New East Coast Crude Oil train

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New East Coast Crude Oil train

  • CP will begin running a new Crude Oil train from Harvey, ND to somewhere in the Harrisburg, PA area starting in a few weeks. The cars will be loaded in two cuts at a loading point on the New Town branch, and then be brought to Harvey to be combined and run as a solid train to the East. It is tentatively scheduled to be numbered as #614 loaded, and #615 for the returning empties. Routing is planned to be via Chicago, Detroit, Buffalo, Binghamton, and the Sunbury line.

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  • CP tracks or rights all the way ?  I believe CP owns the ex-D&H track from Binghamton to Harrisburg (the PRR Sunbury - Wilkes-Barre line and ex-DL&W line) - and has trackage rights over NS' Southern Tier Line from Buffalo to Binghamton.  CP has its own tracks from ND to Chicago, and from Detroit to Buffalo.  But how will it get from Chicago to Detroit ?  Rights over NS, CSX, CN, or ?

    See CP's system map at:  http://www.cpr.ca/en/our-network-and-facilities/Pages/default.aspx

    - Paul North.   

    "This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
  • The 2011 Refinery Capacity Report does not list any refineries near Harrisburg. The trains must be going to a terminal with the oil finishing its journal by pipeline, or Hershey's is coming out with a new candy bar flavor (gives a new meaning to sweet crude).Dinner

  • I was wondering about that aspect of this move, too . . . and concluded much the same.  Pipeline to northern New Jersey or Delaware makes sense - are there any refineries in the Baltimore area ? 

    Or, perhaps it'll continue by rail to the Philadelphia area, where there are several recently closed refineries ?  But CP also has trackage rights to there, as well as to North Jersey ? 

    And just a little past Buffalo is Pennsylvania's 'oil patch' around Warren, Titusville, Oil City, and Bradford, which still has several operating refineries that are already set-up to process 'sweet crude' - think of Pennzoil and Quaker State, among others - so why not to there too, or instead ?

    - Paul North.   

    "This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
  • Paul:

            I's been a while since I was up there, but was there not a Refinery at Philly, just south of the Whitman Br,?   I seem to remember it was at some point a SONOCO(?) operation?

    Sam

     

     


     

  • Paul_D_North_Jr

    ...

    And just a little past Buffalo is Pennsylvania's 'oil patch' around Warren, Titusville, Oil City, and Bradford, which still has several operating refineries that are already set-up to process 'sweet crude' - think of Pennzoil and Quaker State, among others - so why not to there too, or instead ?

    - Paul North.   

    My guess is that those in-field refineries are built and sized to handle production from local wells, and might have a hard time handling a unit train.  Although, sometimes a local refinery will grow to handle outside crude.  The larger refineries along tidewater were built to get their crude from pipelines or tanker, and could handle large deliveries.

  • Speculation on another forum has the train running to the re-opened PBF Energy Partners refinery at Delaware City, DE.

  • Thanks - that would be a devious winding route through eastern Pennsylvania/ northeastern Maryland/ northern Delaware from Harrisburg to there, though, no matter which line they use. 

    I've lost track of the name changes for that refinery, and the others further upriver near Philadelphia that Sam mentioned - they seem to reshuffle owners about every 5 years or so.  I believe the one at Delaware City started out as Getty, then Texaco when I knew it (mid-1980's), then Chevron and Valero, if I'm not mistaken [EDITED per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware_City_Refinery ] Star (Saudi Aramco), Motiva (Star + Shell), Premcor, Valero, and now PBF (see what I mean ? "Need a scorecard to tell the players" !).  

    A little north were both BP and Sunoco at Marcus Hook, PA, and then Gulf and Arco, both in South Philadelphia.  There were also 1 or 2 across the Delaware River in New Jersey, but I can't recall their names or provenance right now. 

    - Paul North.   

    P.S. - See this article from last fall for a summary of the NorthEast US refineries (Trainer, PA is just northeast of Marcus Hook - they really run together, and the one at Trainer used to be the BP refinery). - PDN.

    http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/on-energy/2011/10/26/east-coast-oil-infrastructure-remains-vulnerable 

    "This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
  • According to the 2011 Refinery Capacity Report, the Pennsylvania refineries are as follows.

    American Refining Group, Bradford, 10,000 BPCD

    United Refining Company, Warren, 65,000 BPCD

    ConocoPhillips Company, Trainer, 185,000 BPCD

    Sunoco, Inc., Marcus Hook, 178,000 BPCD

    Sunoco, Inc., Philadelphia, 335,000 BPCD

    There used to be a refinery in Rouseville, PA. It shutdown in June 2000.

    There are two refineries in Paulsboro, NJ.

    Nustar Asphalt Refining, 70,000 BPCD (Idle)

    Palusboro Refining Company, 160,000 BPCD

    There used to be a Sunoco Refinery in Westville, NJ (145,000). It shut down about 2 years ago.

  • ericsp

    According to the 2011 Refinery Capacity Report, the Pennsylvania refineries are as follows.

    ...

    There used to be a refinery in Rouseville, PA. It shutdown in June 2000...

    That would have been the Pennzoil refinery near Oil City.  Sorry to see the refinery, where it all started, close down.

  • beaulieu

    Speculation on another forum has the train running to the re-opened PBF Energy Partners refinery at Delaware City, DE.

    My brother is a Chem Eng with a consulting firm that deals with the refiners along the Delaware.  He says, "Sunoco Logistics is railing the crude from the Dakotas to feed the Philly refinery."  So it would appear to be a hand-off to NS in Harrisburg.

    Jeff RCT&HS 1628 Modeling Doylestown to the Terminal, if only in my head!
  • Correct. NS brought the crude oil into southern New Jersey to be stored in Sunoco's Eagle Point  plant tanks in Westville.

     

  • SeashoreLines

    Correct. NS brought the crude oil into southern New Jersey to be stored in Sunoco's Eagle Point  plant tanks in Westville.

    The Crude Oil going to Eagle Point is coming off the BNSF, and is not the CP traffic that I was talking about. The first CP train hasn't run yet.

  • A more direct route would be Buffalo to Emporium via the WNYP's former Pennsy line over Keating Summit. WNYP's Alcos could be used in pusher service to boost the train over the top. Having recently lost most of their coal traffic, WNYP could use the new business on their north-south line.