Regarding the "Antiquities Act", see this for some facts, and pros and cons:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiquities_Act
Compare with the "Midnight Forests" designations, also by TR, with some help from Gifford Pinchot:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midnight_forests
As always, "Be careful what you wish for . . . " (good advice for both sides !)
- Paul North.
There was a good column by Mary Schmich in today's Trib. I will post the article rather than the link because it is locked to non-subscribers:
Of all the places you might take a visitor to Chicago, my favorite has always been Pullman.
Drive far south on I-94, through scenery too bleak for a tourist brochure, into an impoverished part of Chicago, and just when you start to worry that you might wind up in Indiana, exit.
A few blocks later, there it sits, a village from another place and time, like a stage set for some happy Americana musical.
There's a greenstone church, an old hotel with a wraparound porch, red-brick row homes and a picture-perfect park. Across a big road sits the factory where workers who lived in George Pullman's company town made Pullman railroad cars.
Going to Pullman is like stepping back in time, but part of the charm is that you've also stepped into a living community. That's why I like to take visitors there.
Its tourism efforts have always seemed pleasantly homegrown — like the locally produced Sunday brunch, now defunct, at the old Hotel Florence — and as a visitor, you could feel not just history, but a living struggle and a living pride.
Tourism in Pullman is about to change.
On Friday, the day after President Barack Obama came to town to proclaim Pullman a national monument, I took the familiar drive down to see the new place.
It looked pretty much like the old one, except for the National Park Service ranger manning the desk at the old visitor center.
"Not me," he said when I said I was looking for someone who'd been there for a while.
He'd been on the job since Thursday.
But Jeanne Schulman was sitting in a little office behind the front desk.
"My dad was Big Strong John the Blacksmith," she said. "Twenty five years in the shops."
Four generations of Schulman's family have lived in Pullman. It's that kind of place, where memories are long and roots grow deep.
"If you've only been here 10 years," she said, "whippersnappers."
Schulman cried Thursday as she watched the presidential ceremony on the live stream in the visitor center.
Finally. Pullman would get the recognition it deserved.
Schulman describes it, Pullman has had its ups and downs, but it's the kind of place where neighbors wave at each other, and if your family has trouble, they bring a casserole.
As she was saying this, a ranger appeared.
"I've got a couple here want to pay a fee?"
"Five dollars," Schulman said.
He disappeared and she laughed. "This is all brand new."
Until now, much of the work of trumpeting Pullman to the world has fallen to volunteer residents like Schulman.
Jim Caffrey, who had stopped by to give Schulman his "daily hug," is another.
"Pullman grabbed me like a big hug and said, 'You need to be here,'" said Caffrey, who moved to the neighborhood nine years ago and volunteers as a tour guide.
"My sister lived on the North Side," he said. "It was really snooty, everybody honking."
In Pullman, he said, everybody knows everybody, and everybody contributes.
The heart of residential Pullman is only four blocks by four blocks. There are 2,000 or so residents who, in the job-starved Far South Side, with the Pullman factory long closed, have to travel farther to find work than Schulman's father and grandfather did.
"One of my goofiest childhood memories," Schulman said, leaning back in her chair, "is my mother in her cotton housedress, and she took a quart of beer, and Dad came to the wrought iron fence and she handed it to him through the fence."
As she reminisced, another ranger appeared at the doorway.
"Sorry to interrupt. Are the posters for sale?"
Schulman isn't sure what her role will be in the new Pullman but she's convinced the change is for the good.
"I don't see how it can be bad," she said.
It will, however, be different.
"A lot more people," said Mike Shymanski when I asked him to imagine a summer day in Pullman two years from now.
Shymanski, an architect who led the push for national monument status, remembers riding an old commuter train, the kind with wicker seats, to the neighborhood shortly after he and his wife got engaged in 1967.
They felt they'd stepped into a time warp. They stayed. His children and a granddaughter live there now.
"People in the neighborhood like to fantasize it's like living in a small New England town," he said with a laugh. "That's the good news and the bad news."
In his picture of a summer day two years from now, there will be volunteers meeting visitors at the Metra stop. There will be new restaurants and commercial activities and improvements not only in what's thought of as "historic Pullman" but also in the troubled surrounding areas. Residents will remain a big part of the place.
"It's going to be a destination," he said.
