The boat's back in the water, I rigged the mast and sails, I'm ready to take railfans and normal people who love railfans to look for trains.
Patrick Boylan
Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message
Somehow this thread got dropped to page 2. A few folks on another website said that's where good posts go to die, and suggested I embed the videos if I ever hope to get 5 drooling stars out of 5.
And now in completely the other direction, I sailed north and got these NJT Riverline videos just south of Bordentown NJ.
This time I was all by myself, the advantage is that I'm able to stay out long past the time normal people would otherwise have said "enough with the railroad pictures, it's time to go home.
The DISadvantage is that I'm able to stay out long past the time normal people would otherwise have said "enough with the railroad pictures, it's time to go home.
It looks like insert>>insert video works, but the resultant embedded window's so big it's difficult to read and edit the post.
http://youtu.be/-QxBNBkjTsA curiously didn't show up clickable the 1st time I pasted. It looks like the trick is to add a line feed, which I was able subsequently to backspace.
http://youtu.be/eO-DKVvLk8I
http://youtu.be/CebJiGFnGmc
http://youtu.be/J73r5QN4Pkw
http://youtu.be/cHiU8bYv_-s
It looks like trains.com new and improved software, which Ang says IT says they did without changing code, doesn't work. I selected "insert video", but the videos didn't show. Here are the addresses, prepared to be bored, long distance AEM7, ACS-64, Silverliner 5, all just south of Claymont De station
http://youtu.be/Oh602M3MPO8
http://youtu.be/hQd0vZ-UrJg
http://youtu.be/qMjOEjK0Yqk
Folks, I warned you what would happen if we were to continue to rely on my photography with normal people, that is those who are not railfans, in the boat: crappy photos and videos. These are the results from a trip to Claymont, De. It took about 5 hours southbound from my yacht club to get to another club in Essington, where we spent the night. The next day, with contrary tide, it took about 3 hours to get to Claymont. Because the only people on the boat were non railfans I coulnd't convince them to wake up early enough to take advantage of favorable tide, or to hang around at Claymont anchored in a spot close enough for really good vantage of the railroad.
It looks like no more chances this season, I'm probably going to pull the boat out of the water shortly after Oct 12. I hope some of you good photographers will come out with me in 2015.
Those of you who already sent me your real email addresses should have already gotten the report of Sat Jul 5 trip to Penn's Landing fireworks. Since that was not primarily a train trip I hesitate to gum up trains.com about it, but I did see a freight and an NJT passenger train cross while we were southbound before sunset, both much too far away for any photos, and another NJT train while we were northbound between 2 and 4am.
I assume there's no real need to mention much about the several PATCO trains we saw on the Ben Franklin bridge.
Sorry, my timekeeping during all that trip is extremely subpar. Another excuse for me to ask for railfan companions willing to do things none of my friends will.
http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/230702.aspx
OhioRiverTrail http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/230465.aspx I learned more about sailing then trains but my host was very hospitable. If you have a Friday off and U can get to Tooresdale N of Phlliy on the Trenton Line and can bring beer and suntan lotion U are in for quite a experience. I also now know that at one time the river was important local shipping lane until the late 1960s and 1970s. For whatever reason I found that some neighborhoods in outer philly don't have sidewalks. Thank U Pat aka Gardendance!!!
http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/230465.aspx
I learned more about sailing then trains but my host was very hospitable. If you have a Friday off and U can get to Tooresdale N of Phlliy on the Trenton Line and can bring beer and suntan lotion U are in for quite a experience. I also now know that at one time the river was important local shipping lane until the late 1960s and 1970s. For whatever reason I found that some neighborhoods in outer philly don't have sidewalks. Thank U Pat aka Gardendance!!!
Thank you Ohio, but I'd really prefer to have just 1 thread. I guess I should have been clearer, the help I need is to get other folks to photograph while I sail. I had been expecting you to bring your own camera, and I didn't bring my own since I suffer from "I go there all the time" syndrome.
