RR ferry loading docks -- perhaps a whole new database?
There are certainly many more remnants to be found around the San Francisco Bay area -- and certainly in the Great Lakes area as well.
Already had some of those, but you did add a couple...
Note the Portsmouth, NH coordinents as given are out in the middle of the Atlantic... you are missing a "70" in front of the "46 1.72 W"
Additions to U.S. locations since the last update are:
and Non-U.S. is:
Since I am having trouble getting a copy of the datafiles on the web for others... how about I print the Excel sheet as a .PDF file?
Non-U.S. list: http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/sempervaporo/Trainsdotcom/Non%20US%20Roundhouses%20and%20Turntables.pdf
U.S. list: http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/sempervaporo/Trainsdotcom/US%20Roundhouses%20and%20Turntables.pdf
I hope I have spelled things correctly... if anyone finds an error please post the info here and I will make corrections.
As I add more to these lists I will notify here when I make a new pdf file.
If anyone wants the Google earth KMZ files, contact me via the forum by clicking on my name on the left and send me your e-mail address and I will respond with an e-mail with the files attached.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Thanks for the link to your list.. I have a couple more for Colorado. The first one is a transfer table at the former Rio Grande's Burnham Shops in Denver. Photos showing movement from different years indicate it's still working.
The second one is a resubmittal of an earlier post for Boreas Pass. I suspect the blurred Google Earth image was not convincing. However, recent imagery is much clearer and shows the turntable pit outline within the enginehouse ruin. As stated from the US Forest service trail guide: "8. SUMMIT....There was a stone engine house with a turntable, coal bin and water tank inside. This was destroyed in a 1909 fire, leaving only the quarried stones now scattered west of the few remaining buildings." fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5210494.pdf
Denver, CO 39°43'51.73"N 105° 0'25.79"W DRGW Transfer Table Burnham Shops
Boreas Pass, CO 39°24'38.30"N 105°58'7.64"W C&S TT pit in engine house ruin
Thanks... dunno why Boreas Pass was not in the list.
Updated the file on-line... same link as in previous post.
Thanks for the correction on the Portsmouth, NH location, all I can say is "fumble fingeritis" got me. I now have a few more for your list but these are in NH, VT and Spain:
Sanbornville, NH 43 33.264 N X 71 1.883 W Turntable only, not working, no Bldg.
St. Johnsbury, VT 44 24.940 N X 72 .871 W Turntable only, working, no bldg.
Canfranc, Huesca, Aragon, Spain 42 44.783 N X 0 30.808 W -- Tt & Rh, neither in working condition. Also the station just north of them is a c.1928 work of art (some 800' long) that is in the process of being restored to be used as a high end resort.
This turntable is in Kentucky, no roundhouse. It may have been moved here, topo map shows different location within the yard.
KY, Corbin 36°55'47.60"N 84° 5'19.57"W L&N TT only
Guys, a batch of new ones and a correction. I started thinking about my listing of St. Johnsbury, VT and seemed to remember that there was some visible evidence of the Rh, so I checked on Bing to see if their view was clearer. It was and there is a partial outline of the Rh with the Tt. The new ones:
LaSalle, CO - 40 20.908N X 104 42.260W Outline of Tt only, no Bldg.
La Junta, CO - 37 59.492N X 103 32.537W Partial outline of ATSF Rh only
* Tiny Town RR, CO - 39 36.186N X 105 13.43W This is a small scale tourist RR and town of small bldgs. The Tt & Rh are real and fully functional.
Cranbrook, BC, Canada - 49 30.640N X 115 46.602W A large and fully functioning RH & Tt, CPRR
Kentville, NS, Canada - 45 4.755N X 64 30.221W Tt barely visible, Rh saved but unused
Halifax, NS, Canada - 44 39.508N X 63 37.44W Tt & Rh still there
Moncton, NB, Canada - 46 5.375N X 64 48.841W Just a shadow of the Rh; hint only of Tt
St. John, NB, Canada - 45 14.92N X 66 4.415W A shadow only of the Rh
* - I included this little "kids" RR as it is unique and has been around for a long time. They are open only during the better weather months of the year and are very popular with Colorado residents and visitors (better known as "touristas")
I will be reviewing my database to see if I have more that are not on the listings and as I find more will pass them on to all of you. Also, as I mentioned in a previous post, I've noticed a couple of RR ferry loading docks in San Francisco Bay and would like to mark others if any of you find them. Please fell free to forward them to me. Thanks, the Trainmaster at DPRNRR.