With luck, the destination will preserve not only Pullman's history and its buildings, but the community that worked so hard to make it happen.
mschmich@tribpub.com
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
dakotafred CSSHEGEWISCH trackrat888 The Pullman District is composed of middle income black familys that have been there for generations. Giving this a "National Monument" Status made have the unintened consequesnce of making this a trendy neighborhood and leading to WGLBT yuppie gentrification pricing out the working class black familys for a National Monument that was supposed to celebrate there heritage as the grandsons of Pullman Porters. Are you implying that the employees of Pullman who actually lived in the neighborhood and built the cars have no role in the heritage of Pullman the carbuilder? How any sensible person could read what you did into trackrat's post is hard to understand. Obviously, he is talking about black descendents being "gentrified" out of their homes, and his disapproval is implicit.
CSSHEGEWISCH trackrat888 The Pullman District is composed of middle income black familys that have been there for generations. Giving this a "National Monument" Status made have the unintened consequesnce of making this a trendy neighborhood and leading to WGLBT yuppie gentrification pricing out the working class black familys for a National Monument that was supposed to celebrate there heritage as the grandsons of Pullman Porters. Are you implying that the employees of Pullman who actually lived in the neighborhood and built the cars have no role in the heritage of Pullman the carbuilder?
trackrat888 The Pullman District is composed of middle income black familys that have been there for generations. Giving this a "National Monument" Status made have the unintened consequesnce of making this a trendy neighborhood and leading to WGLBT yuppie gentrification pricing out the working class black familys for a National Monument that was supposed to celebrate there heritage as the grandsons of Pullman Porters.
The Pullman District is composed of middle income black familys that have been there for generations. Giving this a "National Monument" Status made have the unintened consequesnce of making this a trendy neighborhood and leading to WGLBT yuppie gentrification pricing out the working class black familys for a National Monument that was supposed to celebrate there heritage as the grandsons of Pullman Porters.
Are you implying that the employees of Pullman who actually lived in the neighborhood and built the cars have no role in the heritage of Pullman the carbuilder?
How any sensible person could read what you did into trackrat's post is hard to understand. Obviously, he is talking about black descendents being "gentrified" out of their homes, and his disapproval is implicit.
1. Much of what Trackrat posts suggests this is just the latest pseudonym of the troller, previously known as: Polish Falcon, OhioRiver, Trainfinder, etc.
2. The Pullman neighborhood (the historic area) has been on various registers of landmark historic status since 1972.
3 The historic neighborhood has these demographics: 2001 Census date of homebuyers: 75% Caucasian, 19% African-American, 6% Other (Hispanic, Asian, etc.). The historic areas are generally more diverse than the full community area. For example in 2000, Census Tract 5003.00 was 53.5% White and 26.7% African-American, and 36.1% of Hispanic Origin of any race.
Facts are actually useful things and inconvenient for some.
Yeah rents and taxes will go up displacing the black familys that live there in favor of making a trendy neighborhood that white millenials will overrun.. Thats what I am saying. I have been to Pullman and was allowed to camp on the grounds 3 years ago and went to church there. Nice neighbors and very quiet.
Tolerance, Grasshopper, tolerance.
Norm
Uh, DrD, I usually love your steam posts, and other posts too, but you need to slow down and take a deep breath, buddy.
Sit down, put your feet up, have a beer, put a rail DVD in the player and relax a bit, OK?
Speaking as a friend.
