Trains.com

Navajo Steel Gangs - Santa Fe.

5822 views
16 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Indianapolis, Indiana
  • 191 posts
Navajo Steel Gangs - Santa Fe.
Posted by G Mack on Sunday, September 28, 2008 5:04 PM

 

Hello everyone,

In the Locomotive 2008 magazime from Trains there is a story titled "Last of the Chiefs". It tells of the FP45's ordered for passenger service. In this story they mention "the road's renowned Navajo steel gangs".

This is the first I've heard of this, but it sounds like a interesting story. Anyone know more?

Later,

Gregory

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Denver / La Junta
  • 10,820 posts
Posted by mudchicken on Sunday, September 28, 2008 8:11 PM

Santa Fe System Steel Gangs 1 & 2 .... Best/ most efficient steel gangs there ever were, bar none...Still around, in modified form on BNSF. The radio chatter with the gang in operation and the Navajo calls for "the baloney wagon" (lunch & break truck) would raise a grin every time.

They work at the same steady pace .... all day long. As long as the dispatcher left them alone, they could stretch out and lay CWR like a bat outta h*ll. Watched them embarrass the living daylights out of the SP on two separate occasions on Tehachapi.

Diningcar and I will always remember them well. Yha-te-he!

 

Oop!

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 1,754 posts
Posted by diningcar on Sunday, September 28, 2008 9:13 PM

Yes my muddy friend, they were and, I assume you know as I am retired, they are still the best.

This has been a long standing "partnership" with Santa Fe's neighbors in NM and AZ. I remember it from the 50's, nineteen that is before some of you smart a**s junp in. The Navajos take great pride in the reputation they have for their work on the railroad. 

 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Denver / La Junta
  • 10,820 posts
Posted by mudchicken on Sunday, September 28, 2008 10:43 PM
 diningcar wrote:

Yes my muddy friend, they were and, I assume you know as I am retired, they are still the best.

This has been a long standing "partnership" with Santa Fe's neighbors in NM and AZ. I remember it from the 50's, nineteen that is before some of you smart a**s junp in. The Navajos take great pride in the reputation they have for their work on the railroad. 

 

Oop!
Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Allentown, PA
  • 9,810 posts
Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Monday, September 29, 2008 9:52 AM

For a little more, see Page 3 of 4 of the previous thread on "Santa Fe Railroad and the taming of the west" from back in July 2008 (08th - 16th), anout 1/5 of the way down the page - the 07-12-2008 posts by nanaimo73, mudchicken, and Red Horse:

http://cs.trains.com/forums/3/1485898/ShowPost.aspx#1485898

Hey Kathi, this seems like a good topic for an article - the history and current status/ operations of the gangs.  I know you could get someone to write it who would be sensitive to the cultural issues - not condescending, etc.  Richard Steinheimer, Ted Benson, Bruce Kelly, and Ben Bachmann come to mind - not to exclude any others, just not coming to mind right now.  What do you think ?

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: St. Louis, MO
  • 432 posts
Posted by Ishmael on Monday, September 29, 2008 1:33 PM

Let me second the motion as to the fact that this would be a most enlightening and interesting article. The Navajo seem to be one of the best organized tribes of all, in that they have well educated people, lawyers of their own nation, strong government and infrastructure.

There was a Trains article some years back about the Black Mesa and Lake Powell RR, and the agreements they had to work out to use the lands of the Navajo and Hopi, both of whom drove a hard bargain. I'd like to see what Fred Frailey would research, again just one vote.

Baltimore and Ohio-America's First Railroad
  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Allentown, PA
  • 9,810 posts
Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 12:21 PM

I used Google's "Advanced Search" for "Navajo" and "track gang"*.  One of the links was to a "Google Books" excerpt from the "History of the Atchison Topeka and Santa Fe Railway" by Keith L. Bryant, Jr., published 1974 by the University of Nebraska Press, Lincoln, Nebraska, (trading as Bison Books), and/ or Trans-Anglo Books, and/ or Macmillan, New York, ISBN 0-0832-6066-0.  (Oddly enough, the Google page for this looks like it is buried in a page for a children's book about a Navajo boy, entitled "Owl in the Cedar Tree".)

http://books.google.com/books?id=Kggw_LfUIF4C&dq=%22history+of+the+atchison+topeka+and+santa+fe+railway%22&pg=PP1&ots=FYfpsiowJ_&sig=i6PuzJWPsPjifXfMc8vUxAYT3N8&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result 

The portion relevant here is the excerpt from the bottom of page 322 and page 323.  Note especially the 1971 comments by Santa Fe President John Reed about minority employment by railroads on pg. 323.