The Roundhouse Manor apartment building is also built where the roundhouse had been.
I appreciate the the info but you didn't mention just which location you were referring to. Please forward it. Thanks, Trainmaster, DPRNRR
I had a really hard time finding the one at La Junta, CO. The balloon track there and the general layout really begs to have a Roundhouse there, and I finally see some very vague outlines of the radial tracks. I pinpointed the center a bit to the ENE of the coords you gave.
Kentville and Halifax were already in my database.
I have given up repeating other's listings when I add them to my database, so for those of you that are putting the data into Google Earth to follow along, you can do a copy and paste of DPRNRRColorado's coordinates and then delete the "X" and all but one space between the Lat and Lon and Google Earth will accept the data when you paste the data into the Search text box.
I included TinyTown in my database as I have been fooled already into including some of other amusement parks and other "toy" or miniature RRs, so what the hey, may as well include it. But I am wondering what "City" to associate with it? Indian Hills seems to be the closest community, but I can't tell if that is the best match for location info.
DPRNRRColorado ... Also, as I mentioned in a previous post, I've noticed a couple of RR ferry loading docks in San Francisco Bay and would like to mark others if any of you find them. Please fell free to forward them to me. Thanks, the Trainmaster at DPRNRR.
... Also, as I mentioned in a previous post, I've noticed a couple of RR ferry loading docks in San Francisco Bay and would like to mark others if any of you find them. Please fell free to forward them to me. Thanks, the Trainmaster at DPRNRR.
If you open up your own thread, and maybe list the parameters of what you are looking for, I could give you RR ferry loading docks in other parts of the country. You would also get more response from people on that specific topic when they see "...RR Ferry Dock..." in the thread title. Thanks.
The Roundhouse Manor apartment building is in Kaukauna, WI.
For all interested I've found what may be some not on your current list. They are:
Altoona, PA (a 4th!?) 40 31.493N 78 23.453W [I didn't see this on the last list downloaded]
White River Junction, VT (Hartford, VT as WRJ is not a town but the place on the rivers) The old roundhouse burned totally in 11/08. A new lookalike has been built and opened in2010. It isn't real it just looks like the old one from the air. All tracks and the turntable have been removed. The new building can be seen on Bing's aerial view only. 43 39.212N 72 19.763W
Lackawana, NY 42 48.865N 78 50.176W
Knoxville, TN 35 59109N 83 56.569W The turntable has been wiped out by a new commercial bldg. but it can be seen on the Google Earth historical photo of 1992.
Fort Smith, AR 35 23.934N 94 25.048W
As to Tiny Town RR & Town, CO -- It should more correctly be tied to the community of Turkey Creek. Though not an incorporated entity it is best known as being there.
Question -- In viewing the aerials of Fargo, ND I noticed there is a second passenger station S of the one used today by Amtrak. Does anyone have any further info on it. I've been so busy with personal stuff lately I haven't had time to research it?
Every once in a while someone finds a new item to add to the list that makes me go, "How'd I miss THAT!" Your Altoona find is one of those.
Google Earth shows White River Junction as a name of a city in that area, so I kept that name.
There should be a decimal point in the Lat. for Knoxville, 35 59.109N 83 56.569W
I updated my list for Tiny Town to be Turkey Creek.
