How long did it take to empty a carload of grain?

[NDG]

I understand that one reason Briquettes went out was that the local mines that had the wheels shut down and no more were available at a reasonable cost.

Coal-burning Cabeese started to disappear around the same time, and those left were converted to burn Diesel in pot burners and could be fueled at the locomotive fuel stands

The Company used to deliver it's own Bs, but as roads improved, Dealers were contracted to bring oil to those facilities that required it.  Locomotives are now often fueled by contract.

I liked the Bs as a fuel, other than the handling, and that the fire eventually went out on cold nights. Oil stayed lit all the time, and provided even heat.

CP had a whole series of box car in the 9xxxx series with roof hatches as on covered hoppers and normal sliding side doors to transport bulk lime??

Thank You.

 

[tomikawaTT]

cefinkjr

 

[ snip ]

Were "crushed rock, ores, coal, sand and gravel" ever normally shipped in box cars?    

Apparently the megatons of cement used in construction of Hoover Dam were delivered in bulk, in box cars.  All of it was delivered to Himix (the concrete plant above the dam, about where the rear of the parking garage is now.)  A considerable amount was sent on to Lomix (the mixing plant in the canyon upstream of the dam, now submerged) by being blown through a pipe by compressed air.

Chuck

Las Vegas, NV

[cacole]

In the 1950s a local coal mine in southern Illinois made coal briquettes by compressing coal dust mixed with a small amount of diesel fuel. After burning, there was nothing left but a very small amount of ash to dispose of.

 

[cefinkjr]

NDG,

Your mention of "on the Divide" went right over my head.  Is "Divide" a nickname I've never heard for some railroad?

I otherwise enjoyed reading your post.  Coal made into briquettes would have to be shipped in box cars to keep the briquettes dry.  Hadn't thought of coal briquettes.  I wonder what the binder was.

Reading about coal briquettes though took me back to diners and business cars in the early '70s.  The kitchens used what looked exactly like charcoal briquettes but the smell of the smoke gave them away.

[NDG]

Back in the day, on the Divide, Briquettes were manufactured at coal mines from coal dust using Briquette Wheels, was still used as fuel to heat and cook in Company Dwellings, Bunkhouses, Cabeese, and the Locomotive Foreman's office.

Briquettes.

http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v7/580723769/Low_Sulfur_Coal_Briquette.jpg

At the mine, two large Briquette Wheels revolved touching each other, each with egg shape cups on their respective faces, powdered coal and a binder introduced between the wheels and filling the cups then compressed.

Similar Modern Briquette Wheels.

http://virtualweberbullet.com/kingsfordreport_photos/kingsford9.jpg

The briquettes then were shipped, often in low-ranking Company boxes.

They would break up if rained on, so they had to be kept dry.

The Bs were sloped up in each end to almost the roof in the car, to keep the weight over the wheels and leaving a alley across the car floor door to door to get in with a wheelbarrow when the car was at a loading ramp.

I wheeled tons of Briquettes to Dwellings one fall. Dust and Dirt and sweat.

 They were best handled with a close-tined fork, which lifted the fuel, and left the dust behind.  The dust would burn and was then shovelled.

Briquettes were unloaded by Section Forces into a shed for access by Train Crews for Cabeese, and for plows etc. and for Business Cars still having coal ranges.

Briquettes were an ideal fuel, not much smoke, leaving just a powdery grey ash.

On Cabeese, Bs were stored under the bunk on the stove side wall. A folding Bench in day time, a fold down bed at night.

The two Trainmens' matressess stored on top of Conductor's mattress and covered with canvas when the caboose was in use for Service.

The bunk end of a Caboose was kept clean, as thats where one lived when off duty.  That end door was NOT to be used to keep floor clean when spotted for the night, and was usually locked.

God help a Calling Clerk if he forgot and came in that way, esp. if he had dirty feet. esp. the gooey grease from Traction Motor gearing.

The best trip on a Caboose was going home Deadhead ahead of the Road Caboose, snoozing in the bunk with just the glow of the stove and the motion of the train, and the SLACK. All jointed rail below could determine the speed.

One game was to try and guess the location by curves, bridges and siding switches, eyes closed half-asleep in the bunk.

Water hissing on the stove as the kettle slopped over on the curves and against the slack,

Years ago,

Thank You.

[SealBook27]

Had the "pleasure" back in the late sixties to briefly help unload a boxcar of 96# burlap bags of Canadian triple re-cleaned oats. And in the summertime to boot. I say briefly because I was filling in during the absence of some other poor schnook. As I recall, they had started unloading the day before. But I don't think they worked at it steady, just as they had time from other duties. The trick was to split the load between two floors of a 2-story warehouse. Cars were spotted along a siding that gradually raised up from one end the building to the other. This car was placed so that the upper part of the doorway was at the upper story while the lower part of the doorway served the ground floor. A short electric conveyor was aimed out the doorway: set upward at first for the second story, then later downward for the first story. Two men worked inside the car and at least two worked out on the warehouse floor where it had to be handtrucked into place. When I got involved, I was helping with about the last quarter of the load. An old guy about triple my age was working with me inside. Everytime we finished moving out a layer of bags, he would wipe his brow and say, "There goes another hundred miles."

[cefinkjr]

AgentKid

cefinkjr 

Were "crushed rock, ores, coal, sand and gravel" ever normally shipped in box cars?

 

All of the coal that went past us in Irricana, AB from the Atlas Coal Mine at East Coulee was shipped in boxcars. There were interior "coal doors" made of lumber as opposed to the "grain doors" made of double layered corrugated cardboard.

And yes, shaker machines were used for unloading at some locations, although I did read on a Canadian RR forum once about an individual who had a summer job in the sixties working on a crew who hand bombed coal out of cars.

Bruce

OK, that's my quota of new things to be learned today.  I'm off to bed as soon as I reply to your post.

I was probably 10 years old before I realized that box cars were not special equipment.  99% of the cars passing through my home town were hoppers en route to and from coal mines in the area.  So I hope you'll pardon my ignorance in thinking coal always moved in hoppers or, very occasionally, a gondola or two.  Give me another 70+ years on this earth and I may learn not to even think words like "always".

[AgentKid]

cefinkjr

Did precious metal ores ever move very far?

 

 

 

I can tell you about one situation that believe me, very few people knew about at the time.

 

The Cominco lead/zinc mine in Trail, BC also produced a laundry list of other minerals in trace amounts, one of which was gold. And if you keep producing trace amounts, eventually you get a pile, and eventually that pile grows into a boxcar load. And before Canada went off of the "gold standard" mines could only sell their production to the Royal Canadian Mint in Ottawa, ON.

 

So, when the time came, a call was placed to the Yardmaster in Penticton, BC for a empty express fruit refer without ice to be sent to Trail. This car was loaded with the gold and placed in with the other head end traffic on the EB passenger train. Once that train was east of Trail all anybody would ever think was there goes another carload of delicious BC fruit. This car was switched into the EB Montreal section of "The Dominion" at Medicine Hat, AB and taken to Ottawa. A total trip of several thousand miles. And no load was ever robbed.

 

Bruce

 

[AgentKid]

cefinkjr

 

 

Were "crushed rock, ores, coal, sand and gravel" ever normally shipped in box cars?

All of the coal that went past us in Irricana, AB from the Atlas Coal Mine at East Coulee was shipped in boxcars. There were interior "coal doors" made of lumber as opposed to the "grain doors" made of double layered corrugated cardboard.

And yes, shaker machines were used for unloading at some locations, although I did read on a Canadian RR forum once about an individual who had a summer job in the sixties working on a crew who hand bombed coal out of cars.

Bruce

 

[cefinkjr]

NorthWest

 

cefinkjr

Were "crushed rock, ores, coal, sand and gravel" ever normally shipped in box cars?

 

 

Not usually. Bulk material typically went in hoppers if it could get wet, and boxcars if it couldn't. Some sand may have been shipped by boxcar to avoid it getting damp, but it was likely bagged. Of course precious metal ore mostly traveled by boxcar.

Born and raised in the Rust Belt, I hear "ores" and subconciously prefix it with "iron".  I know precious metal ores moved in box cars in the late 19th Century; it just isn't part of my experience.

 

Did precious metal ores ever move very far?  I've always understood the mills and smelters to be pretty close to the mines. 

[CShaveRR]

Took me about five seconds once...

Of course, the car wasn't supposed to be grabbed in the retarder and hit by the load behind it, but I buried the switch just outside the retarder.

Wasn't a clean job of unloading, but those 40-footers held a whole heap of corn!

[NorthWest]

cefinkjr

Were "crushed rock, ores, coal, sand and gravel" ever normally shipped in box cars?

