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12-9 (NYCT speak for man under train)

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12-9 (NYCT speak for man under train)
Posted by BroadwayLion on Tuesday, December 04, 2012 3:35 PM

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by Firelock76 on Tuesday, December 04, 2012 7:31 PM

In deference and sympathy for the poor mans family, the Post should NOT have put that picture on the front page.  Nor on any other page for that matter.  There are limits people.

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Posted by henry6 on Tuesday, December 04, 2012 7:43 PM

NY Post.  Rupert Murdoch.  What else do you need to know for an answer?

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Posted by Firelock76 on Tuesday, December 04, 2012 8:05 PM

Anyone remember Jane Dornacker?  She was a helicopter traffic reporter for WNBC-AM  back in the mid-80's.  She was killed  when her helo crashed into the Hudson River, not far from the USS Intrepid.  The New York Daily News front-paged a very graphic photo of her body being recovered from the river, and there was a perfect storm of condemnation for the same.  I don't think the Daily News ever crossed that line again.  Too bad the Post forget the lesson, but then again the 1980's are probably ancient history to the people at the Post.  "The one thing we learn from history is that most people NEVER learn from history."

By the way, if you've ever seen the movie "The Right Stuff"  you've seen Jane Dornacker.  She played the creepy nurse with the heavy-rimmed glasses who oversees the rather "thorough" physicals the Mercury 7 astronauts recieve.

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Posted by henry6 on Tuesday, December 04, 2012 8:07 PM

The Post and Murdoch do not learn lessons, the give them.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY will plan and escort railfan rides in and around the NY Metropolitan and Philadephia areas: no mode of transportation is untouched. Guaranteed railfan fun!

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Posted by John WR on Tuesday, December 04, 2012 8:32 PM

It sure is frightening.  It shows how much, in an urban society, we depend on our fellow citizens to be strangers.  Many years ago a man stabbed an elderly woman in Newark Penn Station.  That struck me because my Mom would come down from Providence to see me.  She would get off the train at Newark Penn Station and wait there for me about 20 minutes until I got off work and came to pick her up.  

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Tuesday, December 04, 2012 8:59 PM

You cannot climb up onto the platform, it is far too tall for that. He could have stepped into the row of pillars or he could have lay down in the drain gutter between the rails and the train would have passed right over him with no harm. But how many people know these things or even think of them. Even rolling under the platform might help (unless you contact a live third rail shoe), sometimes there is enough space in there to "clear up", but the best bet is the pillar row. Different stations present different issues. On elevated stations there are full ties, since no drainage is necessary and the clearance between tie and traction motor is minimal. Best thing is to never be down there.

Latest news, a suspect is in custody.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by Deirius on Tuesday, December 04, 2012 9:50 PM
Assuming the suspect is found guilty I vote we do the same to that person that was done to the deceased.
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Posted by selector on Tuesday, December 04, 2012 11:58 PM

Deirius
Assuming the suspect is found guilty I vote we do the same to that person that was done to the deceased.

Whoa, easy, fella!  I'm pretty sure it was revealed soon afterward that the pusher is mentally ill.  Two wrongs hardly add up to rectitude.

Crandell

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Wednesday, December 05, 2012 7:03 AM

Deirius
Assuming the suspect is found guilty I vote we do the same to that person that was done to the deceased.

It is actually far more traumatic for the motorman than it is for the victim or even for the bystanders.  As much as we talk about grade crossing accidents, there are about 50 to100 incidents a year on NYCT, most admittedly suicides, It is far more personal than a grade crossing accident where a train hits a car. Here the motorman, standing right at the front bulkhead wall with his face inches from the vision glass is inches away from the human victim as his train hits him.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by carnej1 on Wednesday, December 05, 2012 11:24 AM

BroadwayLion

Deirius
Assuming the suspect is found guilty I vote we do the same to that person that was done to the deceased.

It is actually far more traumatic for the motorman than it is for the victim or even for the bystanders.  As much as we talk about grade crossing accidents, there are about 50 to100 incidents a year on NYCT, most admittedly suicides, It is far more personal than a grade crossing accident where a train hits a car. Here the motorman, standing right at the front bulkhead wall with his face inches from the vision glass is inches away from the human victim as his train hits him.

ROAR

PTSD,which I would imagine is not uncommon among Subway employees involved in these type of incidents,is a horrible condition and I hope that the MTA provides support and help to affected employees.

But Lion, You'd rather be crushed by a Train than suffer the Psychological after-effects of witnessing it? Really?