New files were uploaded for anyone to download:
Excel file (comes as two sheets in one file, 1 for U.S. and 1 for Non-U.S.; includes some other comments and info in more columns than what I have shown here):
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/sempervaporo/Trainsdotcom/Roundhouse%20and%20Turntables.xls
PDF file of Non-U.S. locations (has a couple of updates and some location name corrections):
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/sempervaporo/Trainsdotcom/Non%20US%20Roundhouses%20and%20Turntables.pdf
PDF file of U.S. Locations (has latest updates and corrections):
Have to try this again. The Roundhouse Manor apartment building at 300 Bicentennial Court in Kaukauna, WI 54130 is built on top of what was once the roundhouse & turntable of the Milwaukee Lakeshore & We stern Railroad that was later acquired by the Chicago & Northwestern Railroad. The roundhouse was demolished circa 1970. An old news article from the 1800's refers to a gentleman visiting relatives in Kaukauna and states that he is the foreman of the roundhouse in Clintonville, WI. Picture postcards also show roundhouses for the C&NW in Adams, WI Antigo, WI and Wyeville, WI. In Iowa picture postcards show roundhouses in Belle Plaine, IA Hawarden, IA MissouriValley, IA and Tama, Ia.
blx Have to try this again. The Roundhouse Manor apartment building at 300 Bicentennial Court in Kaukauna, WI 54130 is built on top of what was once the roundhouse & turntable of the Milwaukee Lakeshore & We stern Railroad that was later acquired by the Chicago & Northwestern Railroad. The roundhouse was demolished circa 1970. An old news article from the 1800's refers to a gentleman visiting relatives in Kaukauna and states that he is the foreman of the roundhouse in Clintonville, WI. Picture postcards also show roundhouses for the C&NW in Adams, WI Antigo, WI and Wyeville, WI. In Iowa picture postcards show roundhouses in Belle Plaine, IA Hawarden, IA MissouriValley, IA and Tama, Ia.
Wish I could find more of those but I can find no evidence for the location of the Roundhouse that would have been in those cities. The only ones I could add at present are:
Adams WI was a real bear to see the evidence, but it is there if you look at some of the historical images from Google Earth. There is a confusion factor in the after the RH and TT were long gone, someone built a circular berm around some structure that is just to the south of where the Turntable was and well within the footprint of the Roundhouse. The berm shows in the 1998 images but is gone by 2005 (the next year that an image is available. The 2005 image shows the RH footprint the best.
The rest of the cities you list just don't show any evidence of where the Roundhouse may have been.
I can't find much evidence that there was ever a RR in Antigo, WI. It may have followed Langlade Rd in from the NE to near Antigo Lake, but I cannot find any evidence of a yard or any RR structures in the area. Or maybe it turned west on the extreme north side, north of Prosser Pl, then curved south to parallel Edison St. and Dorr St. on the west side of town and off to the South. But, still, no evidence anywhere along that line is there any evidence of where the Roundhouse may have been.
I am not saying that there was never a Roundhouse in those cities, just that I cannot pinpoint the center of the Turntable from visual evidence on Google Earth.
After a quick digging, the railroad in Antigo, Wi. ran between Morse and Door Streets about two and a half blocks west of Wis. 47. The round house was located between Edison and Lincoln Streets north of 1st Street. Today, there is no sign of the roundhouse as a ball field and apartment complex occupy the site.
Info found at: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~antigowis/places/railroad/railroad.html and Acme Mapper2.0
James
The Butler After a quick digging, the railroad in Antigo, Wi. ran between Morse and Door Streets about two and a half blocks west of Wis. 47. The round house was located between Edison and Lincoln Streets north of 1st Street. Today, there is no sign of the roundhouse as a ball field and apartment complex occupy the site. Info found at: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~antigowis/places/railroad/railroad.html and Acme Mapper2.0
The house in the foreground of the photo at the bottom of the page in the link you provided is STILL THERE! Quite recognizable! On the NorthEast corner of 2nd Ave. and Edison St. From that and some vague sighting across the Google Earth aerial view, tipped to about the same angle and bearing, I think I can place the center of the Roundhouse in Antigo, WI. So, this is my best estimate:
Update on the Bethlehem PA location: 40° 37' 10" N 75° 24' 39" W
As of December 26, 2011: Turntable is out of the pit. The small 4 or 5 stall roundhouse is intact; put used for sheltering heavy construction equipment. The concrete coal tower still standing next to the roundhouse, however, there is a steel concrete mixing tower next to it is not original to the former railroad facility. Visible from Interstate 78 West at about milepost 66.2.
seppburgh2 Update on the Bethlehem PA location: 40° 37' 10" N 75° 24' 39" W As of December 26, 2011: Turntable is out of the pit. The small 4 or 5 stall roundhouse is intact; put used for sheltering heavy construction equipment. The concrete coal tower still standing next to the roundhouse, however, there is a steel concrete mixing tower next to it is not original to the former railroad facility. Visible from Interstate 78 West at about milepost 66.2.