Well said. Shame on Dr. D
Dr D Preserving a canyon or a wilderness site from industrial trespass is very different from taking some urban neighborhood which is and has always been personal property and trying to supervise this a National Park. Go Figure! Such was the National Park created in Scranton. All these Park Rangers trained to watch over Grisley bears and deer are very out of place in this historical industrial setting mirroring the Henry Ford Museum. Congress has struggled with the funding cost also and the issue of what government mandate allows them to enter into supervision of such industrial private property settings. The register on National Historic Places is also part of this discussion, which was set up to prevent industrial developers from trampeling on some very historic sights. Always a marvel to me how US Government protects Civil War battlefields which were Union Army victories but have traditionally shunned such sites of battlefield loss and Confederate victory like the Manasses - Bull Run battlefield which is being over run with commercial development. Creating a Pullman Site National Park which seems is about equivalent to National Historic Register sight? brings government supervision over any changes to the existing buildings government, laws police, fire and political services - trash pickup etc. Christian Churches that are historic and in such predicament are often counceled never to allow the Historic Site designation because the congregations can no longer change, modify or operate the structures for updated usage. The Federal Govenment also has huge issues with all religious communities except Muslum which they for some reason seem to feel they must protect. Wouldn't be nice to have them protect New York Grand Central Station, but if it was no longer usable as a train station wouldn't it then become a "monument to the stupidity of man" or government for spending taxpayer money to maintain it! Chicago is already a somewhat lawless town from a Federal Perspective. Think about a city situated in three states, with three governments each over part of it. Multiple municipalites each with its own "local government" jurisdiction, and local "law enforcement" etc. You have your State Law of Illinois, Indiana, and Wisconson. Wide variantions in traffic law, gun ownership, the death penalty etc. plus its all situated on a huge "fresh water sea" supervised by US Coast Guard, Homeland Security, Multiple Sherif Departments and City of Chicago Police. A city so immence it encompasses country "hicks" from Indiana, super sophisticated liberal Chicago, Illinois elete residents, as well as poor, and fresh from the "dairy land" Wisconson radical Republicans - all in one city. What Mayor? I can just see the Feds under Obama "licking their chops" for another District of Columbia. What are you going to do Chicago when President Obama comes home with his library, Secret Service Protection, retirement residence, and National Park? Crown him king? All I can say Chicago is "better get ready for Obama Rex!" The Brits do quite well with it? Just need to learn to say "Yes Your Magisty!" Doc
Preserving a canyon or a wilderness site from industrial trespass is very different from taking some urban neighborhood which is and has always been personal property and trying to supervise this a National Park. Go Figure! Such was the National Park created in Scranton. All these Park Rangers trained to watch over Grisley bears and deer are very out of place in this historical industrial setting mirroring the Henry Ford Museum. Congress has struggled with the funding cost also and the issue of what government mandate allows them to enter into supervision of such industrial private property settings.
The register on National Historic Places is also part of this discussion, which was set up to prevent industrial developers from trampeling on some very historic sights. Always a marvel to me how US Government protects Civil War battlefields which were Union Army victories but have traditionally shunned such sites of battlefield loss and Confederate victory like the Manasses - Bull Run battlefield which is being over run with commercial development.
Creating a Pullman Site National Park which seems is about equivalent to National Historic Register sight? brings government supervision over any changes to the existing buildings government, laws police, fire and political services - trash pickup etc. Christian Churches that are historic and in such predicament are often counceled never to allow the Historic Site designation because the congregations can no longer change, modify or operate the structures for updated usage. The Federal Govenment also has huge issues with all religious communities except Muslum which they for some reason seem to feel they must protect.
Wouldn't be nice to have them protect New York Grand Central Station, but if it was no longer usable as a train station wouldn't it then become a "monument to the stupidity of man" or government for spending taxpayer money to maintain it!
Chicago is already a somewhat lawless town from a Federal Perspective. Think about a city situated in three states, with three governments each over part of it. Multiple municipalites each with its own "local government" jurisdiction, and local "law enforcement" etc. You have your State Law of Illinois, Indiana, and Wisconson. Wide variantions in traffic law, gun ownership, the death penalty etc. plus its all situated on a huge "fresh water sea" supervised by US Coast Guard, Homeland Security, Multiple Sherif Departments and City of Chicago Police.
A city so immence it encompasses country "hicks" from Indiana, super sophisticated liberal Chicago, Illinois elete residents, as well as poor, and fresh from the "dairy land" Wisconson radical Republicans - all in one city.
What Mayor? I can just see the Feds under Obama "licking their chops" for another District of Columbia. What are you going to do Chicago when President Obama comes home with his library, Secret Service Protection, retirement residence, and National Park? Crown him king?
All I can say Chicago is "better get ready for Obama Rex!" The Brits do quite well with it? Just need to learn to say "Yes Your Magisty!"
Doc
From someone that was born and raised in the city, and still lives in the Metropolitian area you have displayed a remakrable lack of understanding and ignorance of the area. And what does this have to do with railroads anyway?
This whole rant is a violation of the third item in the terms of use!
Dr Dll I can say Chicago is "better get ready for Obama Rex!" The Brits do quite well with it? Just need to learn to say "Yes Your Magisty!" Doc
How about taking your nonsensical posts and political hatred elsewhere?
Russell
Paul, I think he is saying that the cost of living in the area may go up.
Johnny
Not to be political but rather interjecting some historical reality, the legal basis for presidential declaration of National Monuments, etc. goes back to an act of Congress in 1906.
Since Theodore Roosevelt created the Antiquities Act, nearly every president has used it to protect well known and lesser-known historical, cultural and natural icons. Some examples include:
http://wilderness.org/article/how-we-designate-monuments#sthash.5Ddz3wLm.dpuf
I hope the area can be both preserved and remain livable. It would be a shame if some land developer tore down what remains for a shopping strip mall, as Mudchicken pointed out occurred with much already.
