Kenworth or Peterbilt- who makes the better locomotive?

[carnej1]

tdmidget

 

 

carnej1

You still don't seem to understand that a kenworth and a peterbuilt differ only in ornamentation. Traditionally the real work truck was a Mack, now just a warmed over Volvo. Since the aquisition of Mack by Volvo there are no manufacturers of clas 7 and 8 trucks in the USA, only assemblers using engines, gearboxes, suspensions and final drives from a very few manufacturers. Different badges, front caps, and trim do not a different truck make.

 

 

466lex

 

 

Paul of Covington

   I'm curious: is traction supplied by the rubber tires on the rails or through steel wheels?

 

 

 

 

Through the tires.  Descriptive video:  https://player.vimeo.com/video/75325768

 

 

 

 

 

 Power via the rubber tires contacting the railhead is common in North America but in other parts of the world powered rail wheels are also used on hi-rail vehicles:

http://www.windhoff.de/e/index_ft.htm

 One class of vehicles we see in N.A that often (but not always) use powered rail wheels are rail car movers like Trackmobiles...

 But to address the O.P's question: While I'm not in the trucking business I note that Kenworth seems to have the greater market share in heavy duty applications like construction , logging, oilfield service ect.. so that may explain why they are a preferred manufacturer (along with Western Star)for the Brandt conversions. O.C, Peterbilt is a sister company under the same ownership so I'm sure they have some product overlap but they seem to focus more on longhaul OTR trucks..

 

 

 

 

 

 Correct, because I am not employed in the trucking industry and this is not a trucking forum..

 My statement about Kenworths being common vocational trucks is accurate, confirmed by passing on my commute the 12 wheeler dumptrucks common in New England (which used to be dominated by Mack and Autocar,back when they only needed 10 wheels (3 axles)) and looking at logging videos from the Northwest.

 My impression is thatPacar seems to promote the Kenworth line over Peterbilt for construction,logging, oilfield type vocational service..

Brandt, as pointed out by other posters, is using Freightliner chassis (basically identical to Western Star, correct?) now anyway...

 

[droughtquake]

tdmidget

carnej1 You still don't seem to understand that a kenworth and a peterbuilt differ only in ornamentation. Traditionally the real work truck was a Mack, now just a warmed over Volvo. Since the aquisition of Mack by Volvo there are no manufacturers of clas 7 and 8 trucks in the USA, only assemblers using engines, gearboxes, suspensions and final drives from a very few manufacturers. Different badges, front caps, and trim do not a different truck make.

Volvo-White-GMC-Mack?  ;-)

[tdmidget]

carnej1

You still don't seem to understand that a kenworth and a peterbuilt differ only in ornamentation. Traditionally the real work truck was a Mack, now just a warmed over Volvo. Since the aquisition of Mack by Volvo there are no manufacturers of clas 7 and 8 trucks in the USA, only assemblers using engines, gearboxes, suspensions and final drives from a very few manufacturers. Different badges, front caps, and trim do not a different truck make.

 

 

466lex

 

 

Paul of Covington

   I'm curious: is traction supplied by the rubber tires on the rails or through steel wheels?

 

 

 

 

Through the tires.  Descriptive video:  https://player.vimeo.com/video/75325768

 

 

 

 

 

 Power via the rubber tires contacting the railhead is common in North America but in other parts of the world powered rail wheels are also used on hi-rail vehicles:

http://www.windhoff.de/e/index_ft.htm

 One class of vehicles we see in N.A that often (but not always) use powered rail wheels are rail car movers like Trackmobiles...

 But to address the O.P's question: While I'm not in the trucking business I note that Kenworth seems to have the greater market share in heavy duty applications like construction , logging, oilfield service ect.. so that may explain why they are a preferred manufacturer (along with Western Star)for the Brandt conversions. O.C, Peterbilt is a sister company under the same ownership so I'm sure they have some product overlap but they seem to focus more on longhaul OTR trucks..

 

[Wizlish]

Just seen over on RyPN:

http://teespring.com/thats-cute-norfolksouthern?i=PPEemployers#pid=2&cid=2397&sid=front

I only wish I had the standing to wear one of these.

[carnej1]

466lex

 

 

Paul of Covington

   I'm curious: is traction supplied by the rubber tires on the rails or through steel wheels?

 

 

 

 

Through the tires.  Descriptive video:  https://player.vimeo.com/video/75325768

 

 

 Power via the rubber tires contacting the railhead is common in North America but in other parts of the world powered rail wheels are also used on hi-rail vehicles:

http://www.windhoff.de/e/index_ft.htm

 One class of vehicles we see in N.A that often (but not always) use powered rail wheels are rail car movers like Trackmobiles...

 But to address the O.P's question: While I'm not in the trucking business I note that Kenworth seems to have the greater market share in heavy duty applications like construction , logging, oilfield service ect.. so that may explain why they are a preferred manufacturer (along with Western Star)for the Brandt conversions. O.C, Peterbilt is a sister company under the same ownership so I'm sure they have some product overlap but they seem to focus more on longhaul OTR trucks..