Methinks you have two listing confused.
I have one "footprint" of a roundhouse listed for Bethelehem, PA at: 40°37'9.34"N 75°24'38.36"W
and a remnant of a building listed as Hellertown/Bethelehem, PA at: 40°35'54.10"N 75°20'32.64"W
The former lost the Turntable and Roundhouse sometime between 1996 and 1999.
The latter lost the Turntable in the same timeframe, but the Roundhouse is still there. It appears to me to be only 3 stalls. It is possibly part of what appears to be an aggregate mixing plant. There is a twin silo building to the NE of the Roundhouse that was probably a coaling tower.
Your date inplies that maybe you might be referring to yet another Bethlehem, PA environ site, since the Turntable is not visible in the 4/12/1999 images on Google Earth for either of the sites I have in the list. Your coordinates are closest to the site where the Roundhouse was gone back in 1999.
Sorry for the confusion, I looked up Bethlehem on your spreadsheet and though this was the one related to the old Beth Steel RailRoad. My error. You mostly are right on the number of stalls, hard to count while going by at 65 MPH on Interstate 78. Thanks for the correction!
Semper, glad I could help.
Here we are again with more "stuff" to fill your file. I've been busy looking around to see what I can dig up that may be new, and despite having received the latest updated list I never can sure just what you've gotten since the last time. SO here goes >>>>>...
This one may be another "Altoona". It all depends on whether you looked here or not.
Kahului, Maui, Hawaii -- At the harbor the former Rh & shops of the Kahului RR are still in use (but not for a RR) and in fairly good condition. The Tt is long gone. They are at: 20 53.732N 156 27.812W [ As an addition, there is a former Kuhului engine running on the mainland at the Midwest Central RR in Mt. Pleasant, IA that has for some time been referred to as "The Pineapple Princess". She used to run on the Georgetown Loop in Colorado but they found she didn't have enough power for the grade]
Some adjustments for Canada --
Moncton & St. John are in New Brunswick (NB) not Nova Scotia (NS)
White River Junction, VT -- The situation here is a common problem with many towns in the northeast. In many towns there are villages or places that become known by another name other than the town they are part of, such as White River Junction. It is in the town of Hartford, VT but it got the name for the fact that the White River and Connecticut River have their juncture here. The RRs then took this as the name for the station, and it stuck. So, either can be used, but the actual "legal" or incorporated name is Hartford, VT. ["nuff said]
Now for the fun stuff and a trip to the other side of the world, Australia. Ten years ago at this time I would have just gotten back from an extended trip there, but some terrorists blocked my plans. So, where did I end up, back in Hawaii. [ I Iived there for 3 years ]
The research I did then is now the fruit of the beginning of my list for Australia's Rh & Tt population.
1. Corney Town [Rh & Tt outline] -- 33 28.341S 150 10.769E This is in the area of a great multi-faceted tourist line, The ZigZag Railway out of nearby Lithgow, NSW, Australia.
2. Kuranda [small Tt] -- 16 49.047S 145 38.241E Here out of Cairns, QLD (Queensland), Australia is the Kuranda Scenic Railway. It has different trains and an extended gondola ride (The Skyride) that run through the rainforest to Kuranda. If this town sounds familiar, it's also where one goes to see the Great Barrier Reef.
3. Emerald - [small preserved Tt] -- 37 55.956S 145 26.332E This is one of the small towns along the Puffing Billy Railway that runs out of Belgrave, Victoria, AU A caution -- the Tt is almost impossible to see even on GE but some is visible and even more by viewing the picture associated with the marker.
