I've seen some nice video's of trains plowing through the snow etc. but that was very cool to watch. I'm sure it was very impressive to watch in person. That was a great catch by that railfan.
Trains Northwest
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7z2SF15sZ3pfV_VymvNf9A
I've run trains in a lot of deep snow. I usually go maximum speed mainly because I A) don't want to get stuck
B) Keep the traction motors hot and the blowers blowing full to keep the snow out.
I also blow the horn ALOT so when I actually need it I'll have it and it won't be packed with snow and ice. This is especially true if the snow is coming over the top of the cab.
I did know the territory so as long as I had orders giving me right I owned the railroad. From time to time I can pick out some landmarks and watching the speedometer I can tell where the little hills and sags are giving me additional info on my location.
Does suck when tree branches bust out all the head end lights though.
Randy
Deggesty Right on, Tom and Larry. [edited to provide correct second name] Don't forget about the Aberdeen Testing Ground, near Aberdeen, Maryland.
Don't forget about the Aberdeen Testing Ground, near Aberdeen, Maryland.
- Paul North.
Right on, Tom and Larry. [edited to provide correct second name]
Johnny
Restricted speed may be due to a signal indication, or by established limits.
We operate in our station areas at restricted speed (NORAC Rule 98). This is not only a safety "feature," but allows us to operate without dispatcher permission, as is required on the main.
Replacing "prove" with "test" works nicely if discussing those facilities the auto companies maintain - "proving grounds."
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
"The exception proves the rule" is one of the most misapplied expressions in the English language. It relies on a very old definition of "prove" that is poorly understood nowadays. A proper restatement of the adage would be "the exception TESTS the rule." If the rule does not hold up against the test (or proof), then the rule is invalid.
Tom
What about restricted speed?If I remember correctly, Restricted Speed rules apply only when there is a signal system. Something else might be governing the train here, but it wouldn't be restricted speed, and probably not yard limit rules. He is authorized to travel at his prescribed speed until he encounters a signal (or sign) stating otherwise. This isn't really a case of "caution to the wind". A knowledgeable engineer knows whether the drifts are likely to be clean (not so if they were an avalanche, or if fallen trees were likely on the roadbed--evidently unlikely in this location). There's always some risk of hitting something, even in clear weather, and if you make your entire run prepared to stop within half the range of vision, you'll get nowhere fast.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
PNWRMNM blue streak 1 BaltACD Trains do not operate on immediate line of sight. What about restricted speed? The exception that proves the rule. Mac
blue streak 1 BaltACD Trains do not operate on immediate line of sight. What about restricted speed?
BaltACD Trains do not operate on immediate line of sight.
Trains do not operate on immediate line of sight.
What about restricted speed?
The exception that proves the rule.
Mac
Train that started this thread was not operating under Restricted Speed conditions. Restricted Speed is not the NORMAL operating condition for Main Line railroad operations.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Paul_D_North_Jr About 30 years back in Trains there was a frontispiece photo of a CN SW-something that derailed on a crossing, wandered down the street, and came to a stop in front of somebody's house - all around Christmastime !
Thank you dear for the trains, but it was N-scale that I wanted.
Wow, what a way to get trains for Christmas!
Ken G Price My N-Scale Layout
Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR
N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.
Rember riding in the cab (E8) of the PRR passenger train going from Richmond Indiana to Coumbus Ohio in a fog at over 80mph (we had cab signals) but all that could be seen from inside the cab was the headlight reflecting back from the fog. At least we knew there was no train on the track ahead of us but some idiot on the track would not have been seen. In discusions with engineers, they said the worst thing they had hit was a molasses truck. I thought about whether they meant survived. I had thoughts about a gas tanker but kept my mouth shut. We made the schedule and did not slow down.
Thank you for the good explanations. Running almost blind, at a fair speed with that much power and weight just doesn't really appeal to me. Maybe that is why it is a little scary to me even in a video.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Trains do not operate on immediate line of sight. The operate on signal indication or track authorities (most use track warrents) that give them operational authority on the section of track they are opeating on. Track speed for the territory sets the operational speed limit. The engineer then relies on his knowledge of the physical characteristics of his territory and the situational awareness of where he is in relation to road crossings and signal locations.
Experienced engineers will amaze you in their knowledge of where they are and what the train handling needs of their train are at that particular location and what they have to do to proceed further.
and, it may make the highway department a bit unhappy, too.
Mookie But so far, no one has answered questions by both Murphy and myself - how do you deal with this and what is proper procedure. Anyone want to give us a little more information?
But so far, no one has answered questions by both Murphy and myself - how do you deal with this and what is proper procedure.
Anyone want to give us a little more information?
It is all about knowing one's territory. If you listen to the audio with the video, you'll hear the horn start well back from the crossing - further, probably, than you might on a sunny summer day with clear skies and unlimited visibility.