But to your credit, you did fulfill the minimum requirement: you didn't hit anything when you were at the tiller.
You also helped confirm tree68's post "Per NOAA, the current on the Delaware at Philly never really exceeds about 2 knots, even with the tides." We left the yacht club, which is about 6 miles NORTH of the Delaire bridge, slightly before 7:30pm, and got to the bridge before 8:30. I still believe that the river has a special unpublished flow and runs considerably faster than 2 knots anytime I have to go against it
We saw 1 NJT passenger train before the sun set, continued south to just a bit past the Ben Franklin Bridge, and of course saw a few PATCO trains cross both before and after sunset.
On the return north saw 1 other NJT train cross Delaire bridge, but saw no freights during the 4 or so hours we were close enough to see the bridge. My dear companions all went downstairs and fell asleep around midnight muttering something about "it's your boat, you stay awake and steer". We safely got back to the yacht club about 1am.
Paul_D_North_Jr That's a comfortable walking pace, but that's probably a generalized average over a considerable 'reach' of the river and its width. "Your Mileage May Vary" in various locations as the river twists and turns, the bottom corss-section changes shape (esp. depth vs. width), shallower areas are drained or re-watered as the tide goes out or comes back in, respectively, etc. - Paul North.
That's a comfortable walking pace, but that's probably a generalized average over a considerable 'reach' of the river and its width. "Your Mileage May Vary" in various locations as the river twists and turns, the bottom corss-section changes shape (esp. depth vs. width), shallower areas are drained or re-watered as the tide goes out or comes back in, respectively, etc.
- Paul North.
The site actually had readings at several locations - I just chose one more or less at random.
Most of my sailing has been on the inland see that is Lake Ontario, where there are tides, but short-term changes in lake level are more likely caused by the wind blowing the water up to the eastern end of the lake.
I did sail in a lagoon in the south Pacific, though, and with just one opening to the sea, the current really moved through there.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
gardendance I just realized you said 2 knots, which I think is 2.3mph. You must surely be a saltier sailor than I am, but I still don't believe that NOAA river flow estimate.
I just realized you said 2 knots, which I think is 2.3mph. You must surely be a saltier sailor than I am, but I still don't believe that NOAA river flow estimate.
Believe it or not... but for the observed reach, there it is. (And the NOAA data is stated as given in kt.) Note that implicitly your assumption about the Atlantic Ocean is confirmed in the provided data; the 'negative' current peaks are substantially above the positive ones.
What I found interesting in this small sample was that the 'predicted' flow peaks for the given station were so much higher than the actual data from observation. That suggests to me either that there are higher peaks in different 'bins' in the channel, or that the peak current values for a given river state can, in fact, be higher than those actually observed. I suppose a 'sensible' analysis might be to overlay the values on the physical locations of the 'bins' on a chart of the river, and see from that whether there are likely to be higher values elsewhere in the channel...
In any case, a good modern differential GPS system ought to be able to give you a reality check on both speed and vector, either when drifting or when motoring against the current.
I wish somebody would explain why I think I feel 5mph wind when the current's pushing me backwards.
gardendanceI don't know for sure how strong the current is, but there's a lot more water in the Atlantic Ocean than there is in the Catskill Mountains, so the only current we'll notice is the tide.
Per NOAA, the current on the Delaware at Philly never really exceeds about 2 knots, even with the tides.
I wouldn't discount how much current the Catskills can generate - remember, water coming out of the mountains is getting a running start...
I don't know for sure how strong the current is, but there's a lot more water in the Atlantic Ocean than there is in the Catskill Mountains, so the only current we'll notice is the tide.
The boat has an inboard diesel engine, but only lesser men would think of using it if there's the slightest puff of wind. Rule of thumb is that tides are 6 hours, one of which is slack, that is no discernible flow.
