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Cat's whiskers!

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Posted by locomutt on Tuesday, September 7, 2004 12:54 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Kozzie

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

Got it. Model railroading does a lot of that, i.e., invent labels for things in the prototype world so it can discriminate between things visually. Model railroading has an almost entirely visual relationship to the object, whereas real railroading has an almost entirely functional relationship to the object. The epitome of this are the "Phase" descriptions model railroaders apply to GP9s, GP30s, etc., which have zero correlation to anything that matters to a railroad, which couldn't care less if there are two small grills on one GP9 and one big one on another. The flip side of that is that the differences that matter to railroaders are impossible for modelers to capture -- there's no way you can effectively model automatic transistion vs. manual, or a larger aux generator in a GP9, or a EM2000 control vs. the static card controls, or even more simply, a D27 traction motor vs. a D77: they're in the same case.

I don't have any problem with model railroaders inventing these labels if it makes sense for them, but I think they might want to be more careful with it. At best, taking the model railroad language into the real railroad world results in some hilariously incoherent conversations -- like this one! I suggest that the more that model railroaders invent their own language, the more they will isolate themselves from the railroad objects they are modeling, and the less they will understand of it.


Yes..and confuse poor folk like me who think it's a valid name from part of e.g. Santa Fe's history ...anyway., it's been an interesting thread all the same[:)]

Dave




It's interesting that you quote about the GP-9s. I have 3 of them in the works right now,
and have done some research on GP-9,&7s and found that a GP-7 has 3-4 louveres,
under the cab,wheree a GP-9 has 1,or two.
It Was and will continue to be an interesting thread.[:)]
Thanks for starting it.[:)]

Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!!

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Posted by Kozzie on Tuesday, September 7, 2004 12:48 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt

Kozzie,
Don't feel bad about that post. Sometimes the manufactors get the best of us.
I remember "several" years ago that a certain maker did a C&O car,swore by
everything that it was correct,down to the last detail. Well turns out it wasn't.
And "I" have still never heard that phrase for that paint scheme for the AT&SF.

You win some,you lose some,some you just learn from.[:)]



Yes Walt - too true - certainly learned something here heh heh.[:)][;)]
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Posted by locomutt on Tuesday, September 7, 2004 12:41 AM
Kozzie,
Don't feel bad about that post. Sometimes the manufactors get the best of us.
I remember "several" years ago that a certain maker did a C&O car,swore by
everything that it was correct,down to the last detail. Well turns out it wasn't.
And "I" have still never heard that phrase for that paint scheme for the AT&SF.

You win some,you lose some,some you just learn from.[:)]

Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!!

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Posted by Kozzie on Sunday, September 5, 2004 7:27 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

Got it. Model railroading does a lot of that, i.e., invent labels for things in the prototype world so it can discriminate between things visually. Model railroading has an almost entirely visual relationship to the object, whereas real railroading has an almost entirely functional relationship to the object. The epitome of this are the "Phase" descriptions model railroaders apply to GP9s, GP30s, etc., which have zero correlation to anything that matters to a railroad, which couldn't care less if there are two small grills on one GP9 and one big one on another. The flip side of that is that the differences that matter to railroaders are impossible for modelers to capture -- there's no way you can effectively model automatic transistion vs. manual, or a larger aux generator in a GP9, or a EM2000 control vs. the static card controls, or even more simply, a D27 traction motor vs. a D77: they're in the same case.

I don't have any problem with model railroaders inventing these labels if it makes sense for them, but I think they might want to be more careful with it. At best, taking the model railroad language into the real railroad world results in some hilariously incoherent conversations -- like this one! I suggest that the more that model railroaders invent their own language, the more they will isolate themselves from the railroad objects they are modeling, and the less they will understand of it.


Yes..and confuse poor folk like me who think it's a valid name from part of e.g. Santa Fe's history ...anyway., it's been an interesting thread all the same[:)]

Dave

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Posted by Kozzie on Sunday, September 5, 2004 6:44 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

No. It's Santa Fe. It way predates Athearn.


[;)] [:)] Mark - I was referring to the term "Cat Whisker" used by Athearn in their ad, not the actual striped colour scheme heh heh [;)] [:)]

Dave [:)][;)]
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Posted by Kozzie on Sunday, September 5, 2004 5:40 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

Chico is a cartoon character of a Navajo boy that figured in Santa Fe advertising in the 1950s and 60s -- perhaps earlier. He'd appear doing things like making a sand painting saying "Santa Fe" as a freight train goes by in the background. Type chico and "santa fe" into google on the IMAGES link and it will show you about 30 different versions.

"Cat's Whiskers" is not a paint-scheme name I have ever heard of in 30 years. I groan at the thought of yet another invented name for something that already has one.


Mark and mudchicken, maybe Atheran dreamed it up for their advertisement????