 

The disturbing thing is that from the picture it would seem that bystanders would have had a decent shot at grabbing the victim's arms and pulling him to safety. From the reports I've read there were people standing near where he fell who stood by an watched..

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, December 05, 2012 1:15 PM

carnej1

BroadwayLion

Deirius
Assuming the suspect is found guilty I vote we do the same to that person that was done to the deceased.

It is actually far more traumatic for the motorman than it is for the victim or even for the bystanders.  As much as we talk about grade crossing accidents, there are about 50 to100 incidents a year on NYCT, most admittedly suicides, It is far more personal than a grade crossing accident where a train hits a car. Here the motorman, standing right at the front bulkhead wall with his face inches from the vision glass is inches away from the human victim as his train hits him.

ROAR

PTSD,which I would imagine is not uncommon among Subway employees involved in these type of incidents,is a horrible condition and I hope that the MTA provides support and help to affected employees.

But Lion, You'd rather be crushed by a Train than suffer the Psychological after-effects of witnessing it? Really?

 

The disturbing thing is that from the picture it would seem that bystanders would have had a decent shot at grabbing the victim's arms and pulling him to safety. From the reports I've read there were people standing near where he fell who stood by an watched..

 

The picture suspends the subway train at a fixed point in time - the needed response from bystanders are for actions that are totally outside their 'programmed responses' to situations.  First they have to SEE the situation, after seeing they have to UNDERSTAND the gravity of the situation, then they have to formulate a ACTION PLAN in their mind to remedy the situation - those three processes take time when one does not have a programmed response.  While all these thought processes are taking place the subway train is continuing to move toward the individual at some speed (which, for the sake of argument) 10 MPH which is rough 15 feet per second - the picture shows the subway train to be approximately 50 to 100 feet from the individual.  At 100 feet you have slightly over 6 seconds to formulate your action plan and move to the individual to implement it, if the train was moving faster there would have been less time.  I am certain the vast majority of the people there that saw the incident unfolding were stopped for several seconds in sheer disbelief that what they were actually seeing was REAL.

Regarding the motorman on the subway train - with the history of trains impacting people - either by the decedent's intent or accident - it is not a matter of 'IF' they will kill someone during the performance of their daily duties, it is only a matter of WHEN.  Not that that really makes it any easier, but the eventuality is something that you know or should have known when you accepted the responsibilities of the position.

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Posted by MerrilyWeRollAlong on Thursday, December 06, 2012 12:45 AM

carnej1

BroadwayLion

Deirius
Assuming the suspect is found guilty I vote we do the same to that person that was done to the deceased.

It is actually far more traumatic for the motorman than it is for the victim or even for the bystanders.  As much as we talk about grade crossing accidents, there are about 50 to100 incidents a year on NYCT, most admittedly suicides, It is far more personal than a grade crossing accident where a train hits a car. Here the motorman, standing right at the front bulkhead wall with his face inches from the vision glass is inches away from the human victim as his train hits him.

ROAR

PTSD,which I would imagine is not uncommon among Subway employees involved in these type of incidents,is a horrible condition and I hope that the MTA provides support and help to affected employees.

But Lion, You'd rather be crushed by a Train than suffer the Psychological after-effects of witnessing it? Really?

 

The disturbing thing is that from the picture it would seem that bystanders would have had a decent shot at grabbing the victim's arms and pulling him to safety. From the reports I've read there were people standing near where he fell who stood by an watched..

Speaking as someone who lives in the New York City, when you see two people arguing the way the victim and the attacker were, you move away from it... FAR AWAY from the tussle.  Unfortunately arguments like those two were having become ugly and bloody really fast, particularly in recent years on both the subways and buses.  Hence that is probably why you see bystanders standing clear of the victim on the track in the picture.

Second, not pictured in the photo is the actual attacker who told police that he stuck around to watch the victim die.  With that in mind, you have an awkward situation with rescuing the victim... the attacker could thwart rescue attempts by attacking the good Samaritans resulting in even more harm and death.  While I don't want to make excuses or justify the bystanders' inactions, I would find such a scenario to be paralyzing.

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Posted by TrainManTy on Thursday, December 06, 2012 6:54 PM

Here in Boston we've had a whole bunch of people walk off platforms this year. Not all of them were drunk, some just weren't paying attention. Nobody was hit (although there was one close call) and passerby have always been able to easily pull them back onto the platform.

Tyler

I don't speak for any organizations on this board. All opinions are my own.

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