ADA Regs and railroad stations that have been around for a 100 years dont mix well. Excusion railroads that are non profit have to play catch up with ADA regs but most have been welcome to because of Older disabled riders who are a main custumer base. Now PCC cars in Kenosha and elsewere were a pain in the rear to retrofit for ADA use. Pittsburgh has a number of low platform stations that the T passes by and disbaled have to get a shuttle back to.
"Hard cases make for bad law" - meaning that the extremists present unpalatable choices, for the courts and the public. Also, I'll observe that extreme postions usually don't last too long, and often lead to a strong over-reaction in return.
The demolition of Penn Station in New York City in the mid-1960's led to a lot of historic preservation laws.
The leading case in Pennsylvania - I believe it was captioned as United Artists - involved the proposed demolition of a historic theater. The Philadelphia Historical Commission mandated that the street-side 'elevation' or facade remain "as-is", but the company could gut, renovate, and reconfigure the interior. UA objected to that, but lost at the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, which essentially ruled that the regulation as applied in that case was valid, unless UA could show that it made the property unfit for any use and rendered it worthless - which they didn't.
Exterior elevators and other modern safety improvements often present a clash of competing public interests. As John Kneiling often said, "Let the regulators figure it out !". That happens from time to time, too . . .
Here in Albany New York we have the historic "Stockade District". You can't do anything to your house unless you go thru the historic society who is appointed and not elected. As such the Stockade is for only high end singles and lacks diversity.- The Pullman District is composed of middle income black familys that have been there for generations. Giving this a "National Monument" Status made have the unintened consequesnce of making this a trendy neighborhood and leading to WGLBT yuppie gentrification pricing out the working class black familys for a National Monument that was supposed to celebrate there heritage as the grandsons of Pullman Porters.
Non withstanding the news reports, the government only has the right to take private property by rule of "eminent domain" when the public good is at stake. Acquision of property for public dams, highways and other public purposes had been the only occasion when this has been legally done.
Until, the black mayor of Detroit, Colman Young took a major Polish neighborhood in Detroit for a new General Motors factory citing that the need of jobs outweighed the rights of private property. When this was done in the 1980's if was the first incidence in U.S. History of the goverment using "eminent domain" for private business purposes.
I realize that the Enviornmental Protection Agency has used some high handed siezures of property for is own agenda, but I question if the president has such legal powers that cannot be challenged in court, his redefinition of imigration is a perfect example. Depending upon public outcry the discussion is fraught with serious legal challenge issues.
Worked in the area for the shortline owner of some of the surviving railroad, both Pullman and Rock Island. Shame that most of the commercial/shops buildings have been flattened that would have better explained the "company town". In addition, International Harvester's complex was also nearby and those three made for interesting research.
Paul_D_North_Jr If some people are scared, it's self-inflicted or paranoia, etc. Land that they own outright can't be "taken" or significantly* impaired in value without "just compensation" being paid.
If some people are scared, it's self-inflicted or paranoia, etc. Land that they own outright can't be "taken" or significantly* impaired in value without "just compensation" being paid.
In a given case, the owner's security depends on what the court says. Some impairments to value are not seen as such by the court, so no relief for the owner.
With a building, the owner reserves the right to tear it down, but usually not to modify it in a way that might make it useful -- for instance, in a case in New York City I read about, with addition of an exterior elevator.
Owners of land or buildings are properly wary.
If you read carefully, you'll see that it was only the first part of trackrat888's comment that related to ranches out west, and not the Pullman site.
Back "On Topic" . . . trackrat888 also wrote: "That being said the Pullman District in Chicago has needed help for a long time." I've never been there, so I have no reason to disagree with him - sounds like a worthy idea to me, so we won't be having riots over that point.
MP173The hotel in the district is really a cool building.
Is it named the Florence?
Pullman is an interesting area of Chicago. I have a customer in that area and am there frequently. It needs some work and hopefully that will occur.
Great timing as perhaps this will allow his former CoS Rahm to get over the hump in the mayorial election.
The hotel in the district is really a cool building.
Ed
Funny how no matter what President Obama does, it's always met with "outrage" What would be wonderful if someone started the Pullman company up again.
Say, does this mean there'll be annual Pullman strike and riot re-enactments? On the actual site?
Gee, given Pullman's importance in the history of railroading, I would have thought this would be popular and welcomed, not set off some controversy.
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