be fun to realize just how many tons are represented by the fluid in a filled pipeline and how much displacement per second is involved in forcing it to nominal psi to get fluid flow to move 'at the far end'.

As I recall, the gasoline pipeline at Duffy Street in 1989 (the double accident you remember) ran at 150psi, and when it first ruptured it took a strikingly long time to actually catch fire -- not as dramatically long as at Bellingham, where a couple of the victims died of vapor asphyxiation, not fire, but still far from immediately.  Read some of the accounts of how the backhoe in question was operated, despite great care supposedly being taken to protect the buried line.

Carry on with these stories!  I love to hear them.

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, August 03, 2019 4:34 PM

AgentKid

 

 
NDG
Derailment, Evacuation, TCH Closed, Hazmat

 

Hazmat was styreme. Fire is out using foam. Everyone is home. Media was impressed with cleanup operation, although they must not have used their spellchecker-they called it Dunbar, not Dunmore.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/irving-derailment-spill-update-1.5235783

It was 35º C at the time of the wreck, so I suspect heat will be a factor as a cause. Pretty warm for us folk.

Bruce

 

 

Brce, I doubt that either name would be found in any spellchecker. Whoever named the place to the reporter must not be able to talk clearly--or are both names pronounced the same? Or does the reporter need an earwash?

Johnny

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, August 03, 2019 7:11 PM

AgentKid

 

 
NDG
Derailment, Evacuation, TCH Closed, Hazmat

 

Hazmat was styreme. Fire is out using foam. Everyone is home. Media was impressed with cleanup operation, although they must not have used their spellchecker-they called it Dunbar, not Dunmore.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/irving-derailment-spill-update-1.5235783

It was 35º C at the time of the wreck, so I suspect heat will be a factor as a cause. Pretty warm for us folk.

Bruce

 

 

Bruce, I doubt that either name would be found in any spellchecker. Whoever named the place to the reporter must not be able to talk clearly--or are both names pronounced the same? Or does the reporter need an earwash?

Johnny

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