In fog, you reduce your speed accordingly, just as you would if you were driving a car. You do the same thing in this circumstance, save the need to have your speed up to bust the drifts.
Knowledge of the territory is why you'll find the most senior folks running snowplows and flangers. They need to know the territory like the back of their hand. Hitting one crossing with the blade lowered will ruin your whole day...
CShaveRRAn engneer with less experience would probably take this part of the trip more slowly--and he just might get himself stuck as a result.
Call MOW. Tell them to bring shovels.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
First of all, I'd say that this is a very experienced, confident engineer, who's getting a thrill out of this, and knows what can be done (none of them would throw caution to the wind exactly). He also has a very good sense of situational awareness.You'll notice that even with the snow piling up and blowing back the way it is, that he has, for the most part, some unobstructed portions of the front windows. You may take it from me that you make do with what you have when there's no way to clear away the part of the windows you don't have. He has enough of a feel for his territory to know roughly where he is in relation to the crossing, and--just possibly--the ablity to see his "landmarks" along the route that tell him what he needs to know about sounding for the crossing (if you listen closely, you'll note that he started sounding the horn some distance ahead of it, probably farther in advance than usual, then paused, and finished the signal as he got closer, after the flashers had activated). But I'm sure Jeff will agree: a good engineer knows his line well enough that he could (not that he would) run it without all of it being visible to him--he could literally be feeling his way! An engneer with less experience would probably take this part of the trip more slowly--and he just might get himself stuck as a result.
Just like running in heavy fog. All about knowing the territory.
Several years ago, I was talking with the enginer of VIA's Canadian as we traveled west from Toronto during the winter about just this sort of running. He was a third generation railroader with lots of northern experience and told me that he found himself (and his train!) going across a field after hitting a compacted road crossing some years prior...flanges lifted by sand and ice on a slight curve. It wasn't the Canadian he was running at that time.
Mookie Planes have instruments for night, inclement weather and fog. Since both the windshields were covered in snow and sticking your head out the window to see probably isn't the best idea, when do you stop to clear heavy, wet snow off the windshields - since the wipers may not be able to move a lot of weight.
Planes have instruments for night, inclement weather and fog. Since both the windshields were covered in snow and sticking your head out the window to see probably isn't the best idea, when do you stop to clear heavy, wet snow off the windshields - since the wipers may not be able to move a lot of weight.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy Siding At what point does an engineer have to worry about hydroplaning(?) at a snow and ice covered crossing in conditions like in this video? I've seen crossings where everything is frozen solid. Does the weight of a train negate that?
At what point does an engineer have to worry about hydroplaning(?) at a snow and ice covered crossing in conditions like in this video? I've seen crossings where everything is frozen solid. Does the weight of a train negate that?
Some snow plow video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTiIqUSCVKM
Please note the sequence close to the beginning.
We have instructions when spotting empty cars over snow/ice packed crossings to first run the power through the crossing to cut the flangeways. Some locations have instructions to call a manager first.
I've hit a few drifts like the one in the original video, although most weren't as long. For a while though, visibility was zero.
Jeff
You didn't mention motorcycles taking cover under the overpasses.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Ulrich On a related note, a few years ago I was driving down south when it started to pour. The rain was coming down in sheets, and I soon noticed that I was the only car on the road. Others to the left and right were pulled off to the side. It just depends on what one is comfortable with and used to.
On a related note, a few years ago I was driving down south when it started to pour. The rain was coming down in sheets, and I soon noticed that I was the only car on the road. Others to the left and right were pulled off to the side. It just depends on what one is comfortable with and used to.
Drive I95 from the North to S.Florida frequently. When a 'Florida Frog Drowner' happens - If you pay attention the Northbound lanes will keep moving right along at a reduced speed. The Southbound lanes will have vehicles pulled over to the shoulder by the dozens.
Northbounders have been in Florida for some time and become accustomed to handling such weather, the Southbounders haven't.
The engineer of that train in the video seemed pretty confident... he/she is probably a native maritimer... waist deep snow and sub zero temperatures are all in a day's work. Nothing to get too excited about.
If it's tangent track, just water on it - esp. snow, and not too much ice, run fairly often (say, 8 to 10 times a day) so it flexes and moves even just a little bit to keep it from freezing too tightly together, and the highway dept. is doing its share to keep the crossing free of the big windrows of snow from itself and the railroad - and esp. salting the crossing area so that motorists can stop when they need to, and the brine weakens the ice in the flangeway area - - then no, not a big deal. Start taking away those factors, and the anxiety level increases.
Every derailment I've seen has been on curved track that was filled with some solid (mud, coal dust or dirt, quarry screenings, etc.), and fortunately at low speeds. About 30 years back in Trains there was a frontispiece photo of a CN SW-something that derailed on a crossing, wandered down the street, and came to a stop in front of somebody's house - all around Christmastime !
EDIT TO ADD:
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.