4. Ballarat -- [ Tt & Rh outline] -- 37 33.57S 143 52.299E Ballarat, Victoria, AU -- Is in the middle of the town that was part of Australia's "BoomTown" cycle when vast gold deposits (and later other minerals) were found here. This is NW of Melbourne.
5. Alice Springs -- [must view the historical view on GE to see the Tt] Alice Springs, Northern Territories, AU -- I've included this because of its historic RR significance. Until recent years all RR service stopped at Alice Springs where "The Ghan" route ended. [seriously, look it up] It was then that the long planned for extension (about 100 years) was finally finished on to the north coast and Darwin. Once the line was continued the thought must have been, "what do we need this for?" so, it was removed.
Well, that's it for now, but In the not to distant future more on Canada & Australia will be forwarded as I get the chance to work it up.
TRAINMASTER - DPRNRRColorado
@ DPRNRRColorado: Much appreciate the corrections to my fumble fingers and brain! Also appreciate the additional Hawaiian and Australian locations.
I just updated all 3 files for download:
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/sempervaporo/Trainsdotcom/US%20Roundhouses%20and%20Turntables.pdf
Hi all. While sitting at home nursing a very sore back I put together a few additions to the list for all of you. Hopefully they are all new.
Toledo, OH -- Tt & Rh - Also a possible older Tt pit next to the one clearly visible -- 41 40.212N 83 28.73W
Toledo, OH -- Tt & Rh - Tt fully operational, Rh outline - 41 42.492N 83 30.233W
Houlton, ME -- Tt & Rh - both out of operation - 46 7.504N 67 50.963W
Bangor, ME -- Rh, Tt gone - 44 47.427N 68 51.921W
Milo, ME -- Tt & Rh, along with transfer table - 45 13.882N 68 58.102W
That's it on the US ones for now. I'm working on an extended list of sites in Australia but first I want to check to be sure they are still there. As we know they have a way of being moved or demolished.
DPRNRRColorado Hi all. While sitting at home nursing a very sore back I put together a few additions to the list for all of you. Hopefully they are all new. Toledo, OH -- Tt & Rh - Also a possible older Tt pit next to the one clearly visible -- 41 40.212N 83 28.73W Toledo, OH -- Tt & Rh - Tt fully operational, Rh outline - 41 42.492N 83 30.233W Houlton, ME -- Tt & Rh - both out of operation - 46 7.504N 67 50.963W Bangor, ME -- Rh, Tt gone - 44 47.427N 68 51.921W Milo, ME -- Tt & Rh, along with transfer table - 45 13.882N 68 58.102W That's it on the US ones for now. I'm working on an extended list of sites in Australia but first I want to check to be sure they are still there. As we know they have a way of being moved or demolished. TRAINMASTER - DPRNRRColorado
The two Toldeo, OH sites are new to my list. (How did I miss them anyway!?!?!?!)
The one listed as Bangor, ME I have as Northern Maine Jct, and the Turntable and roundhouse appear to still be there and in operation, per the present Google Earth images. I seem to remember (not sure) that someone convinced me that it should be named Northern Maine Jct instead of Bangor, but I don't remember why. I guess i could look back through this thread and see if I can find the reasons, but I am too lazy right now. Maybe later.
Same is true for the RH you have listed as Milo, ME as I seem to also remember being told the actual name is Derby, ME. I did add the Transfer Table to the list, but under the Derby, ME name.
If you have argument to the contrary, lay it on me... I'll go see if I can find the correspondence that convinced me of the names presently in the files and make some sort of determination.
As for the sites being "still there", it is nice to know the present dispostion of the site, but I am including any site what is recognizable on Google Earth, even in the Historical Imagery, or any site that has some proof on the web from photos or other mapping services... As long as I can somehow determine the center of the Turntable, I will add it.
Thanks for the additions, and I hope you can add lots more from Australia. I appreciate it vey much.
Four more:
Truckee, CA - turntable pit remnants
Milwaukee, WI - Re-purposed - Now part of the parks department.