* - I found some other information by searching for various combinations of "Navajo" (or "navaho", surprisingly enough), and either "steel gang" (not much), or "track gang", or "rail gang".  I'll post the best of that in the next few days (I'm in the middle of a house move right now ! - this is a fun diversion, compared to that).

- Paul North.

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Ft. Worth
  • 3 posts
Posted by jrandyroyse on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:33 PM

Back in 1978, while on the Extra board for clerks on the old Northern Division out of Ft Worth, I got an assignment for a 3 week gig in Stephenville as relief agent.  Since it was out of sharvest eason, I knew something was up.....

 

Got to the depot very early on Monday morning and the Trainmaster (Mr. Reynolds) from Brownwood was sitting in my chair.  Now I know something is up for sure.  I casually ask him what's going on, and he replys "Didn't they tell you?  The Steel gang is coming through town this week....."

 

Oh boy, no wonder the regular guy took off.  Lot's of work!  It was a blast to watch them come through, however, I worked a couple of summers on the MW side and I appreciated the way the could put down steel.  The radio talk was a hoot, for sure.  Talking in English, replies in Navajo (sic), you couldn't keep track.  No trains to run, but a thousand wires, slow orders, and correspondence to take care off.  All 12 hours days, and no overnight trips to my lovely wife in Ft Worth.......

 

Got in two pay periods, as well.  Handed out almost 200 checks both times, had to verify last 4 SSN as there were 87 Yazzie's, etc.......

 

But it certainly was a class group of people, no problems with the locals, or anything.  It was fun, but I sure was glad when they passed on to the next station (Dublin, with another extra board agent in charge!).....

 

J. R. Royse, AT&SF all the way....

J. R. Royse AT&SF all the way
  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 1,754 posts
Posted by diningcar on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 1:33 PM

Mr. North has called attention to what in my judgement is the most complete history of the Santa Fe. Mr Bryant, a history professor, was given access to many internal documents which had here-to-fore been overlooked or never found.

The late Santa Fe President Reed was an ardent RR fan who had top keep his "hobby" somewhat hidden as he performed his executive duties. He was very forthcoming in allowing Mr. Bryant the access he needed.

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Allentown, PA
  • 9,810 posts
Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 5:32 PM
 diningcar wrote:
Mr. North has called attention to what in my judgement is the most complete history of the Santa Fe. Mr Bryant, a history professor, was given access to many internal documents which had here-to-fore been overlooked or never found.

The late Santa Fe President Reed was an ardent RR fan who had top keep his "hobby" somewhat hidden as he performed his executive duties. He was very forthcoming in allowing Mr. Bryant the access he needed.

Hey, thanks, diningcar.  For what it's worth, then, you - and others similarly inclined - might be interested in something else I saw on that Google Books page while running this down - "Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway Records: A Guide", to one of the "Special Collections" at the University of Texas - Arlington Library, at:

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/utarl/00004/arl-00004.htm

Notably, these documents were reportedly found in and recovered from the Fort Worth, Texas Santa Fe freight depot by a clean-out company guy, who recognized their value and arranged for them to be donated to a local (Tarrant County) historical society, as more fully set forth in the Guide.

- Paul North.

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
  • Member since
    August 2007
  • 1 posts
Posted by Lecompton on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 7:37 PM
  Most likely the reference was to the major track laying and repair crews the Santa Fe used for projects beyond the capabilities of the normal section gangs.  These major crews or gangs moved throughout the system and lived in dormitory cars [read as converted box cars no longer adequate for revenue service].  Prior to WWII many of these workers were Mexican nationals.  For several decades after that [until machines reduced the need for such a large number of laborers] the Santa Fe had good success with using Navajo Indians taken directly from the reservations. 
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Denver / La Junta
  • 10,820 posts
Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:37 PM
J R / Randy: Dale Reynolds? (Later the terminal Supt. at LA?)
Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Allentown, PA
  • 9,810 posts
Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Sunday, October 14, 2018 11:45 AM

Search Google Images for "navajo railroad workers". 

