Kenworth or Peterbilt- who makes the better locomotive?

[Murphy Siding]

     I just saw a work train head by.  It had 4 open hoppers being pulled by a semi truck with train wheels attached.  It looked like an interesting set-up.  The truck had a claw* and a sleeper.  I couldn't see the bottom half of the train as the corn is now about 7 feet tall.  I presume trucks like this would have the ability to switch over to rubber wheel use easily.  Other than in a yard setting, it seems the claw would be of limited use mounted on a truck that has to drive on relatively level terrain?

*I don't know the proper name for the claw in a railroad setting.  My only experience with those has been at the carnival for a quarter.  I never have managed to pick up a stuffed animal or a railroad tie with one of those.

[K. P. Harrier]

Without a doubt Kenworth!

Kenworth "prime movers" have the ability of rotate in reverse.  Peterbilt (spelled correctly) doesn't.

[Norm48327]

The ones I've seen are on a Western Star chassis and look like they could win a tug-of-war with a locomotive.

[NorthWest]

Brandt builds those railroad trucks, but I don't know what engine they use.

The claw is used for grabbing ties.

[BaltACD]

I suspect Brandt will build their 'body' on any truck chassis that the buyer specifies.

[chutton01]

NorthWest

Brandt builds those railroad trucks, but I don't know what engine they use.

I indirectly asked this question last year in a different thread, and the answer is Brandt will convert whichever heavy duty truck the customer requests (with some restrictions of course)

[Murphy Siding]

K. P. Harrier

Without a doubt Kenworth!

Kenworth "prime movers" have the ability of rotate in reverse.  Peterbilt (spelled correctly) doesn't.

 

I'm not sure I understand this.  Wouldn't either one be a typical truck, with forward gears and reverse?

I fixed the spelling.  Maybe I was thinking of the classic truck driver's T-shirt slogan: "Old truckers never die, they just get a new ......"

[K. P. Harrier]

Murphy Siding

 

K. P. Harrier

Without a doubt Kenworth!

Kenworth "prime movers" have the ability of rotate in reverse.  Peterbilt (spelled correctly) doesn't.

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure I understand this.  Wouldn't either one be a typical truck, with forward gears and reverse?

I fixed the spelling.  Maybe I was thinking of the classic truck driver's T-shirt slogan: "Old truckers never die, they just get a new ......"

 

 

 

ENGINES rotate in only one direction.  Through GEARS, a truck (or auto) can be set to go in reverse.  But, in a Kenworth, if something prohibits the engine from rotating forward, it has the ability to rotate in reverse!  That is what is unique about a Kenworth.

Since railroad locomotives don’t use direct drives as truck do, but electrical force, there is no need for a train prime mover to ever go in reverse.  But, in the case of trucks, instead of a Kenworth ripping the engine apart if it can’t rotate, it can try to rotate the opposite way.  I got that tidbit from an old trucker I once knew.

[Eddystone]

The majority of truck makers don't make thier own engines, they buy them from a supplier like Cat, Cummins, International, Detroit Diesel, ect. You can spec a # of different engines in trucks. Mack, International, and Volvo are some of the makers that manufacture their own engines but you can spec other brands in their chassis. Same with the transmission and rears.

[BaltACD]

A internal combustion engine doesn't care which way it rotates as long as the fuel charge and combustion ignition (spark or pressure) are timed correctly.

One snowmobile manufacturer offers reverse on their products - when the reverse switch is tripped, the ignition electronics stop the engine and start it back up in the reverse rotation - when the switch is tripped again the engine will be stopped and restarted in the forward direction.  To do this the ignition electronics have 2 separate trigger mechanisms.  Maximum RPM in the reverse direction is limited by the ignition electronics, in the forward direction RPM are limited by the CVT transmission system.

[tdmidget]

Kenworth and peterbuilt trucks are identical except for trim items . Both are built by Paccar. They have engines by Cummins, Caterpillar and Paccar branded DAF engines from the Netherlands. None of them are capable of direct reversal.

[KFOSTER]

The engines in these trucks could not turn backwards as the exhaust would leave the intake and it would suck air thru the muffler. The only engines i have ever seen do such a thing was a 2 stroke diesel such as the old Detroits. Sadly, they ran almost as good backwards as they did forwards.