Best time is usually just before hi tide, especially if there's any wind. The incoming tide will be lessening, so any mph advantage the wind has will increase as the incoming tide decreases. That holds true for the return as well, probably start back as the outgoing tide lessens, but before it actually slackens or reverses.
Yes, the tide can negate the wind, so we'll consult the weather report, the tidal report, the periscope and the horoscope. However the wind can also often overcome the tide. Usually when cruising for less than 6 hours I plan to fight the tide at the beginning, so I have it helping me return home when I'm tired.
I'd plan on 2 hours to get from my mooring to Delair bridge. With favorable winds that could happen faster, but without wind I'd expect the tide to get us there in about 2 hours. And it's extremely unlikely that a strong wind opposing the tide would slow us down much, we'd just have to zigzag more times than we would with a lesser wind in the right direction.
Repeat on the return, which presumably would be after the tide changes to incoming.
The Delair Bridge runs roughly northwest to southeast, with the southwestern track being used by ConRail Shared Assets Operation (CSAO), and the northeastern track being used by New Jersey Transit's Atlantic City Line.
Consequently, I would expect the freight track to have good lighting most of the day - directly from the side in the 3 PM (EST) to 4 PM (EDT) range, and from the southeast (head-on for trains going to NJ) around 9 to 10 AM, and from the northwest (head-on for trains going to PA) in the evening.
NJT trains would be on the far side of the bridge from the sun most of the day - might still receive direct sunlight, but with the bridgework structure seeming to obscure them more and causing bigger shadows. Head-on lighting would seem to occur only in the morning hours (going to NJ) or in the evening (going to PA).
How strong is the tidal current here ? If the winds are calm, is it fast and consistent/ long enough in duration to get us there ? I presume the best time to go downriver is sometime after the "Hi" tide, and the best time to return is sometime after the "Lo" tide ? Conversely, can the tidal flows negate the wind's power ? (As you can perhaps tell, I have no expertise on sail-powered vessels in tidal waters !)
I rode the Port Road on the last westbound National Limited 1977 or thereabouts, maybe it was 1978.
I also bicycled it once. I had planned to take US 40, saw a mean "no bikes on bridge" sign at Perryville, so went up to US 1 at Connowingo. There's not much room for both the single track railroad and the 2 lane highway, so I got decent railroad views.
In my opinion US 1's white line across Conowingo dam was much more dangerous than the walkway on US 40, but I saw no bicycle prohibiting signs.
Biking Philly to Baltimore, 8 hours of reasonable fun and 5 hours of torture each way. Another reason why my wife thinks I'm crazy.
I haven't actually looked at charts, but I've heard that the bay's shallow there, getting to Havre de Grace or Perryville requires about an hour of diesel sucking engine running to stay in the channel.
Understood. ! For when that day comes, though, added incentives are that at Perryville - Havre De Grace there are also a couple of other freight lines. The CSX Baltimore - Philadelphia main also crosses the Susquehanna River about a mile upstream on a pretty 'open' bridge (other side of the US Rt. 40 bridge, but before the I-95 bridge). The NS, ex-PRR "Port Road" branch is on the east side of the Susquehanna, too. It should be mostly visible from around the CSX bridge for about as far upstream as the River is practically navigable, roughly 3 miles (2 miles above the I-95 bridge).
Yep, near Bell tower is just what I'm thinking of. When we got the boat it was in Toms River NJ, we were new sailors so the 3 of us hired a licensed captain to pilot us. Early in the trip he taught us the difference between the red and green buoys, and the ones that were both red and green. Those designated where there were 2 channels, and the preferred channel depended on which was on top, red or green. Around Bell tower there are 2 channels, I believe the preferred channel is the one further from Amtrak, so if I'm remembering right we should be able to take my 4' draft sailboat into the lesser channel and get closer to Amtrak, and have less worry from big ships.
Another story about Bell tower, driving south on interstate 495 with an under 5 year old child, who when he saw the tower said "That's where the dispatcher lives".
