The question I have about fiber optics on the actual grade is that there have been a few hellacious washouts that have cut deep gullies across the ballast prism and subgrade -- I don't see any evidence of a cable line in these areas.
Way too many variables.
1: Fee title and/or reversion interests. If held in fee fiber agreement may be assigned to whomever fee is sold.
2. ROW title is comprised of many components as several prior owners were probably involved, and each fee parcel must be examined to determine what may be done in event of abandonment.
3. Each state has its own requirements regarding disposition, many established through litigation.
blue streak 1 Correct if wrong. Is there a fiber optic cable along the ROW? That might make it impossible to abandon depending on NC rules and how the land parcels were acquired.
Correct if wrong. Is there a fiber optic cable along the ROW? That might make it impossible to abandon depending on NC rules and how the land parcels were acquired.
Oh ok thanks.
C40_9w Hello, ive been following this thread for a while and thought id ask a questio. I dont know much about how railroads operate in this kind of field but howcome theyve kept it so long if it isnt in use? And due to recent events is it a possibility they would do something with it? i know they probably wouldnt use it but why not rip it up to use it for money if they want a profit so bad.
Hello, ive been following this thread for a while and thought id ask a questio. I dont know much about how railroads operate in this kind of field but howcome theyve kept it so long if it isnt in use? And due to recent events is it a possibility they would do something with it? i know they probably wouldnt use it but why not rip it up to use it for money if they want a profit so bad.
While suggestions of re-activating the line are generally met with denial, that doesn't mean the railroad doesn't have some idea that it could someday become necessary and/or desirable. Maintenance has apparently been negligible. Apparently property taxes are not a significant issue. And sometimes the scrap value is overshadowed by the cost of removal - never mind the rails themselves. Remediation is an expense, too.
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Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
ns145 Have no fear, Trip Optimizer and PTC will know just what to do!
Have no fear, Trip Optimizer and PTC will know just what to do!
I walked from Saluda towards sand cut on Thanksgiving of this year. I took this picture about 1/4 mile down. I made it about half way to sand cut & turned around. Briars made it extremely difficult to navigate. Definetly no maintenance has been done.
I wish I had the opportunity to see trains roll through Saluda. It must have been quite an experience with the rail line up high paralleling the Main Street. As it is now, it's just depressing, though the museum is worth seeing.
DUBCH87's analysis makes sense, except for one point:
There are films and videos detailing the safe operation of the grade-- with enough detail to implement a rapid training program, possibly just a few days or week, if necessary.
The fiber lease is probably the real reason it hasn't been fiber banked or abandoned.
Saluda in the era of safety vests, PTC, precision scheduled railroading, and no coal… good luck with that.
The same washouts that have been there for 17+ years are still there. It would cost millions of dollars and take months to reopen the line. Likely no one working for the railroad now knows how to run a train on the mountain and it would take months to train and certify.
Norfolk Southern sold the W-Line from Asheville to Flat Rock to WATCO. They have since down-graded the S-Line through Asheville and pulled through freights. The railbanked section of the W-Line is twenty miles of mountainous line with no industry to serve. Intermodal can take other routes that are longer but faster.
There is still occasional maintenance, but much less now than in years past. The line stayed in pretty good shape (except for the washouts) up until NS sold to WATCO in 2014. It’s still not bad, considering the length of time that has passed and the warm, wet climate being very conducive for vegetative growth. Every now and then a crew will come in and spray herbicide on a section. My only guess as to why they still bother is because they’re required to maintain the right-of-way to some degree due to the lease they have with AT&T for their fiber optic line that shares the RoW.
It would likely cost more to go in and remove the tracks than the scrap could be sold for. Access is pretty limited between Saluda and Tryon.
Google Street View from this year:
Zirconia https://goo.gl/maps/eBxH29Cti9TLHi43A
Saluda 1 https://goo.gl/maps/Z67z1WLM1yUMZry68
Saluda 2 https://goo.gl/maps/L62UrndcGqkzxq2GA
Saluda 3 https://goo.gl/maps/Kfi3ajLvf4Nc59rh8
Landrum 1 https://goo.gl/maps/q5XQdF7y3FirSbhd8
Landrum 2 https://goo.gl/maps/hVhkAmVZWrA2CurT9
I wonder if any maintenance at all has been done to it?
I think I commented earlier that mergers and consolidations have allowed for other routing, avoiding the hassles of running the hill.
That leaves one possibility for keeping rail on the ROW having a "safety valve" should the other routes become a problem (ie, major, long term blockage of other routes).
After all, they already own it, and it has rail on it.
BackshopMaybe they've forgotten that it's there? With workforce turnover and transfers, the number of people that remember its operation is probably a small percentage.
I would venture EVERYBODY that operated Saluda in the past has retired.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Maybe they've forgotten that it's there? With workforce turnover and transfers, the number of people that remember its operation is probably a small percentage.
ns145 dubch87 Two decades... pretty sure I read somewhere that the last freight ran on December 9, 2001.And before anyone starts... it will never reopen.
dubch87 Two decades... pretty sure I read somewhere that the last freight ran on December 9, 2001.And before anyone starts... it will never reopen.
Two decades... pretty sure I read somewhere that the last freight ran on December 9, 2001.And before anyone starts... it will never reopen.
To date NS has not undertaken formal abandonment procedures and started to reclaim the track materials for scrap value.
MrBassman81 Any news on Saluda? I was up there a few weeks back & it's a sad sight.
Any news on Saluda? I was up there a few weeks back & it's a sad sight.
I agree, tree 68, sounds like it was dangerous route and if they have an alternative, why not use it. And some of today's employees are not up to the challengers that the old times did routinely. A friend who is retired BNSF engineer, started with the Q, said it was time to retire when the other guy in the cab learned how to drive a train on a simulator. He had spent 3 years on the left side of cab learning how it all worked before he could even think about becoming an engineer.
Sunnyland...I expect it will never see a train again.
Back when Class 1's were the size of today's regionals, a railroad might be stuck using a route because it was the only one they had.
I would opine that today's availability of other routes, on the same railroad, diminishes that need. That they haven't run traffic over the line in almost 20 years tends to confirm such a conclusion.
i was in Saluda with friends in 2016 and no signs of anything being done. The tracks are still there but the signal lights at crossing have been covered. Did not look bad there, but things I have read about the Grade and pics I have seen, I do not ever expect railroading to come back there. Looked like a brutal ROW and if they do need it for some unknown reason, I expect it will never see a train again.
thanks; this gives us some idea
blue streak 1 How did the passenger trains operate on the grade ? Did the F units have dynamic brakes ? Those were not very efficient ? How many F units and many passenger cars ?
How did the passenger trains operate on the grade ? Did the F units have dynamic brakes ? Those were not very efficient ? How many F units and many passenger cars ?
Johnny
BoydOr make it the first mainline cog railway in the US. Imagine the sound the first time a locomotive jumped the cog.
Now you would want an emergency release of excessive load on the rack gear, and it would likely make one hell of an interesting noise if that happened, but it would be less likely, and better managed, than cogs lifting and stripping vertically...
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