Monte Cristo, WA - Abandoned turntable in ghost town (There are a lot of abandoned turntables/pits in logging/mining ghost towns, e.g. somewhere in Fairfax, WA - Finding them can be a challenge, like McCarthy, AK, squared.)
Mystic, SD - CB&Q overgrown turntable remains along Mickelson Trail Head 7 - Video.
Changes/Notes:
Santa Barbara, CA on your list was built later to honor the roundhouse formerly at that location, torn down in 1967.
Hancock, MI - Q&TL ruin is currently undergoing a rehabilitation.
Sanoma, CA - the roundhouse is there with the turntable.
The Calmar, IA roundhouse is not (yet) a ruin, and stands solid with no roof leaks. It was empty when I was there last spring, but it appeared to be used occasionally as an equipment shelter by its owner, Croell Redi-Mix.
Some more:
Skagway, AK - WP&Y footprint (Not visible via Google.)
Bristol, VA - N&W Re-purposed
Fulton, VA - Footprint
Estherville, IA - pit outline - Turntable removed after 2006. Can be seen via Google historic imagery.
Reader, AR - Turntable for the tourist Reader Railroad. Abandoned in 1983.
Jacksonville, FL - Re-purposed single stall at CSX dispatch center
Jacksonville, FL - Transfer table footprint
Laws, CA - Working "gallows" turntable
Colusa, CA - Colusa & Lake narrow gauge footprint - Roundhouse best seen via Google historic imagery 1998 - Razed in 2009.
Eureka, CA - pit
Nevada, MO - MK&T footprint - best seen via Google historic imagery (any date.)
Texline, TX - Re-purposed - image is centered on the filled pit.
Bremerton, WA - Turntable - Puget Sound Naval Ship Yard
Shelton, WA - Roundhouse/Turntable in use
Beecher Falls, VT had a turntable/single stall roundhouse (originally 3-stalls) visible via 1999 Google historic imagery at 45°0'37.46"N 71°30'25.85"W - Turntable sold to tourist Passumpsic Railroad, north of Barnet, VT.
Hawarden, IA - Turntable is still there
Golden, CO - TT and RH are both museum-built replicas
Folsom, CA - Replica display turntable
Casper, WY (spelling)
WOW! The list just keeps getting longer and more complete. Thanks! Here are a few more in the US & Canada before I get to passing on the Australia list.
Limon, CO -- Rh & Tt outline -- 39 15.622N 103 41.022W -- This is a unique spot as this was a Rock Island site. One of only two in Colorado. The other is in Colorado Springs. It's also the point where the UP & RI joined (or separated depending on direction) their services in and out of Denver & C.S.
Norway, ME -- Car Barn -- 44 12.8N 70 31.524W -- This is the old car barn for the Norway & Paris (ME) Street Railway. It has been drastically rebuilt so as to not being recognizable. I was told about it from another source. So, I don't know if you want to add it to the list, but it is another form of a "roundhouse" or "engine house".
As to the question about Milo/Derby, ME. This is another situation like the Hartford/White River Junction, VT thing. I liked the way Semper Vaporo handled it. That way gives more specific location in any setting.
The "Bangor" site is one that was covered and I forgot it. It probably is best to use the Northern Maine Junction name as that is what the RR decided on based on its function. However, it is within the city of Bangor according to the map.
Now, Lets take a ride to Canada ----
Edmunston, NB -- Tt only -- 47 21.658N 68 20.203W -- right along the US/Can. border, the river.
Dauphin, MB -- Rh & Tt -- 51 9.232N 100 3.719W
Minnedosa, MB -- Rh outline -- 50 15.032N 99 50.588W
Winnipeg, AB -- Rh outline, barely visible -- 49 54.786N 97 9.464W
Brandon, AB -- Rh outline -- 49 51.079N 99 55.48W
Prince George, BC -- Tt -- 53 55.257N 122 43.874W
North Battleford, SK -- Rh outline -- 52 46.156N 108 17.821W
Swift Current, SK -- Rh outline -- 50 16.859N 107 47.674W
In a week or so I'll have some more from Canada and then I'll start passing on the beginnings of the Australia list.
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