Mr. Hemphill, CN bashing, & anecdotal truth?

[tree68]

Unlike foresight, hindsight is usually 20-20. Not always, though.

[daveklepper]

No operation or business or human being is perfect, and I think the answeres indicate that the CN is not sacrificing physical assetts to show false profits and that the magagement and the railroad will be around for a long time to come.

[Anonymous]

One thing is that CN likes to buy out the shortlines when they want to have a chance at making money. Like when CN bought out the Wisconsin Central (most regional) CN promised to be good partners with the Wisconsin Central....but they aren't partners no more because CN ownes all opf Wisconsin Central.

[Junctionfan]

Per subdivision, how often do they replace ties and rail etc?

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

The data from the AAR -- which only covers the American side -- shows a tie and rail replacement rate equivalent to every other U.S. Class I.

Have you taken a look at the Canadian statistics? That maybe more telling since CN owns more track in Canada than in the U.S

[daveklepper]

Is the physical plant, the track, the right-of-way, signals, being maintained to high standards or allowed to deteriorate? That is the question in my book.

[Anonymous]

I grew to the age of twelve by a industrial siding that fed the brookville lime
where my dad worked.we saw wey freights as long hauls shunt cars at all the
hours of the day.I met railroad people from engineers to office staff doing on
line evaluations.from the age of 8 or 9 till eleven I was the car checker for the
local that ran from Saint John to Sussex.I was never chased or troubled even
by railroad cops as soon as they got to know me.

Railroads as any company in growth or mergers make major
decisions that haunt you as shown by UP CR CSX-NS-CR ect.CN for years
was crown but it became privite and now earns its way and along the way
makes decisions that are not all wise.we need to learn a railroad is not a
model layout and decisions are made to help the whole and at times we all
aquire something and are forced to let go.

CN Rail has and always will impress me.

think safety.

David

[Anonymous]

Again guys thanks for the nice comments. I expected to be bashed by some of the slackers, but that has not happened. CN is a great railroad and effectively going after markets. The building of intermodal terminals at Prince Rupert and Halifax (hope I got the Atlantic terminal location correct) will put them in a great competitive position. Their leg to the Gulf coast (IC) is another great source of revenue. Look forward for great things from CN in the future.

We all see change in today's economy. The consulting company that I am a VP for has changed in many ways since I started there 26 years ago. While I do not like some of the changes I realize that without making these changes we could not stay competitive and become another Rock Island or Studebaker. Since I enjoy my paycheck I do not want that to happen. Flying to London in first class or on the Concorde was great, but those days are fond memories. Glad I was there when we did that.

Many times a company's downfall is the result of bad management (I call it bossiment not management). Bad decisions, without fraud, can be disasterous. Consider B&O under Garrett's leadership. He closed ranks and decided to reward stockholders with fat dividends at the expense of upgrading the physical plant. Their competitor to the north, Pennsylvania, continued to plow money into the physical plant. The result was PRR became the premier railway in the east and B&O was relegated to second tier status. There are plenty of current day companies that have done similar things and almost, or in some cases, destroyed the company.

Fraud on the part of management for personal greed is a crime that I think should be punishable by death. Several good companies staffed by hard working dedicated employees have been destroyed by management. Consider Ebbers with MCI or Lay with Enron. Both companies were driven in the ground by greedy management. The employees lost all thanks to fraud and greed. Lets hope that our court system puts them in some dark hole where they will not see the light of day for many years. ACLU-please do not come down on me for this. I am against cruel and unusual punishment and believe everyone deserves his day in court no manner how slimey he is.

[jchnhtfd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Saxman

Excellent comments wrwatkins. As an employee of CN, I do not agree with everything Mr. Harrison does in regards to the Company. However, I cannot disput his financial record in regards to the company. To be fair, some of the turn around , as you pointed out, was started by Mr. Tellier who was mandated by the Canadian Government to make changes. These changes have accelerated under Mr. Harrison.

Much of the negative feeling stems from as, you point out , that many fifedoms were upset along the way. Just in my little sphere on the ex GTW this is evident and too numerous to go into detail here. However, from what contact I have had with the way things had been for the employees in Canada these changes must be total culture shock.

