The December issue has an in-depth 24 hour analysis of this operation Fred Frailey says, " nowhere else in the world does such a place exist".
Now we have some firm concept of why BNSF is so successful with the premium intermodal business.
Not to mention having a huge UPS sort literally next door.
Take the Z train.
The thing that really bothered me about Frailey's article is that the terminal is defining the business plan for the railroad. I acknowledge that the people running Willow Springs do a great job. But...
They seem to only be able to handle loading for:
North Bay (UPS to the San Francisco area)
Stockton
Fresno
San Bernadino
Los Angeles
Phoenix
Denver
Kansas City
Ft. Worth
That's only nine points on the whole ex freakin' Santa Fe. It bothers me to see a railroad run trains past locations with good profit potential and not exploit that potential. It really, really, really bothers me when the railroad does it because a terminal can't handle more destinations. To say that the people of Willow Springs do a great job is true. To say that Willow Springs is inadequate is also true.
Let's take Oklahoma City.
BNSF could handle OK City traiffic on the ZWSPALT8 cited in Frailey's article. But BNSF pulled its intermodal service from OK City - which was one of the original UPS destinations. I understand the reason was to simplify blocking to keep the IM trains on time. That would be a terminal problem.
Now look at the marginal cost of adding 20 or so Oklahoma City bound containers to the ZWSPALT8. For the line haul it's close to zilch. The train does run through Oklahoma City. Putting an extra 20 revenue loads on the train isn't going to require one extra crew member, very little extra dispatching effort, and very little extra diesel fuel. But the marginal revenue would be fantastic. It would pour money to the bottom line.
But the Willow Springs terminal can't handle it, despite great work by the empolyees. It is quite irksome to me to see this business, revenue and profit left on the highway because of terminal problems.
But how do they fix this? How do they handle business to places such as Oklahoma City without screwing up the terminal efficiency? That's a problem. But it has a solution. When BNSF finds the solution they'll find gold.
Does this mean that BNSF does not have an intermodal terminal in OKC? I havent checked to see. Perhaps the 20 trailers simply do not warrent the revenue. Full disclosure...i havent read Fraileys article yet, but am looking forward to it, as this is as close to a UPS article as will be written.
Greyhound, you are as analytical as anyone on this board, so i look forward to a great discussion on this, however, my guess is while there is "business, revenue, and profit left on the highway..." that the "profit" is the missing link. Just a guess, let me read the article, do a little research on BSNF intermodal website and let's chat.
Ed
Could it be that the new terminal (I've forgotten the BNSF name...UP's Global 4 is next to it) can handle most of the destinations, and Willow Springs is dealing with only the ones that make sense from a UPS standpoint?
(I haven't had a chance to catch the article yet, either...maybe my answer is in there.)
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
CShaveRR Could it be that the new terminal (I've forgotten the BNSF name...UP's Global 4 is next to it) can handle most of the destinations, and Willow Springs is dealing with only the ones that make sense from a UPS standpoint?
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
Ken (Greyhound), two comments. My story was how an intermodal yard works. It was not a critique of BNSF's intermodal strategy. That's another story for another time.
But heck, like you say, let's take Oklahoma City. You "understand" the reason OKC's ramp was closed was to keep the intermodal trains on time. I took the trouble to ask, and from a very senior BNSF person comes the answer: OKC was closed because the costs of keeping it open weren't justified by the meager amount of business it got -- namely, some UPS trailers and very little else.
Willow Springs is busy but not maxed out - not even near it. Neither is Corwith, which handles non-expedited domestic intermodal. And neither are the Chicago-Texas intermodal trains. If the JB Hunts and Schneider Nationals of this world demanded service to Oklahoma City, believe me, they'd get it. But they'd probably get it out of Corwith because they don't pay the Z-train rates for their containers.
I hope this is responsive to your post and I'm gratified to have the opportunity to discuss the article with you and others.
Fred Frailey
McLean, Va.
And we're glad to have you stop in here.
BTW-I am a big fan of your work and have been for years
CShaveRR Could it be that the new terminal (I've forgotten the BNSF name...UP's Global 4 is next to it) can handle most of the destinations, and Willow Springs is dealing with only the ones that make sense from a UPS standpoint? (I haven't had a chance to catch the article yet, either...maybe my answer is in there.)
BNSF also has a large intermodal terminal at Corwith, only a couple of miles from Willow Springs.
An "expensive model collector"
To those who haven't read the article, it explains the role of the four intermodal terminals in greater Chicago:
1. Logistics Park Chicago southwest of Joliet is 99.9% 40-foot boat containers from and to Asia, from LA, Long Beach, Oakland, Tacoma, Portland and Seattle.
2. Corwith is 80-90 percent domestic intermodal - the 53-foot boxes as in JB Hunt, Schneider National and all the truckload carriers.
