http://www.news3lv.com/content/news/story/Teens-game-of-chicken-causes-train-to-derail/Eh6nNq_ecU-eDn0GxLzz1Q.cspx What's that saying? The Lord must love dumb people. He made so many of them? Beyond the obvious of what's wrong with this picture, I have a railroad question. If I'm reading this right, it seems that a train of empty auto racks came upon a pickup on the tracks playing chicken with the train. According to the news article, "the conductor slammed on the emergency brakes, causing the train to derail". Really?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
"The cargo was empty"?
I guess we just have to forgive them for they know not what they write.
In spite of how poorly the article was written (not only don't they know what, they don't know how!), the situation you're asking about is 100 percent plausible, Norris.Although I suspect that this reporter doesn't know the difference between an engineer and a conductor (a common affliction these days), the conductor can usually be found in the cab of a train, across from the engineer, and he does have an emergency brake valve on his side of the cab. And just the fact that the brakes grab more quickly on some cars than on others is enough to cause strong enough slack action to lift portions of cars off the rail and deposit them not quite where they belong.(If we have the facts right there, I can imagine the engineer being very upset with his conductor for taking matters into his own hands, if proper train handling left them with a better option. But one hopes that that discussion would end right there in the cab.)
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Running the slack-in in emergency is never a good thing. The weakest link will certainly go up while in compression.
The local idiots now are looking at a federal rap-sheet.
The "newsworker" probably thinks all operating employees are conductors.
Tens of thousands?
Euclid Train brakes go into “Emergency” with great frequency. Sometimes that “Emergency” application causes a train to derail. The event that causes the train to go into “Emergency” has nothing to do with the actual cause of the derailment.
The shyster for the Defense has spoken!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I am not defending the guys in the truck. Obviously they violated the grade crossing law. If they got hit doing that, and the train derailed, I could see a charge for derailing the train. But if the train derailed simply because it was put into an acceptable, routine phase of braking, I doubt that the charge will stick. Any good lawyer will tell the jury that the train was defectively unsafe because a brake application piled it up.
And a good lawyer will explain that emergency braking is not a routine phase of braking. Hence the term:
EMERGENCY.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann And a good lawyer will explain that emergency braking is not a routine phase of braking. Hence the term: EMERGENCY.
I just knew somebody would point that out. I worried about the word, "routine." Maybe a better way to say it is that the "Emergency" phase is a normal part of the brake system even though an actual emergency requiring the quick stopping is not normal.
Euclideven though an actual emergency requiring the quick stopping is not normal.
Hence, not routine. Kind of hurts your argument a bit counselor.
Euclid Any good lawyer will tell the jury that the train was defectively unsafe because a brake application piled it up.
Make that any shyster lawyer and we might agree with you. No reputable lawyer who has done his homework would make such a claim knowing it could easily be refuted by the railroad's attorneys.
Norm
Cue the ECP argument.
Wait for it.....
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Norm48327 Euclid Any good lawyer will tell the jury that the train was defectively unsafe because a brake application piled it up. Make that any shyster lawyer and we might agree with you. No reputable lawyer who has done his homework would make such a claim knowing it could easily be refuted by the railroad's attorneys.
But for the fact that the pickup was on the tracks the emergency brake would not have been applied. The railroad could sue these guys for reckless endangerment along with property damage not to mention trespassing.
EuclidThe railroad lawyers would know better than to promote the fact that their brake systems can endanger the public and cause more damage than the emergency that they address.
Only in your world, Bucky.
Ulrich But for the fact that the pickup was on the tracks the emergency brake would not have been applied. The railroad could sue these guys for reckless endangerment along with property damage not to mention trespassing.
Oh yes absolutely true on all counts.
Makes me wonder if the two "gentlemen" now entwined in the court system were watching "Groundhog Day" and taking a cue from that. Mailboxes, etc.
[Driving down the railroad tracks toward an approaching train]
Phil: I'm betting he's going to swerve first.
I'll tell 'ya boys, the "Singapore Solution" for vandals, i.e. flogging with a bamboo cane, is sounding better and better.
Again - in our house - right or wrong the saying was "hit them first and then apply the emergency. We aren't going into emergency and then they get out of the way".
I would imagine it would be hard to prove at the investigation that there was this phantom car, individual, whatever....
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Back in the '90s up in New Jersey there was a rash of tresspasser incidents, people hit by trains, on Conrail's West Shore line. Conrail put out the word in the local papers, if anyone was walking on the tracks the train crews were NOT going to put the trains into emergency stop, possibly causing any derailments which could be devastating in that densely populated area, to say nothing about any injuries that might happen to the train crews.
They'd stop after the hit, not before. I don't believe there were any incidents for a long, long time after the announcement.
Mookie Again - in our house - right or wrong the saying was "hit them first and then apply the emergency. We aren't going into emergency and then they get out of the way". I would imagine it would be hard to prove at the investigation that there was this phantom car, individual, whatever....
MookieI would imagine it would be hard to prove at the investigation that there was this phantom car, individual, whatever....
Most engines have cameras on them now. Pretty easy to prove.
EuclidI think that is the important point. If you are far enough away for an emergency application to slow down enough to make much difference, there is still plenty of time for the vehicle to get out of the way. If you are so close that a collision is almost certain, it is too late for an emergency application to make much difference. It would be interesting to know exactly what went on in the case of this game of chicken.
Unfortunately for the people in the cab, the seconds leading up to such a decision don't normally allow for these philosophical decisions.
zugmann Euclid I think that is the important point. If you are far enough away for an emergency application to slow down enough to make much difference, there is still plenty of time for the vehicle to get out of the way. If you are so close that a collision is almost certain, it is too late for an emergency application to make much difference. It would be interesting to know exactly what went on in the case of this game of chicken. Unfortunately for the people in the cab, the seconds leading up to such a decision don't normally allow for these philosophical decisions.
Euclid I think that is the important point. If you are far enough away for an emergency application to slow down enough to make much difference, there is still plenty of time for the vehicle to get out of the way. If you are so close that a collision is almost certain, it is too late for an emergency application to make much difference. It would be interesting to know exactly what went on in the case of this game of chicken.
It is not philosophical at all. It is pure common sense, and it should be thought through way before the seconds that call for decision and action.
EuclidIt is not philosophical at all. It is pure common sense, and it should be thought through way before the seconds that call for decision and action.
Ok. Lay it out for us. When should an engineer dump (or not dump) his train? List some scenarios. Shouldn't be hard. After all, it's just common sense. Hell, I want to make a checklist.
I eagerly await your reply.
And I'll ask: have you ever been in T&E or in a position of RR management?
Really?
Come back and talk to us when you've got a couple thousand hours in the seat...
Euclid zugmann Euclid I think that is the important point. If you are far enough away for an emergency application to slow down enough to make much difference, there is still plenty of time for the vehicle to get out of the way. If you are so close that a collision is almost certain, it is too late for an emergency application to make much difference. It would be interesting to know exactly what went on in the case of this game of chicken. Unfortunately for the people in the cab, the seconds leading up to such a decision don't normally allow for these philosophical decisions. It is not philosophical at all. It is pure common sense, and it should be thought through way before the seconds that call for decision and action.
Murphy Siding It might be easier to just stop digging the hole deeper.Black Eye
But I'm bored.
zugmann Murphy Siding It might be easier to just stop digging the hole deeper.Black Eye But I'm bored.
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