[NorthWest]

PACCAR originated as Pacific Car and Foundry, which also built railroad cars.

[Convicted One]

K. P. Harrier

I got that tidbit from an old trucker I once knew.

 

Man, he must have had QUITE a sense of humor.

[Wizlish]

KFOSTER

The engines in these trucks could not turn backwards as the exhaust would leave the intake and it would suck air thru the muffler. The only engines i have ever seen do such a thing was a 2 stroke diesel such as the old Detroits. Sadly, they ran almost as good backwards as they did forwards.

But a Detroit is like an early 567 in that it uses a positive-displacement Roots blower for scavenge.  So the exhaust-valve timing is such that the Roots sucks air back out the scavenge ports to get enough charge air to keep the engine rotating?

---

 

[ruderunner]

Wizlish

 

 

KFOSTER

The engines in these trucks could not turn backwards as the exhaust would leave the intake and it would suck air thru the muffler. The only engines i have ever seen do such a thing was a 2 stroke diesel such as the old Detroits. Sadly, they ran almost as good backwards as they did forwards.

 

 

But a Detroit is like an early 567 in that it uses a positive-displacement Roots blower for scavenge.  So the exhaust-valve timing is such that the Roots sucks air back out the scavenge ports to get enough charge air to keep the engine rotating?

---

 

 

Yes but the direction of rotation is not a determining factor of intake vs exhaust timing. That's part of the 2 strooke nature.

[samfp1943]

chutton01

 

 

NorthWest

Brandt builds those railroad trucks, but I don't know what engine they use.

 

 

I indirectly asked this question last year in a different thread, and the answer is Brandt will convert whichever heavy duty truck the customer requests (with some restrictions of course)

 

 

Brandt is a custom truck builder,  They build to what the customer specs for their truck need ( Cost is always a factor in the final product).  Of Course they probably have 'their favorite builder'.. Since they are a Canadian Company, and most of the Brandt trucks seem to have the Canadian-built Western Star in their 'genes'

Here is a montage of their railroad-specific units @ https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=AwrTceGoYN5V3dMAWE0nnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByNWU4cGh1BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw--?p=Brandt+Railroad+Trucks&fr=yhs-mozilla-003&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-003

Here is a link to a YouTube video of a Brant Truck moving a train of various MOW equipment @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvblEuLPmUQ

If curious, I recall seeing a Brandt Truck at work on an NS job down South with a string of cars.

Around here they seems to be a favorite for BNSF for various jobs.

 

[groomer man]

Wizlish you are correct but just to add a point the exhaust valves were left open on Detroit 2-strokes while the liner ports were uncovered to aid in combustion chamber scavenging. When they closed the exhaust ports before the piston went past the ports going back up to TDC they then became supercharged

[rvos1979]

Reverser box installed behind the main transmission, can then go just as fast in reverse..........

Last I heard, Western Star, owned by Freightliner, now builds their trucks in North Carolina. Peterbilt, a Paccar brand, is the other one I have seen Brandt use. Cummins seems to be the favorite engine used in either..........

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The engine is just one part.  I would like to know who builds the clutch and transmission for these vehicles, they probably get abused a lot worse than the engine.

[Paul of Covington]

   I'm curious: is traction supplied by the rubber tires on the rails or through steel wheels?

[466lex]

Paul of Covington

   I'm curious: is traction supplied by the rubber tires on the rails or through steel wheels?

 

Through the tires.  Descriptive video:  https://player.vimeo.com/video/75325768

[rvos1979]

I believe Allison supplies the automatic transmissions for the Brandt trucks..........

[tree68]

Paul of Covington

   I'm curious: is traction supplied by the rubber tires on the rails or through steel wheels?

Although I did recently see a picture of a "current" truck on which the rubber tires/wheels had been replaced by flanged wheels.

[Paul of Covington]

   Seems to me it would be handy as a locomotive for short lines that don't handle very many cars at a time.   At the end of the line, just uncouple and drive around for the trip back.

[466lex]

Here is a history of the Brandt Unit:

 

The 'road-railer' 
While all this restructuring was going on, opportunity struck in the form of innovation in 1991.

