Murphy Siding I have on a my desk a map that shows lots available in a new home lots. One section is marked 'finished'. One section is marked 'Currently building'. and one section is marked 'Fall 2015'. It also shows existing streets, gas line easements, lot sizes and quite a bit of other pertinant information. In short, it looks like something drawn up by a surveyor.
I have on a my desk a map that shows lots available in a new home lots. One section is marked 'finished'. One section is marked 'Currently building'. and one section is marked 'Fall 2015'. It also shows existing streets, gas line easements, lot sizes and quite a bit of other pertinant information. In short, it looks like something drawn up by a surveyor.
A subdivision map is probably not an "official government map". It was probably drawn by the land development company's surveyor.
Along the west side of the subdivision, beyond the proporty boundy it says 'Chicago, Minneapolis, & St. Paul Rialroad right-of-way'. This line had been Milwaukee Road. Then the state bought it. A few years back, the state sold it to BNSF. Does the railroad name applied originally stay with official government maps forever? When a graveled county road gets paved and becomes part of a town, the new maps will show the new name given to it, like Sycamore Drive.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Since the USGS maps are digital now, couldn't they use the FRA GIS database for the RR name map layer?
trackrat888 USGS has been at flat or zero funding for years. Most maps have not been updated since the 1970s. Universitys are not replacing there USGS collection as they lose them. So many times I see Penn Central on railroad maps
USGS has been at flat or zero funding for years. Most maps have not been updated since the 1970s. Universitys are not replacing there USGS collection as they lose them. So many times I see Penn Central on railroad maps
(1) Real given name
(2) Parcel in question was close to, but not under crossing, part of the grounds of a former vertical coal mine that interchanged with both railroads. Poorly written ambiguous legals and bad title work contributed to the corned-fusion, lost parcel was landlocked by parcels acquired over time around the ambiguous lost parcel by RatJohn's predecessors in title.
mudchickenHomer Nelson, heirs and assigns..... (hairs and butte signs) (we had a project at the crossing of the Nickel Plate and the CB&Q in ILL that had RatJohn H______ as a grantor. Dear old RatJohn, turns out, only thought he owned the property. Wound up as donated property to an orphanage... County Assessor started the confusion in the 1930's) PDN : CSX now owns a 6000 square foot luxury shack in Western IL that was built on the R/W of three separate railroads (owned in "fee"), the owner and the title bubbas were too cheap to do a proper survey that would have raised multiple fluorescent red flags. Makes the Judge's house pale in comparison.
Johnny
Apropos maps showing railroads that have changed owners, or aren't there any more, Mapquest shows a rail line from Edgemont, SD, to Deadwood, SD - that's been a hiking and biking trail since the early 90s.
Of course, Mapquest still has USS Iowa in the Siusun Bay ship graveyard. She's been a museum in San Pedro for two years plus...
Chuck
ChuckCobleigh Murphy Siding Convicted One Homer Nelson et. al.? No, I don't think he was Latin-probably a Norweigan. Good, because otherwise I would think C-O was accusing Homer of cannibalism.
Murphy Siding Convicted One Homer Nelson et. al.? No, I don't think he was Latin-probably a Norweigan.
Convicted One Homer Nelson et. al.?
Homer Nelson et. al.?
No, I don't think he was Latin-probably a Norweigan.
Good, because otherwise I would think C-O was accusing Homer of cannibalism.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
As to Murphy's point: The Tax Office usually knows who the current owner is, or at least who's paying the taxes on behalf of the owner; if that isn't happening, then it won't be his property for much longer ! So that's where you usually start to find out who the current owner is. Not official or guaranteed to be the owner, "but that's the way to bet"(as the saying goes).
If the plat doesn't reference one or the other, then someone should be asking questions about what's going on. Usually there's a local who knows the family or history of the land well enough to be the one to point that out. Most planning boards and land offices are reluctant to allow something to be approved and recorded - with their signatures and official seals on it - if there's something clearly amiss or badly out of date (not that it doesn't happen, but the ones I've worked with are pretty scrupulous about that). Then again, with 2,500+ municipalities here in "Penn's Woods", they're small enough that there's likely someone around who knows everybody and everything that's happened and is happening, and is only too happy to share that inside knowledge . . .
- Paul North.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
That makes sense about leasing etc... Consider this, let's say that the land on the other side of the subdivision had been owned by Homer Nelson. It had been in his family since the late 1800's. Since ol' Homer died way back in 1980, the property has been through a bankruptsy, and a couple of ownership changes. How would it look if the map of the subdivision showed Homer Nelson as the adjoining landowner?
Murphy Siding Does the railroad name applied originally stay with official government maps forever?
Probably not applicable to your specific situation, but one other possibility no one seems to have mentioned yet, sometimes the "familiar name" that everyone associates with a line, might have been just a lessee.
