kgbw49 Does a double-diesel with containers stacked on a flatcar count? https://www.railpictures.net/photo/402291/ Of course not but it is the only photo of a DDA40X I could find pulling some containers. But wait, is that an APL doublestacked container poking out over that last Fast 40 headed by a DDA40X on the point? https://www.railpictures.net/photo/473622/
Does a double-diesel with containers stacked on a flatcar count?
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/402291/
Of course not but it is the only photo of a DDA40X I could find pulling some containers.
But wait, is that an APL doublestacked container poking out over that last Fast 40 headed by a DDA40X on the point?
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/473622/
Your first pic would be no. However APL's orignal liner trains started in 1979 using 89' flats typically with 2x 40' containers.
Your second posted pic is a container riding on its chassis TOFC style.
The genesis of APL stack service launched in March of 1984. The first lane was Los Angeles-Chicago via Union Pacific/CNW the trains ended there. Conrail which was the eastern interchange partner could only single stack east of Chicago due to clearance issues on the Chemical Coast in Kearny, NJ. Once Conrail finished up some clearance projects direct interchange took place.
Those were some good days. Having dinner at the Old Spaghetti Factory in the former Western Pacific Sacramento depot and watching APL double stacks roll by as I enjoyed my penne pasta, heading from the Port of Oakland to points east via Feather River Canyon, pulled by sparkling new Dash 8-40C and SD-60 locomotives.
The 20 pages of feature coverage on the early years of doublestacks in the July 1987 CTC Board provided a detailed account of the marine carriers, rail routes, and rail operations involved, and how each of the service lanes came into being. Copies can still be found for a few bucks online.
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/GFsAAOSw4GVYQduL/s-l1600.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.ebay.com/itm/371804584833&h=1200&w=1600&tbnid=ZmnaUiOvPQajkM&q=July+1987+CTC+Board&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&usg=AI4_-kT9JkNkQrtloISzWjTtpSwjxyET6Q&vet=1&docid=W8i-qQvz5KMLMM&itg=1&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiNxJC5zuj6AhXfMTQIHX4nCVMQ9QF6BAgKEAY
timz SD60MAC9500 They placed a dinner table set in a container. Then filled some glasses with water. None of the water spilled the entire trip. Entire trip? Probably that doesn't mean they put a table in the container, on its legs, and put filled glasses on the table, and closed the container and trucked it to the train, and put it on the train, and took it off the train and trucked it somewhere and then opened it to find full glasses. What do you suppose they actually did?
SD60MAC9500 They placed a dinner table set in a container. Then filled some glasses with water. None of the water spilled the entire trip.
Entire trip? Probably that doesn't mean they put a table in the container, on its legs, and put filled glasses on the table, and closed the container and trucked it to the train, and put it on the train, and took it off the train and trucked it somewhere and then opened it to find full glasses. What do you suppose they actually did?
It was for the rail portion of the trip. Not the dray. Yes they did put the table set on its legs.. APL used its own equipment. When they started up their stack-service. Thrall had developed a new 5-pack based off the old Budd Lo-Pac. It was devoid of bulkheads. They also reduced the coupler slack from 15" to 3". So I'm assuming they put the dinner table set in an empty container that was grounded. Once it was placed on top of the other container in the well car. Probably some sort of lift to get someone up high into the top stack and place glasses on the table and fill with water.
UPDATE: A former APL employee who setup this marketing stunt. Has confirmed there's was no water used. The table was just a regular conference room table with a china and crystal setup to demonstrate. None of the china or crystal was broken during transit.
False back wall of container with a person with a water bottle who drained the glasses after they closed the doors and then refilled them when they got to the other side.
SD60MAC9500They placed a dinner table set in a container. Then filled some glasses with water. None of the water spilled the entire trip.
David1005 The first double stack in my mind was the ACF bulkhead cars built for SP. But things were slow to get going. Then APL, John Gray at WP, and Budd Engineering came up with the first well double stack car without the bulkheads. They depended on the IBC to hold the upper containers on. Those cars were built by Thrall. The early work on these cars was started in 1982. I think the car numbers started with 2000, but I do not recall the reporting marks. It may have been APL. They were painted blue. The problem with early double stack was they were trying to keep the height under 18'. The containers were getting taller, nobody wanted the 8 foot high box anymore. You could not get a fork lift into it. The success of double stack was the willingness of a few railroads to invest big money into opening clearances up so 8' 6" and 9' containers could be handled. Once this happened the importance of double stack became clear and other railroads followed.
The first double stack in my mind was the ACF bulkhead cars built for SP. But things were slow to get going. Then APL, John Gray at WP, and Budd Engineering came up with the first well double stack car without the bulkheads. They depended on the IBC to hold the upper containers on. Those cars were built by Thrall. The early work on these cars was started in 1982. I think the car numbers started with 2000, but I do not recall the reporting marks. It may have been APL. They were painted blue. The problem with early double stack was they were trying to keep the height under 18'. The containers were getting taller, nobody wanted the 8 foot high box anymore. You could not get a fork lift into it.