[mikeyuhas]

A friend refers to Brandt Power Units as "choo choo trucks."

[loco6625]

Brandt did build build a track mobile early on with a rotating boom to load or off load ties into open gondolas. The new kid in the block is the Trackmobile Titan. Pictures and specks are in the October,2015 Trains Magazine, page 18. It is now strictley used for in yard switching. It has many options. Cummins QSB6. turbocharged is the main power. Goodyear tires for in yard road travel, and are mated hydraulic with 27-inch AAR standard rail wheels that have gear-like extensions of the rail wheels. Proprietary, fully compatible couplers and angle cocks controlled by operator from the cab. Max. No of freight cars hauled -60. Typical No -25.

[Robert Holman]

Western Star, once built in British Columbia, is now wholly owned by Daimler Chrysler Corp., who owns Freightliner Corp..... the WS is built in Portland Oregon in the old Freightliner shops. Freightliner is now built in Mexico....

[Wizlish]

trains577

I guess most of you don't know but both Kenworth and Peterbilt are own by the same group Paccar so both are the same but for a few changes to the body, I know I have driven both and own a Peterbilt and have over 4 million miles driving

Midget said this back on the 26th and it was discussed then.

Freightliner 'builds the better locomotive'.  (Just as they build the better Class VIII, but I digress...)

[trains577]

I guess most of you don't know but both Kenworth and Peterbilt are own by the same group Paccar so both are the same but for a few changes to the body, I know I have driven both and own a Peterbilt and have over 4 million miles driving

[M636C]

Big Bill wrote the following post 3 hours ago:

Not that I am doubting the veracity of anything you say, but speaking as a mechanic: how, exactly, does this work?

Without somehow changing one set of cams for another, running the engine backwards would send the exhause out the intake; quite the trick, even for a diesel.

I should have said that there were two sets of cams on the camshaft, one for each direction, and sliding the camshaft along its axis brings the correct set of cams into place.

I knew what I was trying to say, but didn't give the full picture: sorry...

M636C

 

[tree68]

Big Bill

Without somehow changing one set of cams for another,

Based on this site, that's essentially what happens:  http://www.brighthubengineering.com/marine-engines-machinery/60584-reversing-of-marine-engines/

 

[droughtquake]

rvos1979

Reverser box installed behind the main transmission, can then go just as fast in reverse..........

Last I heard, Western Star, owned by Freightliner, now builds their trucks in North Carolina. Peterbilt, a Paccar brand, is the other one I have seen Brandt use. Cummins seems to be the favorite engine used in either..........

 

And Daimler (Mercedes-Benz & Smart Car) owns Freightliner. They kept Freightliner when they got rid of Chrysler. Daimler also bought Ford's heavy truck division and renamed it Sterling. Sterling was discontinued in 2009.

[Big Bill]

Not that I am doubting the veracity of anything you say, but speaking as a mechanic: how, exactly, does this work?

Without somehow changing one set of cams for another, running the engine backwards would send the exhause out the intake; quite the trick, even for a diesel.

[M636C]

tree68 wrote the following post 1 hours ago:

Seems like I've read/heard that some marine Diesels (U-boats?) ran in either direction.  Probably saves the hassle (and potential point of failure) of a reversing box.

Most of the large two stroke marine diesel engines, which run at speeds between 100 and 200 rpm are reversible.

 

They are designed for this, and often have a sliding camshaft that has to be moved between forward and reverse directions.

 

The engine is stopped, the camshaft moved and the engine is restatred in the opposite direction.

 

Moving the cam adjusts the timing so that the inlet and exhaust continue to operate in the correct sequence. As two strokes, they often have inlet ports rather than valves, but the inlet remains the inlet and the exhaust remains the exhaust in either direction.

 

Fortunately, large container ships and similar do not change power setting or direction very often and usually dock with tug assistance.

 

M636C

[vbeach]

My first car was a 68 Buick Special with a 250cu straight six and three speed manual transmission and that was the first year for smog control.  Sometimes, when I would turn it off, it would start dieseling and to get it to stop, I would let the clutch out in first gear with the switch off, funny thing was that it would then back up in first until it stalled.

[tree68]

Seems like I've read/heard that some marine Diesels (U-boats?) ran in either direction.  Probably saves the hassle (and potential point of failure) of a reversing box.

[retvpeng]

The older Detroits were 2 cycle engines (as opposite to their current 4 stroke) that would run in either direction...sometime much to the chagrin of a truck driver. Exhaust smoke would then eminate from the externally mounted air cleaner while combustion air was drawn in through the exhaust pipe.. More than one driver has stalled out at slow speed only to find the engine running backwards.

[Eddystone]

2 strokes will run in reverse and I have seen a Mack do it but they dont run very well, you won't get any power out of it, they spit and sputter. Strange seeing smoke come from the air filter.