Also found these (among others) using the same search terms: 

Men of steel: Documentary tells story of Navajo railroad workers

(Source: Albuquerque Journal, June 23, 2017) 

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. — A new documentary titled “Metal Road” highlights the thousands of Navajos who for decades have worked the railroads, maintaining the trans-continental network. It explores the dynamics of livelihood, family and the railroads through the lens of a Navajo trackman, and it follows three Navajo railroaders from New Mexico as they leave their homeland to replace aging railroad tracks from the Mississippi River to the Pacific Ocean under extreme weather conditions. 

https://www.ble-t.org/pr/news/headline.asp?id=47060 

https://www.abqjournal.com/1022333/men-of-steel.html 

http://newlaborforum.cuny.edu/2012/01/30/working-on-the-railroad-walking-in-beauty-the-voices-of-navajo-railroad-workers/ 

When I was in Phoenix in January 2017, I saw a recent (2015?) book, (poorly) written by a lawyer who did a lot of work for the Navajos, including worker's comp.  But it did provide some insight to the culture.  I can't find the reference at the moment, but when I do I'll post it here.  

- PDN. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: South Central,Ks
  • 7,170 posts
Posted by samfp1943 on Sunday, October 14, 2018 2:43 PM

Paul_D_North_Jr wrote the following post 10 years ago[quoted,in part!]:

"...Hey, thanks, diningcar.  For what it's worth, then, you - and others similarly inclined - might be interested in something else I saw on that Google Books page while running this down - "Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway Records: A Guide", to one of the "Special Collections" at the University of Texas - Arlington Library, at:

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/utarl/00004/arl-00004.htm

Notably, these documents were reportedly found in and recovered from the Fort Worth, Texas Santa Fe freight depot by a clean-out company guy, who recognized their value and arranged for them to be donated to a local (Tarrant County) historical society, as more fully set forth in the Guide.."

- Paul North.

*10/14/2018*

To pass along an update of locations for reserarch on the AT&SF RR!

The Kansas Historical Society's Library, and Archives are the repository for Santa Fe Railroad's Business records,papers and photographs. Starting in 1859 to 1995. Much information is available on-line, and certainly, with a visit to their Facility and Museum in Topeka. 

Linked here is a sample of what they have @ https://www.kshs.org/p/railroad-research/15983

A Google Search of Kansas Historical Society/archives of Santa Fe RRIs ?

The above is a gateway to many more topical links  for Santa Fe RR research.

 

 


 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Denver / La Junta
  • 10,820 posts
Posted by mudchicken on Sunday, October 14, 2018 4:18 PM

Sam: considering they indexed and cataloged almost all of the ATSF records without an index, the feat is even more impressive. Just wish a decent map and records on the Brookside Branch was in there for one surveyor I know over here.)

(and at least the ATSF records survived intactThumbs Up. The same cannot be said for some of the Rock Island records due to some truly awful decisions by curators in Iowa City and Chicago.Thumbs Down)

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: South Central,Ks
  • 7,170 posts
Posted by samfp1943 on Sunday, October 14, 2018 9:43 PM

M.C.      A couple of years back I was up there doing sme research on railroads in the Neosho County,Ks. area [was on the original Eastern branch of the Santa Fe- Chanute  to Frontenac, and then down to Joplin (via Trackage on KCS ).  The line hosted one of the larger area oil refineries at the time[Great Western ]1900's to 1920's, and also was a source of locomotive coal from the mines in Bourbon and Cherokee and Crawford counties.

They did have quite a collection of maps there as well. The librarians were very helpful.

This was the first route of one of the original Santa Fe McKeen Cars Chanute to Pittsburg,Ks.[M-101] early in the 1900's.   Chanute, back then, was Div. Pt. for 5 radiating Santa Fe Branches.

 

 


 

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 1,754 posts
Posted by diningcar on Monday, October 15, 2018 6:55 AM

Many documents, maps and general info about the Santa Fe are now deposited with the Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society at Temple,Texas. There is an archivist available to assist and they can be found at:

www.sfrhms.org

Ask about the 'Santa Fe Splinters' which contains significant info about the creation of the Santa Fe System.

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy