Another Death at a Grade Crossing

[DSchmitt]

Railroad-Highway Grade Crossing Handbook - Revised Second Edition August 2007

Section 4: Identification of Alternatives

 https://www.fra.dot.gov/Elib/Details/L02829

 

 

[blue streak 1]

Just saw partial clip of SUV & Freight in Ohio.  Anyone with more info ?

[blue streak 1]

Former Mrs. America killed at crossing in Waverly Tn. Friday 20th.  This is the CSX - NC&SL Memphis - Nashville line about 40 miles west of Nashville.

 

http://www.jrn.com/newschannel5/news/Train-Collides-With-Car-in-Humphreys-County-297062561.html

 

 

[Diesel Power]

I'm sure there were multiple factors involved in this incident, and my guess would be young inexperienced driver,  multiple in car distractions (smart phone or conversation or bet to beat train as a game), unfamiliar with road and frequency of rail traffic, and/or to impatient to wait 2-3 minutes for the train to pass. 

People can't even stop at stop sign so you think they want to wait for a train. There are reasons there are stop signs and there are reasons there are crossing signals. There not put there for looks!

[blue streak 1]

samfp1943

Here's Another Incident.. Atlanta Area on Tuesday(2/14/2015):

 See Linked @ http://www.11alive.com/story/news/local/buckhead/2015/03/18/personal-trainer-hit-by-freight-train-was-making-you-tube-video/24987189/

FTA:[snip]"...Travis Williams, who had changed his name to Achilles Williams, was a personal trainer who often videotaped outdoor workouts for his YouTube channel. Investigators say Williams and a friend were shooting a video near the train tracks over Roxboro Road near East Paces Ferry at the time of the accident. Williams was jumping rope while the friend shot video.

Investigators say Williams was not on the tracks, but was close enough to them [ apparently, he was using a jump rope?] to be struck as the freight train went by. They say he apparently misjudged the width of the train in relation to the size of the tracks. His friend was not injured but he was knocked down a hill by the impact.."[snip]

IRRC: Was there not a similar incident out in California, a while back?

 

 

 

One picture made it seem that it was a welded rail train.

[samfp1943]

Here's Another Incident.. Atlanta Area on Tuesday(2/14/2015):

 See Linked @ http://www.11alive.com/story/news/local/buckhead/2015/03/18/personal-trainer-hit-by-freight-train-was-making-you-tube-video/24987189/

FTA:[snip]"...Travis Williams, who had changed his name to Achilles Williams, was a personal trainer who often videotaped outdoor workouts for his YouTube channel. Investigators say Williams and a friend were shooting a video near the train tracks over Roxboro Road near East Paces Ferry at the time of the accident. Williams was jumping rope while the friend shot video.

Investigators say Williams was not on the tracks, but was close enough to them [ apparently, he was using a jump rope?] to be struck as the freight train went by. They say he apparently misjudged the width of the train in relation to the size of the tracks. His friend was not injured but he was knocked down a hill by the impact.."[snip]

IRRC: Was there not a similar incident out in California, a while back?

 

[Deggesty]

BaltACD

 

Phoebe Vet

Ideas #1 & #2 were sarcasm.  As for #3, here in Charlotte they created at least 6 new crossings when they built the light rail Blue Line and are creating more now as they extend it.  They have had several collisions at those new crossings.

 

 

For whatever the reason, local authorities, don't consider 'light rail' to be a railroad and seem to think that the light rail vehicles and automotive vehicles can share the same pieces of the world without causing accidents when they try to occupy the same space at the same time.

 

Balt, there is concern in Salt Lake City. I am thankful that there are now very few incidents of trespassing on TRAX tracks (which, in large part, except downtown, use the same right of way used by the Salt Lake Line's route to Provo which is also used for freight service at night). People are much more aware of the danger inherent in trying to beat the train. The lights begin to flash before the gates come down, and continue to flash until the gates are fully up.

However, this year the legislature passed a change in the law concerning how soon you may cross the tracks once a train has passed--it is now legal to start once the gates are high enough for you to cross and it is not necessary to wait until the lights stop flashing. If all of these protected crossings were close to a station, the new situation might not be really bad--but there are several crossings between stations, and it is possible for a train to be coming from the opposite direction after one train has passed, and it is not close enough to have actuated the system before the gates go up.

[Phoebe Vet]

Something like this:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=pop+up+driveway+barrier&qpvt=pop+up+driveway+barrier&qpvt=pop+up+driveway+barrier&FORM=IGRE&id=8398D2EA2981274F21BB6926B68C730902ED58BE&selectedIndex=0#view=detail&id=8398D2EA2981274F21BB6926B68C730902ED58BE&selectedIndex=0 

 

[BaltACD]

Phoebe Vet

Ideas #1 & #2 were sarcasm.  As for #3, here in Charlotte they created at least 6 new crossings when they built the light rail Blue Line and are creating more now as they extend it.  They have had several collisions at those new crossings.

For whatever the reason, local authorities, don't consider 'light rail' to be a railroad and seem to think that the light rail vehicles and automotive vehicles can share the same pieces of the world without causing accidents when they try to occupy the same space at the same time.

[tree68]

Phoebe Vet

Ideas #1 & #2 were sarcasm. 

I think the idea of posts rising out of the road has been tried at a crossing - sarcasm notwithstanding, someone else thought enough of the idea to prototype it.

#1 rings of that "Death" crossing warning sign.

[Phoebe Vet]

Ideas #1 & #2 were sarcasm.  As for #3, here in Charlotte they created at least 6 new crossings when they built the light rail Blue Line and are creating more now as they extend it.  They have had several collisions at those new crossings.

[Deggesty]

Quoting tree68: "

The white line is already there on most crossings.  As for the sign, you'd have to hope the driver isn't busy with their smart phone, so they could actually see it...

Given today's technology, maybe something that would sense the driver's Facebook account and post a picture to it with a caption indicating the stupidity of the driver's actions..."

Larry, I really appreciate your comments--especially the second one. It seems that all too many people do not realize how serious the matter of driving a car is. It is bad enough to be carrying on a conversation with someone riding with you--but another passenger might be able to call your attention to a hazard, whereas someone miles away absolutely cannot.

[tree68]

Phoebe Vet

Idea #1     A white stop line before the grade crossing.  A giant neon sign over the crossing that is surrounded by flashing lights with a big lighted arrow pointing to it that says "Do not stop on the tracks".  Perhaps augmented by a sensor in the crossing that detects the presence of vehicles that are not moving which triggers an alarm and a flashing sign that says "Get off the tracks, dummy".

The white line is already there on most crossings.  As for the sign, you'd have to hope the driver isn't busy with their smart phone, so they could actually see it...

Given today's technology, maybe something that would sense the driver's Facebook account and post a picture to it with a caption indicating the stupidity of the driver's actions...

Idea #2     Replace the current gates with those pop up barriers that the government uses on all their driveways in DC.  They could drop down if someone drives onto them from the track side.

I think this has been tried.  It could be something of a maintenance headache in the northern latitudes, where ice, salt, and sand enter the equation.

Idea #3     Stop creating NEW grade level crossings and begin a 100 year program to gradually eliminate the existing crossings beginning with the ones with the worst accident history.  People are too stupid to allow them to drive across the tracks.  Only grade separation will stop the carnage.

I don't think all that many new crossings are being created.  The only thing really holding back eliminating existing crossings is cold, hard cash, and the resolve to spend same.  It might be interesting to look at the rate of current grade crossing closings/eliminations and project the number forward to see how close it comes to that 100 year mark.

 

[Phoebe Vet]

Idea #1     A white stop line before the grade crossing.  A giant neon sign over the crossing that is surrounded by flashing lights with a big lighted arrow pointing to it that says "Do not stop on the tracks".  Perhaps augmented by a sensor in the crossing that detects the presence of vehicles that are not moving which triggers an alarm and a flashing sign that says "Get off the tracks, dummy".

Idea #2     Replace the current gates with those pop up barriers that the government uses on all their driveways in DC.  They could drop down if someone drives onto them from the track side.

Idea #3     Stop creating NEW grade level crossings and begin a 100 year program to gradually eliminate the existing crossings beginning with the ones with the worst accident history.  People are too stupid to allow them to drive across the tracks.  Only grade separation will stop the carnage.

[tree68]

Fitness guru fouls track, is struck, killed.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/03/19/personal-trainer-killed-train-shooting-youtube-video/25007365/

"Misjudged the width of the train..." 

[ACY Tom]

Have you brought this to the attention of the RR, or G-P, or the Green Bay traffic dept.?

Tom

[rvos1979]

Crossing design also comes into play, especially in older cities. I now run regularly up to a Georgia Pacific mill in Green Bay, and to get to the mill, I run down Ashland Avenue, which parallels the CN-WC main. The crossings here are interlocked with the traffic signals, but the sensors are in the wrong places for semis on Lombardi Ave and the other street I use. So, I wind up crossing the tracks and sitting with my tail hanging out over the railroad tracks just to trip the traffic lights. Not a good situation, but it has to be done. Just have to be extra cautious when I leave the mill........

[Murphy Siding]

     Reminds me of high school driver's ed.  Our teacher had to leave early from our last period class.  He split us up into several groups, and sent us to intersections near the school, telling us to write down the names of people we recognized who ran the stop signs.  You guessed it.  We hadn't been at our appointed corner very long before Mr. Prentice came barreling through the stop sign.   Another group was excited because they saw the principal run the stop sign at their corner.

[BaltACD]

Report of local college girl struck and killed by a vehicle while running with headphones on.

 

Take the headphones off - what you hear may save your life!

[Paul of Covington]

tree68

 

samfp1943

He was wearing earphones when he was struck.

 

 

I recall reading a while back of a deaf beauty queen who was walking on the tracks with her back to the oncoming train.  Predictably, she was struck and killed.

   Something similar happened years ago in nearby Slidell, La.   A man was struck and killed while walking on the tracks.  It turned out he was not only deaf but full of heroin.   The family sued, but I don't know the outcome.

[tree68]

samfp1943

He was wearing earphones when he was struck.

I recall reading a while back of a deaf beauty queen who was walking on the tracks with her back to the oncoming train.  Predictably, she was struck and killed.

[samfp1943]

LensCapOn

So how blind do you have to be to miss a train since it's as big as, well, a train?

 

To answer the above question: here is another way it can be done...Unfortunately

From this linked story from  Post-Tribune of this date 3/18/2015 @ http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/news/ct-ptb-cedar-lake-train-death-st-0318-20150317-story.html

"Boy, 13, walking home from school struck, killed by train in Cedar Lake"

FTA:[snipped] "...Investigators believe Jeffery, was using the tracks as a shortcut home from Hanover Middle School. He was wearing earphones when he was struck.

According to witnesses, the boy was walking north along the side of the tracks with a hooded sweatshirt pulled over his head. The engineer tried to alert the boy by blowing the train's horn, police said..."

 

[tree68]

LensCapOn

So how blind do you have to be to miss a train since it's as big as, well, a train?

Obstructions (buildings, plants, etc) notwithstanding, sometimes the biggest impediment to seeing trains is not looking.

The Kentucky incident involved four young adults - in their early 20's.  I have little doubt that there was conversation going on in the car, to the extent that the driver was not actually driving, but was simply keeping the car "between the lines."  I think most of us have experienced that, whether we want to admit it or not.

The crossing (N 38.19403 W 85.64397)  does not appear to be on a major thoroughfare.  In fact, it doesn't even look like a good shortcut, so we don't know why they were there, unless they lived in the area.

I'm betting they drove over that crossing on a regular basis without seeing trains, so the idea that they might encounter one there may not have occurred to them.

There may have been a cultural issue as well, based on the names of the victims that have been released.

Based on the video, gates might have prevented this incident, as they would have been down well before the car reached the crossing.  This wasn't a case of someone stopping and then driving around the gates/over the crossing.  They just blew right through.

[Norm48327]

Approximately twenty years ago two Michigan State Police troopers were killed when they tried to beat a train to the corssing.

[LensCapOn]

So how blind do you have to be to miss a train since it's as big as, well, a train?

[blue streak 1]

samfp1943

 

jeffhergert

Just thinking out loud here.  

   Maybe more enforcement presence is the key at high activity crossings, where there are multiple incidents of crossing incursions by motorists?  Not sure if higher fines would be a sort of carrot and stick approach?

 

 

Orlando Sun rail enforcemet got very heavy after crashes and close encounters.  Observed 4 police at one crossing that had several almost incidents.  They were writing tickets as fast as they could.  Now have not heard of any.

Another item --  Require all crossing ticketed persons to appear in court.  Judge could call all at once and the word will get out.

 

[BaltACD]

jeffhergert

The first car it took a picture of, after it was in service, was of an Ames police car.

Jeff   

 

Ding Ding Ding - we have a winner!

[jeffhergert]

There are some out there.  Ames, IA had at least one crossing in it's quiet zone (the one that doesn't have lane dividers) equipped with enforcement cameras.  I think it was put in with the automated horn system.  I don't know if they left it when they removed the horn system and went to a regular QZ.  

The first car it took a picture of, after it was in service, was of an Ames police car.

Jeff   

[tree68]

BaltACD

Local authorities are so gung ho about 'Stop Light Cameras' - Why not Railroad Crossing protection cameras?  Especially in locations where cars are KNOWN to stop on tracks for Red Lights ahead.

Just make sure there are hefty fines attached - they'll love the revenue source.  Especially since red light cameras only seem to have an effect on the people they catch.  Otherwise they'd be redundant by now...