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Dashing through the snow

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Dashing through the snow
Posted by nanaimo73 on Thursday, February 5, 2015 3:02 PM
Dale
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Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, February 5, 2015 3:35 PM

Part of this video (beginning about 37 secs. and ending at 1 min.) was just aired on the Weather Channel.

Jeff 

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Posted by Mookie on Thursday, February 5, 2015 6:03 PM

Jeff:  Approx how fast would they have been going?  Does the engine rock just a little?  If they have that much snow in front of them, is there any way to see anything in front of them or are they just flying blind until they get out of the snow? 

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Posted by zugmann on Thursday, February 5, 2015 6:05 PM

No conductor standing on the nose of that train.  Must have liked the photographer.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Ulrich on Thursday, February 5, 2015 6:38 PM

New Brunswick has really been hit hard this winter... storm after storm. Cool video.. 

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Posted by edblysard on Thursday, February 5, 2015 7:37 PM

And not a wave from anyone....

23 17 46 11

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Posted by Ulrich on Thursday, February 5, 2015 7:46 PM

Maybe this warrants another letter..very rude to go by without so much as a wave. 

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Posted by Benchedthatpiece on Thursday, February 5, 2015 8:45 PM

Great video, I'd love to experience that!

 

Jay

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, February 5, 2015 9:07 PM

Ulrich

Maybe this warrants another letter..very rude to go by without so much as a wave. 

They were probably both waving - you just couldn't see them....

I've never plowed that much snow with a locomotive, but I've run through some pretty intense snow bands that limited visibility to near zero.  One of many reasons to know your territory...

Slowing down is never a bad idea in such conditions, unless you're really confident.  I'd be more afraid of frozen flangeways at crossings than anything else.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, February 5, 2015 10:18 PM

     At what point does an engineer have to worry about hydroplaning(?) at a snow and ice covered crossing in conditions like in this video?  I've seen crossings where everything is frozen solid.  Does the weight of a train negate that?

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Friday, February 6, 2015 4:46 AM

If it's tangent track, just water on it - esp. snow, and not too much ice, run fairly often (say, 8 to 10 times a day) so it flexes and moves even just a little bit to keep it from freezing too tightly together, and the highway dept. is doing its share to keep the crossing free of the big windrows of snow from itself and the railroad - and esp. salting the crossing area so that motorists can stop when they need to, and the brine weakens the ice in the flangeway area - - then no, not a big deal.  Start taking away those factors, and the anxiety level increases.

Every derailment I've seen has been on curved track that was filled with some solid (mud, coal dust or dirt, quarry screenings, etc.), and fortunately at low speeds.  About 30 years back in Trains there was a frontispiece photo of a CN SW-something that derailed on a crossing, wandered down the street, and came to a stop in front of somebody's house - all around Christmastime !

EDIT TO ADD:

"So you wanted an SW1200 for Christmas - switcher derailed, in driveway of house", by Ingles, J. David, from Trains, December 1987, pg. 39 ("Magazine Index" keywords: accident  CNR  frontispiece ) 

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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, February 6, 2015 8:14 AM

The engineer of that train in the video seemed pretty confident... he/she is probably a native maritimer... waist deep snow and sub zero temperatures are all in a day's work. Nothing to get too excited about.

On a related note, a few years ago I was driving down south when it started to pour. The rain was coming down in sheets, and I soon noticed that I was the only car on the road. Others to the left and right were pulled off to the side. It just depends on what one is comfortable with and used to. 

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, February 6, 2015 8:27 AM

Ulrich

 

On a related note, a few years ago I was driving down south when it started to pour. The rain was coming down in sheets, and I soon noticed that I was the only car on the road. Others to the left and right were pulled off to the side. It just depends on what one is comfortable with and used to. 

 

 

Drive I95 from the North to S.Florida frequently.  When a 'Florida Frog Drowner' happens - If you pay attention the Northbound lanes will keep moving right along at a reduced speed.   The Southbound lanes will have vehicles pulled over to the shoulder by the dozens.

Northbounders have been in Florida for some time and become accustomed to handling such weather, the Southbounders haven't.

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Friday, February 6, 2015 9:23 AM

You didn't mention motorcycles taking cover under the overpasses.

Dave

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Posted by Mookie on Friday, February 6, 2015 11:34 AM

Planes have instruments for night, inclement weather and fog.  Since both the windshields were covered in snow and sticking your head out the window to see probably isn't the best idea, when do you stop to clear heavy, wet snow off the windshields - since the wipers may not be able to move a lot of weight.  

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Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, February 6, 2015 8:15 PM

Murphy Siding

     At what point does an engineer have to worry about hydroplaning(?) at a snow and ice covered crossing in conditions like in this video?  I've seen crossings where everything is frozen solid.  Does the weight of a train negate that?

 

Some snow plow video.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTiIqUSCVKM

Please note the sequence close to the beginning.

We have instructions when spotting empty cars over snow/ice packed crossings to first run the power through the crossing to cut the flangeways.  Some locations have instructions to call a manager first.

I've hit a few drifts like the one in the original video, although most weren't as long.  For a while though, visibility was zero.