I'm going to have to hold off on upper Chesapeake photographs for a while. Baby steps please, let's conquer the more reasonable closer fantasies first.
gardendance [snipped - PDN] . . . If an outing like this succeeds my next fantasy is to sail to Claymont-Wilmington for Notheast Corridor action. Ever since I rode my first train Philly-Baltimore, I think when I was 7 years old, I had wanted to be able to see that stretch of Amtrak from the river, which to my then young eyes looked like an ocean. . . .
Similar opportunities exist further south in Maryland along the Chesapeake Bay's western shoreline north of Baltimore (get there and back via the Intracoastal Waterway's Chesapeake & Delaware Canal), too, such as at North East - Charlestown, Perryville - Havre De Grace, Bush River (if not restricted by the US Army - Aberdeen Proving Ground is to the east, and Edgewood Arsenal [chemical weapons] is nearby), and the Gunpowder River / Falls area.
Delair bridge is more interesting than I would have thought. It originally had a center-pivot swing span, but circa 1956 was converted to a vertical lift bridge - you can see a side effect of that in the weird steeper angle of the end portal of one truss where it was cut short for insertion of the left tower. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delair_Bridge
http://www.dvrpc.org/freight/pdf/2003_Delair-Bridge-Tierney.pdf (1st 7 of 37 pages/ slides, approx. 611 KB electronic file size)
http://www.workshopoftheworld.com/richmond_bridesburg/delair.html
http://bridgehunter.com/pa/philadelphia/delair/
http://phillyskyline.com/summerofthedelaware/19.htm
I did PM you already Jun 12 and gave you my contact info after you PM'd me. This is the 1st I've heard from you since then, so waddup widdat?
Just in case, I copied this into a PM.
Paul_D_North_Jr Do the trains, tides, lighting directions, and decent weather correlate often enough to make obtaining decent photos and videos a reasonable possibility within several hours (like, better than 1-in-3 odds) ?
Do the trains, tides, lighting directions, and decent weather correlate often enough to make obtaining decent photos and videos a reasonable possibility within several hours (like, better than 1-in-3 odds) ?
Those videos were from a single trip Nov 2013, the 1st 3 are approaching the bridge from the north. Before I, or maybe it was my wife, shot them I saw an NJT passenger train crossing, my wife took some stills, but I didn't like them because we were too far away. The 3 videos got the same freight train as it crossed from PA to NJ, I'm still not satisfied with the distance. The 4th video was a bit closer, alas no train. The 5th video I felt was close enough, south side of the bridge looking north. Then when we returned north I saw another NJT passenger train crossing, opposite direction from the prior, once again I felt we were too far away.
So it's certainly possible for the conditions to allow some decent dwell time for decent shots. If I had studied the schedules I bet we could have spotted the boat somewhere for good shots of all 4 trains, but I'm sure my wife's lack of foam would not have let us stay in one spot long enough, which is why I'm imploring you more reasonable folks to help.
last time we went through the trip was from 19114 to the Walt Whitman bridge and back. At no time on that trip did I see any trains cross until on the return way far north of the Delair Bridge I saw 2 NJT trains cross. Again if I had checked the schedule, and had passengers willing to stop at the bridge, we could have gotten shots.
Today, longest day of the year,
http://www.weather.com/weather/5-day/Philadelphia+PA+19114:4:US
Today Jun 21 Mostly Cloudy 80°F Mostly Cloudy CHANCE OF RAIN: 20% WIND: ENE at 9 mphSun Jun 22 Partly Cloudy 82° Partly Cloudy CHANCE OF RAIN: 0% WIND: E at 5 mph
http://www.weatherforyou.com/reports/index.php?locid=789&forecast=tides
Sat Jun 21 lo 4:11 AM hi 9:41 am lo 4:34 PM hi 10:17 PMSun Jun 22 lo 5:10 AM hi 10:38 am lo 5:27 PM hi 11:10 PM
so it should be possible to head out from my mooring around 8am, sit around the bridge till 7pm, and get back to the mooring long before we exhaust either sunlight or the food and drink in my 2 iceboxes.