3. Willow Springs is 99% premium-priced expedited intermodal, mostly UPS and the scheduled less-than-truckload carriers, all to former Santa Fe destinations.
4. Cicero is expedited intermodal to the Twin Cities and PNW and also domestic intermodal to the same destinations. Willow Springs and Cicero are NOT "a couple of miles" apart in the Chicago geography, but far enough that it is not feasible to load UPS trailers in Willow Springs from the adjacent UPS sorting facility and take them by rail to Cicero. So UPS drives its trailers between the Willow Springs sorting facility and Cicero.
I appreciate the opportunity to explain these distinctions.
Fred Frailey Ken (Greyhound), two comments. My story was how an intermodal yard works. It was not a critique of BNSF's intermodal strategy. That's another story for another time. But heck, like you say, let's take Oklahoma City. You "understand" the reason OKC's ramp was closed was to keep the intermodal trains on time. I took the trouble to ask, and from a very senior BNSF person comes the answer: OKC was closed because the costs of keeping it open weren't justified by the meager amount of business it got -- namely, some UPS trailers and very little else. Willow Springs is busy but not maxed out - not even near it. Neither is Corwith, which handles non-expedited domestic intermodal. And neither are the Chicago-Texas intermodal trains. If the JB Hunts and Schneider Nationals of this world demanded service to Oklahoma City, believe me, they'd get it. But they'd probably get it out of Corwith because they don't pay the Z-train rates for their containers. I hope this is responsive to your post and I'm gratified to have the opportunity to discuss the article with you and others. Fred Frailey McLean, Va.
First, let me say that I subscribed to Trains in order to read this article. I ceased subscribing a while ago but I would buy individual issues when Mr. Frailey wrote about something interesting to me. Such as the Bakken oil traffic. But the hobby store where I purchased the magazine is now gone. So to read this article I bought a year's electronic subscription.
I don't see what I wrote as being critical. I see what I wrote as an honest, but maybe incorrect, understanding of the facts as presented.
The Willow Springs intermodal terminal operations seem to have been simplified to a significant degree. Heck, they've basically got a shuttle service going between Chicago and Denver. The train comes in from Denver, they strip it, reload the same cars for Denver, and it's gone. That's great for terminal efficiency.
Most of the other trains are single destination loading. That greatly simplifies the terminal operation, but it precludes serving other destinations, such as Oklahoma City. Out of Willow Springs the BNSF only runs trains or blocks to nine destinations. And five of those are in California. There is a significant volume of freight originating and terminating at points between Chicago and California. And the BNSF runs its trains right past that freight.
They're not doing this because they're less than capable people. I reason they're doing so because they have to keep terminals such as Willow Springs fluid and adding more blocks with more destinations to the terminals' work load would complicate things to the point where service would be degraded.
Willow Springs and ZWSPALT may not be maxed out in terms of trailers or containers they can handle. But, from what I comprehend, Willow Springs may be nearly maxed out with respect to the number of destinations it can serve. There's more than one element to terminal capacity, and the number of blocks to be made is an important element.
The fact that ZWSPALT is running below capacity is critical here. The train (and the railroad) has a declining average cost curve with the marginal cost curve below the average cost curve. (Any real economist can jump in here. The curves will flatten out and converge as the train approches capacity.) If you can add loads to the train it will reduce the average cost per load. If the existing loads continue to move at an unchanged price their profitability increases as additional loads are added to the train.
The low marginal cost of adding loads to the train is also critical. You can sell the OK City loads cheaply since the aditional cost of moving them on a below capacity train is quite low. And remember, they bring the average cost down which will increase the profitability of the Ft. Worth loads.
As to there being little business out of, or in to, Oklahoma City....
It may be true that the BNSF had sparse business at that terminal, but it may also be irrelevant. It depends on the market share. Oklahoma City has a SMA population of 1.28 million people. Those people buy shoes, diapers, canned soup, etc. It's all gotta' come from somewhere. If BNSF wasn't getting a good share of the loads in or out they could have fixed that instead of exiting the market. It's just my opinion, but it seems they're leaving money on the table. They may have a good reason for doing so, but it seems they're doing so.
As to waiting for JB Hunt or Schneider take the lead in asking for Oklahoma City service, that's letting another guy control your operation.
I'm not trying to criticize anyone. I'm just stating what I see. And I see that the need to simplify terminal operations has determined what the railroad can haul.
I'm eager to see how the N. Baltimore operation works out for CSX. Such a thing might be a solution. That type of facility would allow terminals such as WS to continue at the present efficient pace while allowing the containers to be sorted to additional destinations on down the line. Anybody know how N. Baltimore is working out? Is it delaying freight or making things better?