Not usually. Bulk material typically went in hoppers if it could get wet, and boxcars if it couldn't. Some sand may have been shipped by boxcar to avoid it getting damp, but it was likely bagged. Of course precious metal ore mostly traveled by boxcar.

[BaltACD]

jeffhergert

cacole

Some of the larger, busier grain elevators had a contraption that tipped a grain boxcar sideways and then raised one end and then the other, to empty the grain.

This probably required less than 5 minutes to empty a car.

https://www.nfb.ca/film/grain_handling_in_canada

About 19 minutes in it shows a box car being unloaded at a terminal elevator.  States it takes about 7 minutes to unload.

Jeff 

 

Interesting!  I must say the Canadian Film Board put together some high quality 'slice of life' films detailing Canada and it's rail based operations of the 40's.

With all the sampleing and grading that takes place, according to the film, the must have been a number of Bernine Madoff types in the Canadian grain 'pipeline'.

[cefinkjr]

jeffhergert

 

cacole

Some of the larger, busier grain elevators had a contraption that tipped a grain boxcar sideways and then raised one end and then the other, to empty the grain.

This probably required less than 5 minutes to empty a car.

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.nfb.ca/film/grain_handling_in_canada

About 19 minutes in it shows a box car being unloaded at a terminal elevator.  States it takes about 7 minutes to unload.

Jeff 

 

That is a fascinating video, Jeff; thanks.  Couldn't help noticing all the people involved.  Canada's (and probably the USA's) law concerning grain shipments appear to be a Full Employment Act.

[cefinkjr]

wanswheel

Western Grain Journal, April 21, 1921

OTTUMWA BOX CAR UNLOADER

Device Reduces Labor and Saves Time -  Loads As Well As Unloads

.

.

.

Haven't had time to read your entire post, wanswheel, but two things have already surprised me.  1) This contraption was intended to be used both for unloading and loading and, 2) It was advertised as handling any kind of "loose bulk material".  Were "crushed rock, ores, coal, sand and gravel" ever normally shipped in box cars?    

[chutton01]

I wonder what effect such shaking and rotation such grain unloaders would have on truss-rod wood-underframe boxcars, which weren't excluded fron interchange service till the 1930s. Where such cars excluded from use in these unloaders (sort of the 1920s equivalent of "Do Not Hump"...although there were hump yards in the 1920s as well), or did they just have to tighten everything up after the car was unloaded?

[jeffhergert]

cacole

Some of the larger, busier grain elevators had a contraption that tipped a grain boxcar sideways and then raised one end and then the other, to empty the grain.

This probably required less than 5 minutes to empty a car.

 

 

https://www.nfb.ca/film/grain_handling_in_canada

About 19 minutes in it shows a box car being unloaded at a terminal elevator.  States it takes about 7 minutes to unload.

Jeff 

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The box car unloader shown above looks similar to what I saw (from a poor angle outside the fence) at a grain elevator in Thunder Bay ON in 1976.  If my memory serves me right, it took about 5-10 minutes to empty the car.

[wanswheel]

Western Grain Journal, April 21, 1921

OTTUMWA BOX CAR UNLOADER

Device Reduces Labor and Saves Time -  Loads As Well As Unloads

Present-day methods requires the installation of labor saving machinery, and success will be met by those only who are prepared to eliminate unnecessary cost, and to increase production and be able to operate their plants under the most favorable circumstances.

Usually nine men are required to unload box cars at large elevators, terminals and transfer plants. In order to unload many cars per hour or day, it is necessary to have a number of unloading pits, also a great amount of tools and equipment. This requires an extensive track arrangement, considerable yard room for such tracks and extensive buildings to cover these unloading pits. At every large unloading plant delays have many times been occasioned by failure to secure enough labor to unload cars within the allotted “free time.” This results in serious handicap to railroad management, to the public who needs the cars, and is a direct financial loss through the payment of demurrage to the owners of the plant. With a multiplicity of unloading pits, a complicated conveyor system is necessitated. Such system is extremely expensive and costs money to maintain and operate. At docks, terminals, storage yards and other points, it is often desirable to load box cars as well as unload. The Ottumwa Unloader which is manufactured by the Ottumwa Box Car Loader Co. at Ottumwa, Iowa, solves these problems satisfactorily and is also a loader, and will load cars even more rapidly than it will unload, without any change to machine. In loading cars the end tip removes the inside grain door or boards, holds them out of the place when the car is being unloaded, and drops them inside the car after the unloading has been accomplished.