Except that I am a former employee of the CV division, and CN eastern lines, I totally agree with this[#ditto]! Especially the fiefdoms bit -- and it was one dickens of a culture shock; one would really have to be Canadian to understand just how much of a one. But I suspect there are culture shocks happening on the old IC, too -- something had to, to get the operating ratios up. I'm still 100% pro-CN, and wish I still worked for them! (the departure was my bright idea, not theirs -- silly me. One learns...)

[Saxman]

Excellent comments wrwatkins. As an employee of CN, I do not agree with everything Mr. Harrison does in regards to the Company. However, I cannot disput his financial record in regards to the company. To be fair, some of the turn around , as you pointed out, was started by Mr. Tellier who was mandated by the Canadian Government to make changes. These changes have accelerated under Mr. Harrison.

Much of the negative feeling stems from as, you point out , that many fifedoms were upset along the way. Just in my little sphere on the ex GTW this is evident and too numerous to go into detail here. However, from what contact I have had with the way things had been for the employees in Canada these changes must be total culture shock.

[wcfan4ever]

I try not to bash CN. They do know what they are doing and know how to approach it. I get mad though when they treat customers, at least in Wisconsin the way they do. I know they want the mainline from Superior to Chicago but why make customers suffer by not dealing with them. There was a good Intermodel base in Green Bay and CN didn't want anything to do with it. There was plenty of money in it, but for some reason, unless someone can explain, I don't see why they would do this. The other reason I get mad is when they don't like you within 40 feet of the tracks...even on a public road. I haven't been told by any other railroad to move away. I keep my distance. I'm not asking to let me walk down the center of a mainline, but at least give some railfans credit and well you could say advertise the company by putting photos on the internet. Railfans and the railroad can work together to keep terrorists away and keep kids from playing on tracks. I don't know how many kids I've told to get off the tracks cause its dangerous. I have never seen CN tell kids to move but they will tell older people taking photos to move. I don't mean any harm, but then again, do they know that so I can kinda see where they are coming from on that one. Just my 2 cents.

[Junctionfan]

I don't bash railroads; I just get concerned with the folk who are running them. The only reason I am on Hunter Harrison's case is I have friends in the company and fear for their safety. I am also concerned with how our economies are effected by some of the decisions made. Believe me when I say I hope the things I say are wrong but unfortunatly I have not found any reason to retract my comments and that scares me.
Please someone give me some tangible proof that my observations are wrong.

I would like very much if Trains could do an investigation into CN to see if our bashing is warrented because I'm sure people like myself that only do it because of concerns and not blind hatred, would kindly retract our statesment if we are wrong.

Kindly and respectfully,

Andrew a.k.a Junctionfan

[Anonymous]

Thank you Roy for the nice comments. I fully expect to receive some venom from the CN people. Time will tell.

In my real job in the oil industry one of the yardsticks we use to gage the effeciency of an oil company is the number of daily barrels of production per employee in the producing end of the business. The Exxons of the world have a ratio in the range of 25 barrels per day per employee. Some of the government owned oil companies in South America have a ratio of LESS than ONE barrel per day per employee. I guess the local dictator bought quite a few votes.

Cheers,
*** Watkins

[DPD1]

I would agree... With the exception of BNSF, seems like most of the big roads get trashed pretty evenly from what I see. But I will say this... I received an e-mail from somebody I've talked to in the past that works for CN, and he was highly critical. And that's the first time I ever heard somebody be that critical of their own line. His view (which he implied was shared by other employees) was that CN was basically going to destroy itself if it kept going the way it has been. I can't say exactly what the reasoning was behind this. So it at least appears to be more than the usual fan bashing.

Dave
Los Angeles, CA
-Rail Radio Online-Home of the "TrainTenna" RR Monitoring Antenna-
http://eje.railfan.net/railradioonline