Ken Strawbridge
Antioch, IL
Ken, on behalf of the publisher of Trains, thank you for subscribing! It enables Trains to pay me the big bucks. So if ever we meet, I'll buy you the first beer.
But you are being critical of BNSF intermodal marketing even if you say you are not. You look at a metro area with 1.25 million people and say (as I have said to myself), where is BNSF? I live in a metro area (Washington DC) with 5.6 million people and it doesn't have an intermodal ramp. Nada! Everything comes to the big box stores from distribution centers two or three states away, served by intermodal ramps in Harrisburg and other locales in Pennsylvania. I suspect that if you peeled back the layers of the onion, you would find few regional distribution centers for the big retailers in Oklahoma City. Believe me, Ken, BNSF doesn't have to explain to JB Hunt or Schneider or its portfolio of active truckload carrier customers that Oklahoma City is there if enough of them will provide the volume. And it is nothing for Willow Springs to add an OKC block because they did it before. For whatever reason, the demand is not there. And once again, I need to remind you that except for UPS (which now gets to OKC over the road from Kansas City) and the LTL carriers, the Oklahoma City traffic would originate in Corwith. Expedited is a small portion of the total intermodal pie.
What the Transcon and the rest of the former Santa Fe lack is population centers. West of KC to LA there is Albuquerque and Phoenix, which BNSF serves dutifully. BNSF is competitive to Dallas-Fort Worth, which is the regional distributional center. It is not really competitive with UP between Chicago and Houston, which is why it has had problems extending its Chicago intermodal trains south of DFW.
But look, I am nearing the limits of my knowledge of BNSF intermodal strategies. I know what I know and happily share what I know with you, but there is a lot that I do not. I will stand down and let you have the last word. Thank you for your patience.
pppfffft.
I'm still waiting for an intermodal here....
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Read the article last night and it is what I read Trains for also. Unfortunately those types of articles appear only about 4-6 times a year. The article was a great look at how a terminal operates.
Many times, as Fred indicated, I have glanced down from the mile long bridge (Tollroad 294) and wondered how it operates. Fred, thanks for the view from the ground.
Greyhound, I think the issue isnt Willow Springs, it is the cost associated with maintaining a terminal in OKC and the lack of volume there. Just a guess, because I am unfamiliar with OKC, but regional distribution centers are probably located in Kansas City and DFtW areas. The regional DCs are what pulls in the high volumes and warrent the terminal investment. Plus, my guess is that the flow of freight to the region is coming from the West Coast (import from Asia). Thus those container will move directly from Long Beach to DFtW or KC for break bulk and final distribution.
Finally, OKC is an energy center. I base this on a conversation with a customer a week ago. The economy there is booming and it is based on energy (primarily oil and gas production/distribution). My guess is there is not a heavy reliance on intermodal for support of that industry....just a guess.
What is the run time for BNSF from Willow Springs to Alliance? I am speaking about the time from the arrival of the last UPS load to the time the last load is unloaded in Alliance. The reason I ask is, I think the time for the train is likely 36 hours. It can't make it in 12 hours, and if that is the case then UPS doesn't need the loads until roughly 24 hours later. Of course you need some padding too. It will get priority, but until it gets to southern Kansas it shares the track with Amtrak and other Z-trains.
Beaulieu, cutoff Willow Springs until arrival Alliance (Fort Worth) is approximately 25 hours. And the primary customer for both sections of this train is United Parcel Service. Fred Frailey
I do not understand the confusion regarding intermodal service to locations other than those served by the premium Z trains.
Willow Springs is created to provide the service for which customers are willing to pay a premium price. The other Chicago terminals (Corwith - Joliet) handle the regular intermodal loads. So everyone has service fom Chicago.
BNSF has executives recruited from the the trucking sector. They have maintained and enhanced an excellent relationships with trucking companies, and also with the UPS's and Fed/X's. Those entities/customers have their own logistical planning. As Fred pointed out above, if they had the business that necessitated and economically justified additional ramp locations it would be communicated to BNSF.
UPS's- Fed/X's and the trucking companies also have costs to control and service to provide. It appears that the existing service locations are the result of collaborative communications with their customers and with BNSF.
Fred:You mentioned there are 4 UPS sorts during the day, mentioning the 330am - 750am window. This one makes sense, in order to make the morning deliveries. What are the other times? Obviously one would be 600pm - 1000pm or similar time.
Is there a second delivery window? Does the CACH sort for other terminals, or does it sort for terminals and local deliveries?
Ed (173), the sorts (pasted directly from my notes) are:
Day 9 am to 2:50 pm We unload the LA train for that, Phoenix, first Alliance and NS
Twilight: 7 pm to 9 pm second Alliance, Denver and North Bay
Night: 10 pm-130 am inbound KCK, the second North Bay and Albuquerque
Sunrise: 3:30 am to 750 am It must be crosstown and over the road stuff because we don’t contribute much to it.
