Piggybacking became big in the 1950s-60s and container trains in 1980s-90s. What is going to be the next big thing in rail freight handling in the United States?
My guess - automated, no-crew trains. Not saying that I think it's a good thing, but it's inevitable on a private ROW.
If we're going the technology route, I'd hope it would be Positive Train Control (whether it's by the deadline or not), or Electronic-assisted Automatic Brake Systems.Freight commodities: liquefied natural gas (see thread elsewhere). Or here's something really novel: why not transport human beings between towns that are too close for efficient air service, at a speed that makes them faster than roads, and as fast as (and a lot more efficient and less expensive than) airlines, downtown-to-downtown, and is less disruptive in land use than either airports or highways.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
I hope the next big thing is in the way of new traffic rather than heightened automation.
Crewless trains would be the death of railfanning and TRAINS. Or do you know of any fanzines out there devoted to conveyor belts?
dakotafredCrewless trains would be the death of railfanning and TRAINS. Or do you know of any fanzines out there devoted to conveyor belts?
http://forum.bulk-online.com/showthread.php?24257-The-Top-25-Belt-Conveyor-Forum-Threads
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
CShaveRR If we're going the technology route, I'd hope it would be Positive Train Control (whether it's by the deadline or not), or Electronic-assisted Automatic Brake Systems.Freight commodities: liquefied natural gas (see thread elsewhere). Or here's something really novel: why not transport human beings between towns that are too close for efficient air service, at a speed that makes them faster than roads, and as fast as (and a lot more efficient and less expensive than) airlines, downtown-to-downtown, and is less disruptive in land use than either airports or highways.
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zugmann dakotafred Crewless trains would be the death of railfanning and TRAINS. Or do you know of any fanzines out there devoted to conveyor belts? http://forum.bulk-online.com/showthread.php?24257-The-Top-25-Belt-Conveyor-Forum-Threads
dakotafred Crewless trains would be the death of railfanning and TRAINS. Or do you know of any fanzines out there devoted to conveyor belts?
You got me. I'm (almost) speechless. Never say never, I guess. Or that it can't happen.
Wasn't the Muskingum Electric Railroad with operated crewless trains?
Conveyor belt discussion groups? What, no escalators? I kind of like that idea about transporting human cargo. Just might work!
BART started out crewless, then put riders in the cabs because the empty cab freaked out passengers waiting on platforms.
I believe that the Black Mesa and Lake Powell started off crewless. Don't know its current status.
My thought is that a single controller-operator could manage a whole division of 'unmanned' trains, using USAF drone technology. (S)he could work in a nice climate-controlled environment, with tv and sensor displays for every cab and the ability to assume hands-on control to deal with exceptions to the normal routine. No, 'dying for time' - the next shift operator reports in and swaps seats after a quick status briefing, with no interruption in train control.
Or the entire surface transportation system could become a sub-surface system, pneumatically propelled capsules in underground tubes. No more grade crossing mishaps, but a very boring environment for passengers.
Chuck (Occasional SF author)
What about new types of rail cars? I believe that BNSF and NS use roadrailers and a company in Texas has a self-unloading aggregate train. Will it ever become more economically viable to see expanded uses of this type of equipment?
54light15 Conveyor belt discussion groups? What, no escalators? I kind of like that idea about transporting human cargo. Just might work!
Are you kidding? Tons of elevator and escalator foamers out there: https://www.youtube.com/user/EscalatorsDotCo
Next big thing I'd like to see is real rest management and more regular hours for train crews.
Yeah, I dream big.
I just checked my calendar.. yup... we're due for another crewless train post.
The next big thing may be further evolution of rail companies into multimodal transportation companies that offer a wide range of transportation services. Instead of merging with each other to create even bigger rail companies, maybe they will instead look at other combinations: like a CSX - CH Robinson merger... or a Union Pacific - Werner Enterprises merger. There would probably also be less regulatory resistence to such mergers.
Temperature controlled shipments of meat, poultry, fresh/frozen vegetables and fresh/frozen fruit.
In intermodal service provided with refrigerated boxcars as the intermodal rail car. The boxcars move terminal to terminal as the double stack cars do now. Trucks do the pick up and delivery. Virtual containers go inside the rail car. The cost savings are tremendous.
It's "ON THE WAY".
greyhounds Temperature controlled shipments of meat, poultry, fresh/frozen vegetables and fresh/frozen fruit. In intermodal service provided with refrigerated boxcars as the intermodal rail car. The boxcars move terminal to terminal as the double stack cars do now. Trucks do the pick up and delivery. Virtual containers go inside the rail car. The cost savings are tremendous. It's "ON THE WAY".
As one who fondly remembers the swarm of "Green Fruits" in season on the Union Pacific, I'd like to believe you're right, but will have to be shown, at least regarding fresh produce.
I'm afraid we've lived too long with long-distance trucking of fresh and grown accustomed to the higher price. Besides, how -- seriously -- are the rails to shoehorn the necessary fast schedules into their present (and maybe future) congested networks?
Frozen food, on the other hand, ought to fall into the category of freight that doesn't have to get there fast, only on-schedule.
dakotafredAs one who fondly remembers the swarm of "Green Fruits" in season on the Union Pacific, I'd like to believe you're right, but will have to be shown, at least regarding fresh produce. I'm afraid we've lived too long with long-distance trucking of fresh and grown accustomed to the higher price. Besides, how -- seriously -- are the rails to shoehorn the necessary fast schedules into their present (and maybe future) congested networks? Frozen food, on the other hand, ought to fall into the category of freight that doesn't have to get there fast, only on-schedule.