Dave
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Posted by Kozzie on Sunday, September 5, 2004 5:19 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

I worked on ATSF and NEVER heard the freight scheme being referred to as Cats Whiskers ...and Kozzie dude - Have you ever seen the Black/White/Silver or Black/White/Orange striped schemes that Chico initially applied to his diesels (complete with white and blue box herald?)???? (EMD EA's 1 & 1A "Amos & Andy" had all 4 variations over their careers)


[:)]Hey Mudchicken, [:I] who do you mean when you say Chico? [:I][:I]

If you want to see the name of the colour scheme in print, look in the Aug 04 issue of MR mag. [;)]
Turn to page 7, there's a full page ad by Athearn about their Genesis F units.

Dave[;)] [:)]

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Posted by mudchicken on Friday, September 3, 2004 11:23 AM
I worked on ATSF and NEVER heard the freight scheme being referred to as Cats Whiskers ...and Kozzie dude - Have you ever seen the Black/White/Silver or Black/White/Orange striped schemes that Chico initially applied to his diesels (complete with white and blue box herald?)???? (EMD EA's 1 & 1A "Amos & Andy" had all 4 variations over their careers)
Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by Modelcar on Friday, September 3, 2004 8:46 AM
....Outback restaurant steaks do have a different taste but I have no idea where they come from...and if any connection to down under...Here in Muncie we have a restaurant at our airport that serves "Australian Sirloin" steaks and they have a different taste and I've tried them many times but again have no idea if there is any connection to Australia. The airport facility is not a chain franchise...it is local.

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Posted by M636C on Friday, September 3, 2004 6:14 AM
Sorry, I'd forgotten about the substitution of the Cigar Band stripes! I think all freight F3s and F7s had the so called cat's whiskers, but the few freight F9s may have been built with the "Cigar Band". I think all the blue and yellow cab units did get "Cigar bands", including the FTs.

Only hood units were painted black and silver, no cab units, except the odd 2610, ex passenger unit 10, was black and silver.

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Posted by Mookie on Friday, September 3, 2004 6:04 AM
You brave souls that are into twisting Mookie's tail had better be ready to face the other end of the tail......

Mookie

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Posted by Kozzie on Thursday, September 2, 2004 6:17 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by drephpe

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Well,
I was gonna say "Come on down", but I guess it would be "Come on up" for you...
Anytime you make it to Texas...[:D]

Ed


Dave--

That goes for us too. Come on up and we'll all go twist Mookie's tail![}:)][}:)][}:)]

By the way, Outback is hardly Aussie.[(-D] But the food is generally OK.


[:D] Twisting mookie's tail - [:)][:p] heh heh - as good a reason as any to come "up over' if I could manage it...maybe one day...

Dave
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Posted by SSW9389 on Thursday, September 2, 2004 6:12 PM
Negative M636C. The Cat Whisker scheme was replaced with the Cigar Band paint scheme and a few 13D Blue F units were done in the late 1950s as a cost experiment. The yellow warbonnet you refer to did not arrive until 1972. Cat whiskers was last applied in 1951 as stated previously.

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

I've never heard the scheme called "cat's whiskers", but it was used on all freight F units when new, until replaced on some units with the yellow warbonnet scheme. It had three yellow horizontal stripes on the nose, either side of a vertical yellow band. This scheme, with maroon substituted for blue, was used in Australia for the New South Wales railways for cab units, and a single Victorian S class, 313, is currently painted in this scheme, with suitably altered lettering for "Steamrail Victoria" the current owners.

Peter
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, September 2, 2004 6:09 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Well,
I was gonna say "Come on down", but I guess it would be "Come on up" for you...
Anytime you make it to Texas...[:D]

Ed


Dave--

That goes for us too. Come on up and we'll all go twist Mookie's tail![}:)][}:)][}:)]

By the way, Outback is hardly Aussie.[(-D] But the food is generally OK.
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Posted by Kozzie on Thursday, September 2, 2004 5:19 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

I've never heard the scheme called "cat's whiskers", but it was used on all freight F units when new, until replaced on some units with the yellow warbonnet scheme. It had three yellow horizontal stripes on the nose, either side of a vertical yellow band. This scheme, with maroon substituted for blue, was used in Australia for the New South Wales railways for cab units, and a single Victorian S class, 313, is currently painted in this scheme, with suitably altered lettering for "Steamrail Victoria" the current owners.

Peter


Well, I definitely didn't make it up ha ha! I saw it in the Aug 04 issue of MR mag.
If you turn to page 7, there's a full page ad by Athearn about their Genesis F units.

Nine different colour schemes are illustrated. The top middle one is Santa Fe, in a very attractive blue and yellow, [:)] and underneath the picture, they refer to Cat Whisker as a description of the livery. [;)] (I made a slight error in saying Cat's Whiskers - there's no plural)

That's why I started this thread, [;)] because I had never seen it before...a good name though isn't it? [;)][:)]

Dave [;)]
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Posted by espeefoamer on Thursday, September 2, 2004 2:21 PM
I had never heard this scheme called cats whiskers.I had heard it called zebra stripes.In the latest issue of Warbonnet,it states in an article about Santa Fes SD24s, that the first order of these locos , along with the first order of RSD15s,was delivered in the black and silver scheme.
These were the last locos recieved before the ATSF switched to blue and yellow.
Ride Amtrak. Cats Rule, Dogs Drool.
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Posted by Junctionfan on Thursday, September 2, 2004 9:00 AM
Does its horn meow? If it sees another train does it hiss? Does it mark territory?
Andrew
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Posted by locomutt on Thursday, September 2, 2004 8:44 AM
M636C,thank you;I knew of what they called "wings" but had never heard of the other[:)]

Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!!