The Ottumwa Unloader is mounted on a foundation set in a pit approximately 19 feet deep from the top of the rail, 72 feet long and 17 feet between the walls. The foundation proper requires approximately 275 yards of concrete and a hopper bin which is usually built at one side for receiving the material from the car, requires about 60 yards of concrete. If the Unloader is installed on level ground there will be close to 850 yards of excavation.

The main part of the Ottumwa Unloader consists of a steel cradle, approximately 70 feet long and 15 feet wide, constructed of steel plates, angles and beams. The side wings or rockers are made from reinforced steel plates and carry around their circle a heavy railroad steel rail, which acts as a track to permit the cradle to be tipped on end. The cradle is carried on 8 large steel rollers, which are mounted on double beam girders, resting on the foundation in the bottom of the pit.

Tipping to the side is accomplished by means of a deck located on top of the cradle proper, hinged on one side and lifted on the opposite side by means of pin racks operating by power driven sprockets. On this deck are located the railroad rails which make a continuation of the track.

The car is mechanically centered on the Unloader and is held in position by means of what we term “grabbers.” When not in use, these grabbers disappear in small pits at each end of the foundation. When the car has been run on the Unloader, these grabbers, by means of a sprocket and pin racks, are raised out of the pits, travel simultaneously toward each other until they reach and center the car on the Unloader. Steel dogs dropping into notched bars on the tilting deck prevent these grabbers from running back until ready to remove the car, at which time, the dogs are mechanically raised by means of wedges and the grabbers are removed from the car and lowered into the grabber pits. The grabbers are constructed with a head that fits over the coupling, acting as a safety to prevent the car from overbalancing.

The cradle is tipped to either end by means of our specially forged chains. One of such chains is located on each wing circle of the cradle. Power for the cradle to either end is supplied by motor of 75 horse-power. In order to tip the car to the side, a motor of 50 horse-power is used, and to operate the grabbers, we furnish a motor of 20 horse-power. The size of these motors may be varied somewhat to meet certain conditions. The chute, car door opener and brakes are by compressed air. Where compressed air is not available, at the Unloader station, we supply a small air compresser, driven by about a 5 horse-power motor, and we supply a small storage tank for air.

For unloading cars that regularly are fitted with grain doors or boards across the inside of the car door opening, we can supply the Ottumwa Unloader equipped with a car door opener. This mechanism consists of a large square plate studded with barbs which, when the car in a horizontal position, is moved by air against the grain door or boards. A wedge is also dropped to the floor of the car and is forced under the bottom of the door or the bottom board. This assists in removing the bottom board and in holding the entire door up out of the way after has been removed. The tipping of the car to the side while holding of the grain or boards to their original position, removes such door or boards from the opening and out of the way so that the material to be unloaded can easily pass out the car door.

The Unloader is equipped with a stationary chute which is attached to one side wing. Inside of this chute a movable chute is telescoped. This movable chute is operated by a small air cylinder which propels the chute against the side of the car at the doorway and below the floor while the car is in its horizontal position. As the car is tilted to the side, the chute is forced back against the air in the cylinder holding the chute firmly against the car. The material which is being unloaded runs over the movable chute into the stationary chute and from there into the hopper at the side of the Unloader.

The Ottumwa Unloader is equipped with signals, usually electric, which shows the operator the different positions of travel in end and side tip.

Heavy posts are provided, hinged at the bottom and mechanically operated from the operator's station, which are swung into position under the ends of the cradle, when the cradle is in its horizontal position at rest. This makes it impossible to tip the cradle and allows heavy cars or locomotives to be moved across the Unloader without danger.

Both the side and end tips are accomplished by means of gear reduction to worm gear drives, which by reason of their construction automatically lock the cradle and tilting deck in position whenever the power is shut off. In addition to this arrangement, both the motor used for tipping to the end and the motor for tilting to the side are supplied with air brakes which quickly stop the momentum or spinning of the motors when the current is shut off.

The operator's station is located outside the foundation on the ground level and on the same side of the car from which the material is removed, permitting operator to see at all times the process and progress of unloading. Air and electric controllers are conveniently located within the operator's reach.