OK, groceries are a "Penny Business". The mark up at a supermarket is 1% or 2% on most food items. The stores basically stay afloat on two things: 1) Volume and 2) higher markups on non-grocery items such as hair brushes or razors. Show these guys a cost savings and they're going to take it. Big time.
There is no need for new schedules. Just add the reefers to an existing intermodal schedule. 10 reefer cars will put the revenue of 35-40 truckloads on an existing train. The expenses will increase but little, while the revenue will increase by a lot. The money will hit the bottom line while saving the customer money.
Don't know about human cargo, seem to me that was tried once. Was only successful when hauled by fire breathing locomotives. Maybe try one of them 2-6-6-6 on them that everyone is talking about.
and don't forget the possibility of the new benign Hydrogen Peroxide preservatives allowing longer delivery times.
Ken, how is your idea different from UP's perishable trains for Railex, which are going strong and have been for years? Just curious.
dakotafred I hope the next big thing is in the way of new traffic rather than heightened automation. Crewless trains would be the death of railfanning and TRAINS. Or do you know of any fanzines out there devoted to conveyor belts?
People did railfan the Muskigum electric railroad which was crewless (and built in the late 1960's !)..
However I doubt completely crewless trains will be seen on North American rails anytime soon. There is considerable public and governmental concern about rail safety that is unlikely to ease anytime soon.
However,One man train crew operations probably will become much more common...
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
JoeBlow What about new types of rail cars? I believe that BNSF and NS use roadrailers and a company in Texas has a self-unloading aggregate train. Will it ever become more economically viable to see expanded uses of this type of equipment?
Only Norfolk Southern operates Roadrailers at the present time.
The Georgetown railroad equipment "Dumptrain" system you speak of is in service hauling aggregate (mostly for MOW operations) but, when trialed for coal and other bulk commodities was not price competive with conventional bottom dump hoppers and rotary unloaded gondolas.
Have fun with your trains
edblysard You mean you could go downtown, park your car, get on a train, go to another city, get off downtown, catch a cab or rent a car and go where you wanted, all in under a day without a baggage search and a full body search? That’s just plain ….wait a minute!
You mean you could go downtown, park your car, get on a train, go to another city, get off downtown, catch a cab or rent a car and go where you wanted, all in under a day without a baggage search and a full body search?
That’s just plain ….wait a minute!
or better yet, dispense with the automobile completely, and use public transit for the entire trip, and still be able to go where you wanted.
Patrick Boylan
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You mean those bus things, right?
The ones that always get in the way on the freeway when I am headed to work?
gardendance edblysard You mean you could go downtown, park your car, get on a train, go to another city, get off downtown, catch a cab or rent a car and go where you wanted, all in under a day without a baggage search and a full body search? That’s just plain ….wait a minute! or better yet, dispense with the automobile completely, and use public transit for the entire trip, and still be able to go where you wanted.
Right: Take 5-8 hours for a trip that would take less than 2 hours in an automobile.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
greyhoundsTemperature controlled shipments of meat, poultry, fresh/frozen vegetables and fresh/frozen fruit. In intermodal service provided with refrigerated boxcars as the intermodal rail car. The boxcars move terminal to terminal as the double stack cars do now. Trucks do the pick up and delivery. Virtual containers go inside the rail car. The cost savings are tremendous. It's "ON THE WAY".
CShaveRRKen, how is your idea different from UP's perishable trains for Railex, which are going strong and have been for years? Just curious.
The difference is frequency of dispatch.
Railex is based around unit trains of perishables. This limits them to just two origin terminals in the west. High trucking charges to these origin terminals limit their market penetration. The same thing happens at destination terminals - there are but one (or two) in the east. So Railex has high trucking costs for deliveries too.
Additionally, the Railex market is limited by its need to aggregate perishable products into trainload lots. This means they can only originate a train one or two days per week. The resultant delay eliminates the opportunity to haul perishable products that must move quickly. It can work for apples, pears, carrots, potatoes, etc. But fresh meat, poultry and lettuce need to move. They cannot sit around waiting for unit train volume to be aggregated.
Reefer cars of perishable product can be used as intermodal cars. (with virtual containers inside the car) They can be added to existing trains opeating in the current intermodal network.
This will allow daily dispatch of perishable loads and provide the expidited service these customers need. It will add significant revenue to existing trains while adding a small amount of cost.
That is the difference from Railex.
chutton01I recall you posting about this recently, but at the time it seemed to me to be nothing more than a cross between really big pallets and air freight containers. I still think it's a shame that all-door boxcars didn't take off in North America like they did in Europe (well, that statement's relative, since rail freight isn't that big percentage-wise in Europe); sliding wall reefers would have really made this semi-intermodal perishable goods flow easy to load/unload.
Nope. A 12 foot wide door works just fine.
Well Greyhound, you seem rather excited (relative term) by this reefer-as-container-car concept. Since I'd like to see a lot more perishables go by rail, I'll root for it to succeed myself.Has BNSF resolved it's capacity issues yet? Sounds like 2 intermodal reefer container flows (ColdTrain and TransCold) failed due to BNSF capacity constraints not allowing them to fully utilize their leased reefer containers...
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