 

"Rail line abandonment was happening in Saskatchewan," Gavin recalls. "Grain transport was switching to highway systems, which was a growing concern to the provincial government. The question was, 'What can be done to keep grain hauling on rail and save the deteriorating road system?' The government wanted to facilitate the development of shortline rail companies, but you couldn't have a locomotive on every branch line."

 

The Department of Highways came up with the idea of taking a semi-tractor and putting retractable rail running gear on it, so that it could run on both the road system and the rail system. The modified highway tractor could pull 15 100-ton grain cars. So if you had two towns 100 miles apart, the Road Railer (also known as the Brandt Power Unit) could move from one branch line to another on the road system and then go onto track, hook onto the train cars and pull them down the tracks to the next town.

 

The government tendered the building of a prototype and Brandt was the successful bidder. "They knew of our custom machining and manufacturing division and came to us," Gavin says. "We had been successful in the past in building specialized equipment, so we were given the opportunity to manufacture this unique locomotive. We started working with the Department of Highways on the project."

 

As Brandt began to build the prototype, Jim thought there might be more commercial potential than just the provincial government project, so Gavin went to the government and negotiated the manufacturing and marketing rights in a partnership with the government. They formed a new company (Brandt Road Rail Corporation), and the Brandt Power Unit was born. The first one was sold to Canadian National Railroad (CNR).

 

Brandt bought the patents from the government, and has now developed a full line of rail maintenance equipment for shortline rail companies, Class 1 railways and transit systems in major American cities. "All of the Class 1 railways have Brandt Power Units now," Gavin says.

 

Export sales comprise most of the company's revenues, but it was the idea Brandt nurtured for 10 years before it really caught on, that really excites Gavin. Faith in the idea's potential was necessary long before it was accepted in the market place. "We kept after it and kept after it," Gavin says. "And our specialization approach really paid off. The Brandt Power Unit is a unique product in the world, with a long sales cycle, and the people in that division are completely dedicated to it. Now we sell it across North America, and in Australia, Venezuela, and Mexico."

 

Source:  http://www.prairiepolicycentre.com/index.php/component/k2/itemlist/tag/Gavin%20Semple

 

[M636C]

Paul of Covington wrote the following post an hour ago:

   Seems to me it would be handy as a locomotive for short lines that don't handle very many cars at a time.   At the end of the line, just uncouple and drive around for the trip back.

One was purchased by V/line Freight in Victoria, Australia just before privatisation. It was used on some tracks that had been damaged (by floods?) and could not be quickly returned to a standard acceptable for locomotives but on which some traffic was waiting (I think grain) and this unit took four to five grain hoppers at a time. This was on 5'3" gauge (1600mm).

It was a nicely finished vehicle, later in the Freight Australia dark green colours. It was later sold to a track maintenance organisation.

And to address the thread title, this one was a "Western Star".

M636C

 

[switch7frg]

KFOSTER ,that is wierd to see the old 2 stroker Detroit run reversed and watch the exaust smoke come out the  intake air filter, also all those reverse gears  in the tranny and one forwared gear.

[Wizlish]

groomer man

Wizlish you are correct but just to add a point the exhaust valves were left open on Detroit 2-strokes while the liner ports were uncovered to aid in combustion chamber scavenging. When they closed the exhaust ports before the piston went past the ports going back up to TDC they then became supercharged

I am still wondering, though:

Does the water pump circulate coolant properly running in reverse?

Is not the oil pump a positive-displacement gear type with gravity return to the sump?  So not much oil supply in the galleries, and perhaps some places where excessive back-pressure would build up hydraulically ... for a few seconds?

I guess if the fuel transfer pump is mechanical and works off a cam it would pump positive pressure whichever way the engine turns.

What are the 'handed' parts other than the cams and the water pump that are changed out when building a reverse-direction marine Detroit?  I heard a rumor that some applications involved turning the block around with the accessory-drive end modified to fit the bell housing and vice versa -- any truth to it?

[Eddystone]

2 strokes will run in reverse and I have seen a Mack do it but they dont run very well, you won't get any power out of it, they spit and sputter. Strange seeing smoke come from the air filter.