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Posted by M636C on Thursday, September 2, 2004 8:41 AM
I've never heard the scheme called "cat's whiskers", but it was used on all freight F units when new, until replaced on some units with the yellow warbonnet scheme. It had three yellow horizontal stripes on the nose, either side of a vertical yellow band. This scheme, with maroon substituted for blue, was used in Australia for the New South Wales railways for cab units, and a single Victorian S class, 313, is currently painted in this scheme, with suitably altered lettering for "Steamrail Victoria" the current owners.

Peter
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Posted by locomutt on Thursday, September 2, 2004 8:14 AM
Okay,I've modeled for over 40 years,and have really never heard of the paint
scheme called"cat whiskers",I'm very familiar with the "warbonnet".
So please; someone enlighten me.[:)]

Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!!

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Posted by SSW9389 on Thursday, September 2, 2004 8:03 AM
Since the first FT units weren't built until after World War Two started the cat whisker paint scheme was not used pre WWII. The Cat Whisker scheme was used on Santa Fe freight F units from late 1940 to 1951. The Cat Whisker paint was applied to the FTs, the freight F3s and those freight F7s delivered up to 1951.

True there were some FT units painted in the passenger warbonnet scheme from 1946 to 1953. A total of 11 four unit sets of FTs were painted in passenger warbonnet colors out of a fleet of 320 units.


QUOTE: Originally posted by UPTRAIN

It was used in pre WWII if I'm not mistaken on FT units used for freight and maybe passenger. These units were later painted into the more classically know warbonnet scheme. I have the first issue ever of classic trains magazine somewhere around here that talked about the cat whisker locomotives. Really, when I saw the name of this topic, I wasn't sure if you were talking about the pre-WB cat whiskers, or the catFISH whiskers of NS units [:D].
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Posted by cherokee woman on Thursday, September 2, 2004 6:12 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Kozzie

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

You know,
She has been know to eat at "The Outback" every once in a while....


"The Outback" sounds like an Ozzie style restaurant...wonder how genuine it is....hmmmm...one day I might get the opportunity to try it out...and pester some of you lot at closer range heh heh.....[;)]


Dave [:)]


Kozzie Dave, come on "up" to Louisville, we have several Outback restraurants
here. We've never been, but if you come for a visit, we'll go there with you to
try it out. Have been wanting to try one of those "bloomin' onions"!!
Angel cherokee woman "O'Toole's law: Murphy was an optimist."
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Posted by Mookie on Thursday, September 2, 2004 5:53 AM
Keepa you hands off my tail!

Chessie had it right! Should do more of that in this enlightened day and age!

Mookie

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Posted by edblysard on Thursday, September 2, 2004 5:19 AM
Well,
I was gonna say "Come on down", but I guess it would be "Come on up" for you...
Anytime you make it to Texas...[:D]

Ed

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Posted by Kozzie on Thursday, September 2, 2004 12:20 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

You know,
She has been know to eat at "The Outback" every once in a while....


"The Outback" sounds like an Ozzie style restaurant...wonder how genuine it is....hmmmm...one day I might get the opportunity to try it out...and pester some of you lot at closer range heh heh.....[;)]


Dave [:)]
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Posted by edblysard on Thursday, September 2, 2004 12:02 AM
You know,
She has been know to eat at "The Outback" every once in a while....

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Posted by Kozzie on Wednesday, September 1, 2004 11:13 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

First though was you had a new photo of Mookie!

Course, now you have to twist her tail a little...

Ed[:D]


Twist Mookie's tail? Never! [:)]
Unless, of course, heh heh, [(-D] one is an adreniline junkie [(-D] heh heh

Dave
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Posted by edblysard on Wednesday, September 1, 2004 10:44 PM
First though was you had a new photo of Mookie!

Course, now you have to twist her tail a little...

Ed[:D]

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Posted by Kozzie on Wednesday, September 1, 2004 10:25 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by UPTRAIN

It was used in pre WWII if I'm not mistaken on FT units used for freight and maybe passenger. These units were later painted into the more classically know warbonnet scheme. I have the first issue ever of classic trains magazine somewhere around here that talked about the cat whisker locomotives. Really, when I saw the name of this topic, I wasn't sure if you were talking about the pre-WB cat whiskers, or the catFISH whiskers of NS units [:D].


Zach, thnaks for the info - I hadn't thought about NS...I suppose I just think of the thoroughbred horse rearing up when I read about NS

Dave.

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