[Wizlish]

groomer man

Wizlish you are correct but just to add a point the exhaust valves were left open on Detroit 2-strokes while the liner ports were uncovered to aid in combustion chamber scavenging. When they closed the exhaust ports before the piston went past the ports going back up to TDC they then became supercharged

I am still wondering, though:

Does the water pump circulate coolant properly running in reverse?

Is not the oil pump a positive-displacement gear type with gravity return to the sump?  So not much oil supply in the galleries, and perhaps some places where excessive back-pressure would build up hydraulically ... for a few seconds?

I guess if the fuel transfer pump is mechanical and works off a cam it would pump positive pressure whichever way the engine turns.

What are the 'handed' parts other than the cams and the water pump that are changed out when building a reverse-direction marine Detroit?  I heard a rumor that some applications involved turning the block around with the accessory-drive end modified to fit the bell housing and vice versa -- any truth to it?

[switch7frg]

KFOSTER ,that is wierd to see the old 2 stroker Detroit run reversed and watch the exaust smoke come out the  intake air filter, also all those reverse gears  in the tranny and one forwared gear.

[M636C]

Paul of Covington wrote the following post an hour ago:

   Seems to me it would be handy as a locomotive for short lines that don't handle very many cars at a time.   At the end of the line, just uncouple and drive around for the trip back.

One was purchased by V/line Freight in Victoria, Australia just before privatisation. It was used on some tracks that had been damaged (by floods?) and could not be quickly returned to a standard acceptable for locomotives but on which some traffic was waiting (I think grain) and this unit took four to five grain hoppers at a time. This was on 5'3" gauge (1600mm).

It was a nicely finished vehicle, later in the Freight Australia dark green colours. It was later sold to a track maintenance organisation.

And to address the thread title, this one was a "Western Star".

M636C

 

[466lex]

Here is a history of the Brandt Unit:

 

The 'road-railer' 
While all this restructuring was going on, opportunity struck in the form of innovation in 1991.

 

"Rail line abandonment was happening in Saskatchewan," Gavin recalls. "Grain transport was switching to highway systems, which was a growing concern to the provincial government. The question was, 'What can be done to keep grain hauling on rail and save the deteriorating road system?' The government wanted to facilitate the development of shortline rail companies, but you couldn't have a locomotive on every branch line."

 

The Department of Highways came up with the idea of taking a semi-tractor and putting retractable rail running gear on it, so that it could run on both the road system and the rail system. The modified highway tractor could pull 15 100-ton grain cars. So if you had two towns 100 miles apart, the Road Railer (also known as the Brandt Power Unit) could move from one branch line to another on the road system and then go onto track, hook onto the train cars and pull them down the tracks to the next town.

 

The government tendered the building of a prototype and Brandt was the successful bidder. "They knew of our custom machining and manufacturing division and came to us," Gavin says. "We had been successful in the past in building specialized equipment, so we were given the opportunity to manufacture this unique locomotive. We started working with the Department of Highways on the project."

 

As Brandt began to build the prototype, Jim thought there might be more commercial potential than just the provincial government project, so Gavin went to the government and negotiated the manufacturing and marketing rights in a partnership with the government. They formed a new company (Brandt Road Rail Corporation), and the Brandt Power Unit was born. The first one was sold to Canadian National Railroad (CNR).

 

Brandt bought the patents from the government, and has now developed a full line of rail maintenance equipment for shortline rail companies, Class 1 railways and transit systems in major American cities. "All of the Class 1 railways have Brandt Power Units now," Gavin says.

 

Export sales comprise most of the company's revenues, but it was the idea Brandt nurtured for 10 years before it really caught on, that really excites Gavin. Faith in the idea's potential was necessary long before it was accepted in the market place. "We kept after it and kept after it," Gavin says. "And our specialization approach really paid off. The Brandt Power Unit is a unique product in the world, with a long sales cycle, and the people in that division are completely dedicated to it. Now we sell it across North America, and in Australia, Venezuela, and Mexico."

 

Source:  http://www.prairiepolicycentre.com/index.php/component/k2/itemlist/tag/Gavin%20Semple

 

[Paul of Covington]

   Seems to me it would be handy as a locomotive for short lines that don't handle very many cars at a time.   At the end of the line, just uncouple and drive around for the trip back.

[tree68]

Paul of Covington

   I'm curious: is traction supplied by the rubber tires on the rails or through steel wheels?

Although I did recently see a picture of a "current" truck on which the rubber tires/wheels had been replaced by flanged wheels.

[rvos1979]

I believe Allison supplies the automatic transmissions for the Brandt trucks..........

[466lex]

Paul of Covington

   I'm curious: is traction supplied by the rubber tires on the rails or through steel wheels?

 

Through the tires.  Descriptive video:  https://player.vimeo.com/video/75325768

[Paul of Covington]

   I'm curious: is traction supplied by the rubber tires on the rails or through steel wheels?

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The engine is just one part.  I would like to know who builds the clutch and transmission for these vehicles, they probably get abused a lot worse than the engine.