The success of double stack was the willingness of a few railroads to invest big money into opening clearances up so 8' 6" and 9' containers could be handled. Once this happened the importance of double stack became clear and other railroads followed.
Yes the SP well cars were the first. However one main issue is that early doublestack cars were not approved for AAR interchange. Which confined them to a single railroad. The AAR would eventually approve the cars once they met interchange requirements. That was an early impediment to expand the network. SP moved the first doublestack services in 1981 for SeaLand. In what's called a Mini Land Bridge,(Or commonly called today IPI Inland Point Intermodal)a port-train-inland service. As opposed to Landbridge which is; vessel-port-train-port-vessel. This service was Port of Long Beach-Port of Houston. It was not a dedicated train it typically moved in about a cut of 20 cars.
APL was the first to create a dedicated Stacktrain Service in March of 1984. APL put double-stacking in the spot light. SeaLand would follow on the heels of APL, and develop its first dedicated stack train service in 1985. The economies over TOFC and single COFC couldn't be denied. You'll notice Santa Fe was a hold out for many years, and one of the reasons it had a difficult time making its IM profitable. Santa Fe didn't want to relinquish pricing power from what I understand.
I'm just kind of surprised that someone would automatically attribute Malcom McLean to double-stacking?.. Which the idea actually came from Southern Pacific and Robert Ingram of SeaLand.
Since the idea was birthed for western roads. Due to short sidings on certain routes. Double-stacking was able to maximize tonnage within a given length. Hence why it was so attractive. However its maximization of train space and far better qualities than TOFC would go beyond the issue of siding length.
I'll relay a story about how good the APL stack serivce was. They placed a dinner table set in a container. Then filled some glasses with water. None of the water spilled the entire trip. Now was it a marketing stunt? Sure However it proved the superior riding characteristics of articulated double-stack equipment. Nan Hutchins who worked at APL land operations during the development of their stack-train service. Had this to say about it.
DSchmitt From wikipedia "Southern Pacific Railroad (SP), along with Malcom McLean, came up with the idea of the first double-stack intermodal car in 1977.[1][2] SP then designed the first car with ACF Industries that same year.[3][4] At first it was slow to become an industry standard, then in 1984 American President Lines, started working with the SP and that same year, the first all "double stack" train left Los Angeles, California for South Kearny, New Jersey, under the name of "Stacktrain" rail service. Along the way the train transfered from the SP to Conrail." ----------------------------------------------------------------- at the State Railroad Museum in Sacramento, CA: "Southern Pacific No. 513300 American Car & Foundry 1977 Double StackPrototype SP double-stack car. Gift 3/1994 of SP."
From wikipedia
"Southern Pacific Railroad (SP), along with Malcom McLean, came up with the idea of the first double-stack intermodal car in 1977.[1][2] SP then designed the first car with ACF Industries that same year.[3][4] At first it was slow to become an industry standard, then in 1984 American President Lines, started working with the SP and that same year, the first all "double stack" train left Los Angeles, California for South Kearny, New Jersey, under the name of "Stacktrain" rail service. Along the way the train transfered from the SP to Conrail."
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at the State Railroad Museum in Sacramento, CA:
"Southern Pacific No. 513300 American Car & Foundry 1977 Double StackPrototype SP double-stack car. Gift 3/1994 of SP."
It looks like wikipedia may just have it wrong... Malcom McLean did not develop the well car, or double-stacks with SP. One he had sold SeaLand in 1969 which would be the beneficiary of said service.. Two he would have no input over SeaLand or its operations in 1977 the year the double-stack car debuted. Also take note the first contianers to be utilized were containers leased from XTRA to Southern Pacific.
In 1977 Maclcom McLean was starting his transaction to acquire US Lines. Highly doubt his input would be diverted away from a pending acquisition..
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
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Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/spcars/byclass/flat/f070-81.htm
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/spcars/byclass/flat/fc195-01.htm
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/spcars/byclass/flat/fc270-01.htm
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
My nomination: Santa Fe "A" Stacks 1981 (Fiberglass and Aluminum containers designed to ride lower on a spine car instead of a tub/ well car)
http://www.barstowrailmuseum.org/aframe.html
The first APL double-stack test train ran on July 20, 1983, on SP and BN between LA and Chicago. I'd guess it interchanged in KC, and certainly did not go through LaCrosse.
SP began running double-stacks between LA and Houston in 1981.
There is a picture in a Trains magazine during the 1970s showing a CN drop center flatcar holding a 20' box over each truck, and 4 more 20' boxes double-stacked between them, for a total of 6.
The first thing I noticed is that the date is 1/1/83. But the picture has too much green in trees and grass to be Wisconsin on a New Year's Day. So date is very suspicious even if it is 1983!
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Were the first double stack container cars put into service in the early or mid-1980s? From what I've heard, the 40' container cars with bulkheads on their ends and labeled "Twin Stack" were introduced in 1985 or 86. However, this photo of BN locos hauling a double-stack intermodal in WI is dated 1983, which seems too early?
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=153327
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