While the Ottumwa Unloader stands in the horizontal position, a loaded car is run onto the cradle deck. The grabbers are then mechanically raised, catch, center and hold the car rigidly in place and the chute is moved by means of air against the car, as is also the car door opener against the grain door. The operator starts the motor, which tilts the deck, and tips the car to the side to an angle of from 15 to 24 degrees. As the car tips to the side, the grain door or boards are removed, permitting an opening under the same, through which the material to be unloaded can flow. While the Unloader deck is being tipped to the side, the operator starts the motor which tips the cradle to one end and at the same time removes the supporting posts. The material in the center of the car immediately flows out on the Unloader chute and down into the hopper located in the foundation at the side of the Unloader, and as the tipping continues to one end, the material in the high end of the car also flows out. It can be readily seen that the end tip gives the material the momentum and the side tip directs the flow, so that it is carried to the side door out through which it flows. The first end will be quickly unloaded, the cradle is then returned through the horizontal, and tipped to the opposite end. This unloads practically all the material in the second end, except a small portion which will have run past the car door and the third tip removes this last material. The cradle and the tilting deck are then returned to the horizontal, the supporting posts swung under the cradle ends, the chute and the car door opener removed, the grabbers released from the car, and the car is run off the Unloader, giving place to another loaded car. It should be noted here that in removing the car door opener, the boards which have been held up by the door opener are dropped back into the car and not carried out. The car can be tipped on end to a maximum of about 46 degrees.

The car can be unloaded in from five to nine minutes times, depending on the facilities at the plant for moving cars onto and off the Unloader.

The Ottumwa Unloader will unload grain, crushed rock, ores, coal, sand and gravel, and in fact, any loose bulk material that will run by gravity when the Unloader is tipped to the end and side.

[NDG]

Off Topic?

Coal and Briquettes were loaded at some tipples as shown here.

http://www.maltwood.uvic.ca/cura/spalding/industry/017.html

http://www.maltwood.uvic.ca/spalding/images/industry/0023.jpg

Some old box cars had small sliding doors in the car ends into which curved chutes could be inserted for loading coal to keep weight over trucks.

Thank You.

[cefinkjr]

NDG

Unloading Box Car 1924.

http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/structures/index_view.cfm?photoid=-117070786&id=39

 

Thank You.

No, thank YOU.

I would never have guessed this would have been used as early as 1924.  That picture kind of says I was completely wrong on that score.

I don't think I'll try to model that ... at least not an operating model.  Maybe a longer-longer-than-really-necessary unloading shed alongside the elevator.

[NDG]

Unloading Box Car 1924.

http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/structures/index_view.cfm?photoid=-117070786&id=39

 

Thank You.

[cefinkjr]

cacole

Some of the larger, busier grain elevators had a contraption that tipped a grain boxcar sideways and then raised one end and then the other, to empty the grain.

This probably required less than 5 minutes to empty a car.

 

There were mentions of things like that in the link chutton01 provided.  Any idea when those would have been used?  I'm stuck in 1943.  Would shakers have been used then?  I'm pretty sure rotating the whole box car would not have been used that early but I suppose it's possible.

[cefinkjr]

chutton01

From this thread of a few years back

"A good crew could do a boxcar in about a 1/2 hr. depending how hot it was and the type of grain, but at the end they still had to finish with a good old broom and shovel."

 

Thanks for the link.  I must not hold my mouth right or something but I've never been able to get the search function to work very well.  Maybe I ought to try again.

Some good info at that link.  The idea of one rail being higher than the other had not occurred to me.  That would sure make an interesting detail.  I'm guessing that a two-track unloading bay like I'm planning for a free lanced export elevator would be set up to unload to the outside --- not between the two tracks --- so the rails nearest each other would be elevated.  It will be an eye-catcher when the cars on the two tracks are leaning away from each other. 

[cacole]

Some of the larger, busier grain elevators had a contraption that tipped a grain boxcar sideways and then raised one end and then the other, to empty the grain.

This probably required less than 5 minutes to empty a car.

 

[chutton01]

From this thread of a few years back

"A good crew could do a boxcar in about a 1/2 hr. depending how hot it was and the type of grain, but at the end they still had to finish with a good old broom and shovel."

[cefinkjr]

Back in the bad old days (before grain moved in covered hoppers), unloading a box car of unbagged grain involved:

1. Opening a side door.
2. Removing the grain door (probably in stages until the grain quit spilling out).
3. Entering the car with brooms, shovels, wheel barrows (?), and grain "pushers" (think oversized squeegees) to manually remove whatever grain was still in the car.

My question is, "How long did this normally take assuming a typical 40' boxcar and the optimum number of laborers?".