If an outing like this succeeds my next fantasy is to sail to Claymont-Wilmington for Notheast Corridor action. Ever since I rode my first train Philly-Baltimore, I think when I was 7 years old, I had wanted to be able to see that stretch of Amtrak from the river, which to my then young eyes looked like an ocean.
Paul_D_North_Jr *If we see a sludge barge coming, though, we're off the water - or at least well out of the marked shipping channel - so as to avoid another potential repeat of the July 2010 "Duck Boat" disaster. See: http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/09/justice/pennsylvania-duck-boat-settlement/ - Paul North.
*If we see a sludge barge coming, though, we're off the water - or at least well out of the marked shipping channel - so as to avoid another potential repeat of the July 2010 "Duck Boat" disaster. See: http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/09/justice/pennsylvania-duck-boat-settlement/
Do the trains, tides, lighting directions, and decent weather correlate often enough to make obtaining decent photos and videos a reasonable possibility within several hours (like, better than 1-in-3 odds) ? I sometimes wait or work trackside and get zip, especially in daytime.
If you don't get any responses - or want to attempt this on multiple occasions (or maybe back-to-back during a long day ?) - contact me via PM, and we'll see what we can work out for sometime this summer. I'm quite familiar with one type of small unpowered boats (canoes), have my own tripods (2) and Personal Flotation Device (used often !), and am comfortable out on the water, even 'big waters' like the Delaware River*. I live in the Allentown area now, but grew up in the northern suburbs of Philly, and worked in the greater Philly metro area for about 13 years, so I know the PA side pretty well.
gardendanceI don't even know anybody named Bligh.
Think of him as a kind of Pfiesteria piscicida adaptation that can occur in sailboat captains when... certain kinds of environmental stress occur.
I regret to say that I think your own brother is suggesting a 'Hyde and Hare' scenario here. (But t'won't stop me from taking you up on your offer when I get back Northeast.)
I don't know if you did anybody any favors by embedding the actual videos here, you might scare people away. I'm not proud of them, which is why I'm begging you guys to be camera operator and let me be boat operator.
I even got so desperate I asked my brother to come today. My yacht club's north of the bridge, low tide today is 3:40pm, which means no matter what the wind does we should be able to go south before low tide, dwell relatively easily for an hour, and get back north after. He said it's tempting but he's worried Capt. Bligh will show up. I don't even know anybody named Bligh.
gardendance Ladies and Germans, I'm serious about my signature. I need somebody to take decent photos and videos from my sailboat. My wife is probably not going to want to bob around in one spot on the Delaware River waiting for a train to go across, and as you should be able to tell from these videos, I'm a lousy photographer. My only excuse is that I also have to steer the boat, can we all agree that right at the bridge is not the greatest place to anchor? f7lG4AFJBCo 17hXosdTBM UeNlXEGmT38 shhFHqTU7rU 4bCOKgmOjwU
Ladies and Germans, I'm serious about my signature. I need somebody to take decent photos and videos from my sailboat. My wife is probably not going to want to bob around in one spot on the Delaware River waiting for a train to go across, and as you should be able to tell from these videos, I'm a lousy photographer.
My only excuse is that I also have to steer the boat, can we all agree that right at the bridge is not the greatest place to anchor?
f7lG4AFJBCo
17hXosdTBM
UeNlXEGmT38
shhFHqTU7rU
4bCOKgmOjwU
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
http://youtu.be/f7lG4AFJBCohttp://youtu.be/17hXo_sdTBMhttp://youtu.be/UeNlXEGmT38http://youtu.be/shhFHqTU7rUhttp://youtu.be/4bCOKgmOjwU
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