Suppose the "Oakee Doke investment trust calling itself a railway" buys the land and hires itself a labor force to build a rail line from A to B, and then leases the asset to an operator, who later assigns it's interest to some other entity that it is merged into, it might look confusing as to why the name on the maps do not match the names that the line has been historically associated with. (fwiw)
Surveyors will usually check in the county Recorder of Deeds / Land Records office, which will have at least the name of the railroad when the R-O-W was first acquired. After that, subsequent name changes being recorded and updated is 'iffy' at best. One common reason is that mergers are often recorded in the state's Department of State corporation records, but that change doesn't always promptly (or ever) work its way down to the local level. And when it does, it's often a massive Deed containing all the R-O-W properties in that county, those that straddle the county line, and anything else that the preparer of the Deed thinks ought to or might be the railroad's in that county, including portions of lines that were sold off long ago . . . (this was ConRail's method). For an uninformed title clerk, a USRA Line Code reference and greatly shrunken R-O-W map may as well be in Greek. In some other instances, the Deed is never recorded, on the basis that: 1) any competent ( ) title searcher will check the Dept. of State's corporation records; 2) by the presence of the tracks and general knowledge, everyone in the local public is on notice that there is or was a railroad there, so they ought to check it out; 3) if all else fails, no one can acquire good title as against a railroad to a piece of land by adverse possession, etc.; and 4) the acquiring railroad can't afford to do all (or any) of this anyway. Failure to follow any of these 'good practice' principles is what keeps mudchicken and some other knowledgeable folks at work and with a paycheck (and some humorous and/ or scary "war stories"), and brings grief in various forms to others.
I often specify or request that the title company - not the surveyor, because surveyors are expert in measuring and determining distances, etc., not title searching - perform a thorough search not only of the land records for the property of interest, but also those records of all the adjoiners (including roads). That information is needed anyway for a couple of reasons, the Original Post being one of them. More importantly is to find out if and which property was subdivided off the other, because that history can affect the determination and location of the property lines (for the specifics of why and how, see any good course or text on cadastral surveys - it's more about this kind of thing than using the very precise surveying instruments). For example, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadastral_surveying : "The surveyor should then obtain copies of deed descriptions and maps of the adjoining properties, . . . ".
Unfortunately, I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times that request has been honored and followed through - usually because someone objects to the slight added cost, time, and effort - which results in a protective disclaimer note being placed on the final survey plan. Rarely does anyone read that and ask what it's all about . . . so the information is only as good as they're willing to pay for. For instance, mudchicken has the best story I've heard yet about how that can go wrong for the developer/ subdivider and subsequent purchaser of the property (the judge's house in Colorado . . . ).
The railroad has indeed changed ownership, it may just have not gotten down to the county level. Common blunder that we see nationwide.
As a surveyor, in most states, adjoiners are supposed to be identified by current ownership. Cerro Gordo County in Iowa just recently discovered how dangerous not getting it right can be. Having taught railroad surveying basics in SD and IA, it's interesting to see what some of these folks have never been aware of. IF (BIG IF) you had a county surveyor checking plats at submittal, he should be rejecting the plats or at least questioning the data.
Would love to know if there was an ALTA survey tied to that subdivision plat and the blunder can be chased back to a Title Agent. (Surveyors do not determine title, however they do collect evidence and show apparent ownership.)
BN, MILW, Omaha Road et al are dead as primary operating companies and land interests long ago were transferred over. The railroad industry is hardly a dying enterprise anymore, but people don't change with the times. (Esp. GIS and tax mapping people) Long and loud discussions over the finer points of this continue to happen, the surveyor may not be as much lazy as stuck with a broken concept of accepted practice that needs to change. (PDN and I have stories about what's "good enough")
Murphy Siding Along the west side of the subdivision, beyond the proporty boundy it says 'Chicago, Minneapolis, & St. Paul Rialroad right-of-way'. This line had been Milwaukee Road. Then the state bought it. A few years back, the state sold it to BNSF. Does the railroad name applied originally stay with official government maps forever? When a graveled county road gets paved and becomes part of a town, the new maps will show the new name given to it, like Sycamore Drive.
If it says exactly what you wrote, I bet when the modern map was made they just wrote the railroad name from an earlier map. I would bet the earlier map probably just had initials, CM&StP instead of it spelled out. Why? Because if it was former Milwaukee Road trackage, it should read "Chicago Milwaukee and St Paul." (Back then it was informally known as "The St.Paul Road.")
I bet the person read CM&StP and, substituted Minneapolis for Milwaukee. Minneapolis probably being more recognizable than Milwaukee to the general public.
Jeff
That right of way never changed ownership, although the name of the owner changed over the years, so I don't think there would be any need to reregister it. I notice the name apparently even predates the Pacific extension.
Government maps often contain railroad anachronisms. Geology maps in particular often retain long gone railroad lines and names, simply because they are irrelevant to the map's purpose and so are never revised during any updates.
I found a wonderful example on an Ontario (Canada) county road map. A branch line was abandoned in two stages, the northern half in the 1930s and the remainder in the 1960s. The more recent abandonment had been recorded by the provincial cartographers and removed from the map, but the portion that had disappeared 40 years earlier was still shown. Different levels of government rarely communicate!
John
It is called being Lazy, The mapmaker copied it off older maps.
I have on a my desk a map that shows lots available in a new home lots. One section is marked 'finished'. One section is marked 'Currently building'. and one section is marked 'Fall 2015'. It also shows existing streets, gas line easements, lot sizes and quite a bit of other pertinant information. In short, it looks like something drawn up by a surveyor. Along the west side of the subdivision, beyond the proporty boundy it says 'Chicago, Minneapolis, & St. Paul Rialroad right-of-way'. This line had been Milwaukee Road. Then the state bought it. A few years back, the state sold it to BNSF. Does the railroad name applied originally stay with official government maps forever? When a graveled county road gets paved and becomes part of a town, the new maps will show the new name given to it, like Sycamore Drive.
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