Jeff

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Friday, February 6, 2015 10:41 PM

Mookie

Planes have instruments for night, inclement weather and fog.  Since both the windshields were covered in snow and sticking your head out the window to see probably isn't the best idea, when do you stop to clear heavy, wet snow off the windshields - since the wipers may not be able to move a lot of weight.  

 

 And how does the engineer know when to blow the horn for a crossing?

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Posted by northeaster on Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:33 PM

Several years ago, I was talking with the enginer of VIA's Canadian as we traveled west from Toronto during the winter about just this sort of running. He was a third generation railroader with lots of northern experience and told me that he found himself (and his train!) going across a field after hitting a compacted road crossing some years prior...flanges lifted by sand and ice on a slight curve. It wasn't the Canadian he was running at that time.

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Posted by Mookie on Saturday, February 7, 2015 6:04 PM

But so far, no one has answered questions by both Murphy and myself - how do you deal with this and what is proper procedure.  

Anyone want to give us a little more information?  

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, February 7, 2015 7:58 PM

Mookie

But so far, no one has answered questions by both Murphy and myself - how do you deal with this and what is proper procedure.  

Anyone want to give us a little more information?  

 

 

Just like running in heavy fog.  All about knowing the territory.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by CShaveRR on Saturday, February 7, 2015 8:10 PM

First of all, I'd say that this is a very experienced, confident engineer, who's getting a thrill out of this, and knows what can be done (none of them would throw caution to the wind exactly).  He also has a very good sense of situational awareness.

You'll notice that even with the snow piling up and blowing back the way it is, that he has, for the most part, some unobstructed portions of the front windows.  You may take it from me that you make do with what you have when there's no way to clear away the part of the windows you don't have.  He has enough of a feel for his territory to know roughly where he is in relation to the crossing, and--just possibly--the ablity to see his "landmarks" along the route that tell him what he needs to know about sounding for the crossing (if you listen closely, you'll note that he started sounding the horn some distance ahead of it, probably farther in advance than usual, then paused, and finished the signal as he got closer, after the flashers had activated).  But I'm sure Jeff will agree:  a good engineer knows his line well enough that he could (not that he would) run it without all of it being visible to him--he could literally be feeling his way!  

An engneer with less experience would probably take this part of the trip more slowly--and he just might get himself stuck as a result.

Carl

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, February 7, 2015 8:13 PM

CShaveRR
An engneer with less experience would probably take this part of the trip more slowly--and he just might get himself stuck as a result.

 

Call MOW.  Tell them to bring shovels.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by tree68 on Saturday, February 7, 2015 9:47 PM

Mookie

But so far, no one has answered questions by both Murphy and myself - how do you deal with this and what is proper procedure.  

Anyone want to give us a little more information?   

It is all about knowing one's territory.  If you listen to the audio with the video, you'll hear the horn start well back from the crossing - further, probably, than you might on a sunny summer day with clear skies and unlimited visibility.

In fog, you reduce your speed accordingly, just as you would if you were driving a car.  You do the same thing in this circumstance, save the need to have your speed up to bust the drifts.

Knowledge of the territory is why you'll find the most senior folks running snowplows and flangers.  They need to know the territory like the back of their hand.  Hitting one crossing with the blade lowered will ruin your whole day...

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, February 7, 2015 9:56 PM

and, it may make the highway department a bit unhappy, too.

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, February 7, 2015 10:29 PM

Trains do not operate on immediate line of sight.  The operate on signal indication or track authorities (most use track warrents) that give them operational authority on the section of track they are opeating on.  Track speed for the territory sets the operational speed limit.  The engineer then relies on his knowledge of the physical characteristics of his territory and the situational awareness of where he is in relation to road crossings and signal locations.

Experienced engineers will amaze you in their knowledge of where they are and what the train handling needs of their train are at that particular location and what they have to do to proceed further.

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Posted by Mookie on Saturday, February 7, 2015 10:42 PM

Thank you for the good explanations.  Running almost blind, at a fair speed with that much power and weight just doesn't really appeal to me.  Maybe that is why it is a little scary to me even in a video.  

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Posted by steve99 on Saturday, February 7, 2015 11:50 PM
Fantastic! Thanks for posting this video.
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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Sunday, February 8, 2015 5:23 PM

Rember riding in the cab (E8) of the PRR passenger train going from Richmond Indiana to Coumbus Ohio in a fog at over 80mph (we had cab signals) but all that could be seen from inside the cab was the headlight reflecting back from the fog. At least we knew there was no train on the track ahead of us but some idiot on the track would not have been seen. In discusions with engineers, they said the worst thing they had hit was a molasses truck. I thought about whether they meant survived. I had thoughts about a gas tanker but kept my mouth shut. We made the schedule and did not slow down. 

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Posted by Lake on Sunday, February 8, 2015 10:15 PM

Paul_D_North_Jr
About 30 years back in Trains there was a frontispiece photo of a CN SW-something that derailed on a crossing, wandered down the street, and came to a stop in front of somebody's house - all around Christmastime !

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, February 9, 2015 1:17 PM

BaltACD

Trains do not operate on immediate line of sight. 

What about restricted speed?

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