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wrwatkins

Firstoff I must admit that I like trains. I have been associated for several years being the chairman of a shortline railroad and on the board of a large metropolitan rail and bus transit agency. I also work in the oil and gas industry as an upstream consulting engineer. ALL companies are in business for one reason only-to make money. Each company picks out its nitch and tries to make money there. Exxon picked oil, GM picked venicles, UP picked railroading, etc. If a company could not make money in their chosen line they disappear. Think Rock Island, Studebaker, Braniff Airways. Railroads have to run a tight ship to be profitable. Their return on invested capital is one of the lowest of the Fortune 500. The CN was a ward of the Canadian government for decades. As we know government is not efficient. Look at the old post office. The employees of CN knew they had a fat cow with lifetime employment while under the wing of the Canadian government. Innovation and improvement are not words known by government run companies. In many parts of the world government jobs are patronage based. Vote the right way and we will give you a job and you do not even have to show up too often. Before CN was privitized they had one of the poorest operating ratios in the industry. Along comes Paul Tellier with the mandate to take the privitized company and whip it into shape. This he did and CN now has the best operating ratio of the Class 1s. In the process several apple carts and fifedoms were upset. No wonder the workers are grumbling. The gravey train has stopped and the workers must do a decent days work for a decent wage. Do not get me wrong. The vast majority of the employees were and are dedicated workers who were going the extra mile even before privatization. My hat is off to them for doing a super job in keeping the railroad running. It is the slakers who are forced to work for a change who are doing all the squawking.

[#ditto] Sir; you are an astute observer with statesman like qualities as well as a true gentleman. Such eloquence is not seen in many places these days, My complements and regards to you - piouslion (aka) Roy Alexander

[Anonymous]

Firstoff I must admit that I like trains. I have been associated for several years being the chairman of a shortline railroad and on the board of a large metropolitan rail and bus transit agency. I also work in the oil and gas industry as an upstream consulting engineer. ALL companies are in business for one reason only-to make money. Each company picks out its nitch and tries to make money there. Exxon picked oil, GM picked venicles, UP picked railroading, etc. If a company could not make money in their chosen line they disappear. Think Rock Island, Studebaker, Braniff Airways. Railroads have to run a tight ship to be profitable. Their return on invested capital is one of the lowest of the Fortune 500. The CN was a ward of the Canadian government for decades. As we know government is not efficient. Look at the old post office. The employees of CN knew they had a fat cow with lifetime employment while under the wing of the Canadian government. Innovation and improvement are not words known by government run companies. In many parts of the world government jobs are patronage based. Vote the right way and we will give you a job and you do not even have to show up too often. Before CN was privitized they had one of the poorest operating ratios in the industry. Along comes Paul Tellier with the mandate to take the privitized company and whip it into shape. This he did and CN now has the best operating ratio of the Class 1s. In the process several apple carts and fifedoms were upset. No wonder the workers are grumbling. The gravey train has stopped and the workers must do a decent days work for a decent wage. Do not get me wrong. The vast majority of the employees were and are dedicated workers who were going the extra mile even before privatization. My hat is off to them for doing a super job in keeping the railroad running. It is the slakers who are forced to work for a change who are doing all the squawking.

[gabe]

Almost to the reader, people seem to bash CN, and Mr. Hemphill consistently points out that there is more than one way of looking at the operation of CN.

Readers seem to assert: CN doesn’t take care of its employees, is not concerned about reinvestment/safety or the long term growth of the company, abandons lines without giving shortlines an opportunity to fill the traffic vacuum, is hostile to rail fans and customers, takes candy from little children, and—most troubling—is boring to rail fan.

Mr. Hemphill seems to consistently point out: There is more than one way to run a railroad. If railroads cared about rail fans more than stockholders there wouldn’t be any railroads and it is better to watch a boring railroad than no railroad. We should accept railraods for what they are.

(If my summarization mischaracterizes someone’s position, I apologize. I am certainly not attempting to misrepresent anyone.)

Though I seem to side more strongly with the reader’s position, Mr. Hemphill's exposure of the contrary view expands our knowledge and makes for more interesting dialog than everyone sitting around saying how right everyone else is. I also don’t think Mr. Hemphill’s commentary does anything other than add to the dialog—like embarrass someone who expresses this view.

Anyway, is there something to the fact that all the readers--nearly to the person--imparticularly pick CN out of the Big 6 and consistently bash it? Why CN?

Mr. Hemphill, I realize you have not really expressed an opinion with regard to the operation of CN so much as pointed out the contrary positions regarding CN, but is there anything to the fact that so many people view CN with such vitriol? It is not as though CN is the only railroad that makes money. What is the cause of the forum's consistent dislike of CN?