Login
or
Register
Home
»
Trains Magazine
»
Forums
»
General Discussion
»
The Controversy of AT&SF Locomotive #3463
Edit topic
Updated your discussion topic below.
Subject
Enter a subject for your topic. Maximum 150 characters.
Post Body
Enter your post below.
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"><span style="font-size: small;">There has been a lot of press about this, so maybe most of you are familiar with it.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>In 1956, the AT&SF donated steam locomotive #3463 to the city of Topeka, KS.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The locomotive was placed on display on property in Topeka owned by Shawnee County, and it has been sitting there ever since.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>This is a relatively modern 4-6-4 weighing 206 tons.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"><span style="font-size: small;"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"><span style="font-size: small;">The following information is according to my understanding from talking to some people in Topeka who are familiar with the story of this locomotive.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I do not guarantee the accuracy of the following information, but believe it to be correct to the best of my knowledge.</span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"><span style="font-size: small;"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"><span style="font-size: small;">By the early 1990s, the locomotive had become weathered and needed cosmetic maintenance, which was undertaken at that time by a group of volunteers.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Sometime before or during this work, that work group or a part of it claims to have acquired ownership of the locomotive.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Subsequently, that group acquired the depot from Union Pacific and changed their name to the Great Overland Station.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Then the GOS stopped their members and other volunteers from continuing the restoration work, citing a fear of liability.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"><span style="font-size: small;"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"><span style="font-size: small;">A couple months ago, it was reported that a Minneapolis group called; the <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Coalition For Sustainable Rail</span> has acquired the AT&SF locomotive as a gift from the Great Overland Station.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The intent of CSR is to bring the locomotive to Minneapolis, redesign it with many modern upgrades, and to rebuild the locomotive with those modern features.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Some people oppose this because the original historic locomotive will be destroyed in this upgrade.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Other people support it because they see the upgrade as restoring a locomotive said to have been rusting away in Topeka. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The CSR group says the original locomotive will not be destroyed because their modernization work will be reversible.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"><span style="font-size: small;"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"><span style="font-size: small;">From what I understand, the “rusting away” charge is highly exaggerated, apparently to justify giving the locomotive to CSR.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>The engine is somewhat disassembled and was in the process of repainting when work was suspended several years ago, so it does appear disheveled.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But the basic machine is actually in relatively good condition for a park display locomotive.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>So it really was not necessary to get rid of the locomotive in order to prevent it from rusting away.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"><span style="font-size: small;"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"><span style="font-size: small;">And regarding the belief that CRS will rescue the locomotive by “restoring” it, one only has to read their entire plan to realize that the so-called restored #3463 will be an entirely new and different locomotive.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Even CRS says that the modernized locomotive will bear only the most fundamental resemblance to the present #3463.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>They refer to the existing locomotive as a “test bed” for the new, experimental locomotive.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Their main objective is to create a carbon neutral locomotive that can be used as a prototype for a whole new generation of steam locomotives to replace diesels in modern railroad applications.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>This new genre of locomotive will burn torrefied biomass fuel.</span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"><span style="font-size: small;"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"><span style="font-size: small;">The CRS group also intends to set a 130 mph speed record with the modernized locomotive.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"><span style="font-size: small;"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"><span style="font-size: small;">I have spoken to someone in Topeka who was involved with the original donation from the AT&SF.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>He says there are several people in town who were involved with the AT&SF at that time, and most of them are not even aware of the fact that the locomotive has been given away.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Many of the citizens of Topeka are not aware of the giveaway either.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>There was no popular outcry demanding to get rid of the locomotive because of it being an eyesore, as some have suggested.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>This giveaway was done very quietly with little, if any, advance notification.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"><span style="font-size: small;"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"><span style="font-size: small;">It seems clear that the railroad donated the locomotive to the city, even if no record exists today.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>But what is not evident at all is how GOS assumed the right to give the locomotive to someone else who will take it away from its public display and use it to build something else.</span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"><span style="font-size: small;"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"><span style="font-size: small;">My inquiry has shown that GOS is unable provide documentation that they had the right to give the locomotive away.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Certainly the AT&SF did not donate the locomotive to GOS, because GOS did not exist at the time of the 1956 donation from the AT&SF. </span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"><span style="font-size: small;"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"><span style="font-size: small;">So, this presents an interesting conundrum shaping up for a possible tug of war over a locomotive whose ownership cannot be formally verified.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></span></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;"><span style="font-size: small;"> <o:p></o:p></span></span></span></p>
Tags (Optional)
Tags are keywords that get attached to your post. They are used to categorize your submission and make it easier to search for. To add tags to your post type a tag into the box below and click the "Add Tag" button.
Add Tag
E-mail Subscribe
Check the box below if you want to receive e-mail notifications when replies are made to this thread.
Receive notifications
Update Discussion Topic
Join our Community!
Our community is
FREE
to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Login »
Register »
Search the Community
Newsletter Sign-Up
By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our
privacy policy
More great sites from Kalmbach Media
Terms Of Use
|
Privacy Policy
|
Copyright Policy