The speaker is the hub manager Latrice.
Now I have a question for you: I'm weary of trying to guess where MP 173 is. My hunch was Galesburg, but MP 173 on the Chilli is in Yost Ill., which I just discovered is almost uninhabited. So drop us some hints.
MP173 Is there a second delivery window? Does the CACH sort for other terminals, or does it sort for terminals and local deliveries? Ed
Ed, I ship a fair amount of long distance stuff via UPS Ground and am in NW Wisconsin. My shipments for everywhere but the Northern Tier of states west of the Great Lakes will go via Cache (Hodgkins, IL). They go first to the local distribution center at Rice Lake, WI, then to Milwaukee, and then to Cache. From there they fan out. I don't believe Cache does sorting for local Chicago distribution as I remember from watching my shipments.
CNSFI worked in the Santa Fe marketing group prior to the merger. Even back then, we were interested in closing Oklahoma City and it had nothing to do with Willow Springs - or in keeping the Chicago-Texas trains that served it on schedule. The big problem was that all the traffic was inbound. Outbound traffic to anywhere on the system was minimal, which meant we wound up hauling most of the inbound trailers back to Chicago empty. At the time of the merger, we were still handling UPS into OKC, out of deference for the overall relationship and their desire that we continue the service. Presumably things have changed since then. But a few years earlier, in the late '80's and early '90's, we handled much more OKC intermodal business. Some of it was import traffic which had to make an awkward connection from Texas or Kansas City trains, and a bit of it may have been consumer goods, but apart from UPS it was mostly auto parts for the former GM assembly operation. We even had a Chicago-OKC train, 165 I believe, which handled a mix of auto parts boxcars and TOFC (the UPS traffic rode a higher priority train, 185 or 195). Even before the plant closed, we got out of that business, because, again, it was all inbound. We simply could not get outbound loads, and you just can't make money that way.
Thank you. That clears a lot up.
I guess I had some bad information. I remember hearing that the BNSF had a need to simplify their network in order to improve on time performance. This meant they had to prioritize lanes and eliminate some of them. It was my understanding that Oklahoma City was "prioritized" out of business to make terminal space available for longer haul loads in a simplified terminal operation.
I guess what I heared was wrong. Thank you for the correction.
Fred:I havent paid much attention to this thread lately. Thanks for the "sort times".
MP 173 is obviously based on Milepost 173. For me it refers to milepost 173 on the Peoria - Evansville sub of the old Illinois Central. I grew up in a very small town between Olney and Newton Il. My hometown of Dundas, Il was actually on MP172, but the MP 173 sign was a couple hundred yards from our house.
I walked by that sign hundreds of times as a kid and adult, the railroad tracks back then were a path for people who wanted to hike, hunt, pick mushrooms, etc.
Sadly the IC line is gone.
Cach is a sort facility only. There are no delivery vehicles loaded there, everything arrives and leaves in trailers.
I am a UPS employee and have learned more about the UPS distribution system in Trains than from UPS.
MP173Read the article last night and it is what I read Trains for . . . Unfortunately those types of articles appear only about 4-6 times a year. The article was a great look at how a terminal operates.
That was a great article! I only had a chance to read it myself last night.
With all this modern technology like Mi-Jack cranes, computers, and radio for up to the minute communication, it is amazing how there is still so much that is the "same as it ever was" for the last 170 years; turning empties into loads. Sort of like getting the right empty "grain boxes" in front of the right elevators, on the back track.
TRAINS, please keep on publishing articles like this.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
Fred:
As usual a good and interesting read with clear and substantive writing.
Your “comment” about UP and CSX was a bit snarky.
I would expect that type of cheap shot from our present day newspapers and their made to order sarcastic fourteen year old writer and editors!
Pasadena Bound:
What, I'm not supposed to have opinions? I'm not supposed to make your blood pressure rise? If I cannot do those things, what good am I?
Tee hee. Let's calm down. I do not think very much of the corporate cultures of Union Pacific and CSX, you might surmise. And you would be correct. I do not think either railroad capable to running a Willow Springs. That is what I think, and there you have it.
Your turn.
Regards (really!),
Fred
Iron Eagle, this dialogue has been instructive to me. Another black hole is South Florida. Truckers hate to send their tractor-trailers 350 miles south into the state. It is totally unproductive. The drivers fight their way down I-95 and then contend with the traffic nightmare and there is nothing to backhaul because South Florida, like Oklahoma City, produces nothing. This may account for the success of Florida East Coast on a very short 350-mile route. Truckers do better giving southbound loads to FEC at Jax, letting FEC dray the trailers at the other end and send them back empty, while the tractors and drivers backhaul out of Savannah.
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