Sunset Route Two-Tracking Updates

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Posted by ccltrains on Tuesday, March 27, 2018 6:55 PM

Mac

We both are correct.  The government surveyed several routes over the mountains.  The railroad, not the government, selected the Kicking Hourse route to keep the American lines out of Canada.  I think my idea of the government demanded the K H pass route came from the book Van Horne's Road.  Unfortunately I cannot locate my copy to verify or shoot down my statement.  CP later built the Kettle line which is closer to the 49th parallel but this was built to tap the mining areas. Van Horne came in board just before construction started in K H line.  He built most of the mountain line and was present at the final spike ceremony at Craigallie (sp?).  Drove the Trans Canada highway several times with great views of the line.  Rode the Rocky Mountaineer train over K H which was great.

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Posted by M636C on Tuesday, March 27, 2018 8:47 PM

ccltrains

Mac

We both are correct.  The government surveyed several routes over the mountains.  The railroad, not the government, selected the Kicking Hourse route to keep the American lines out of Canada.  I think my idea of the government demanded the K H pass route came from the book Van Horne's Road.  Unfortunately I cannot locate my copy to verify or shoot down my statement.  CP later built the Kettle line which is closer to the 49th parallel but this was built to tap the mining areas. Van Horne came in board just before construction started in K H line.  He built most of the mountain line and was present at the final spike ceremony at Craigallie (sp?).  Drove the Trans Canada highway several times with great views of the line.  Rode the Rocky Mountaineer train over K H which was great.

 
 
 
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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Wednesday, March 28, 2018 8:16 AM

PNWRMNM (3-26):

There is NO discernable pattern to the Intermodal trains between Los Angeles and El Paso.  There are three different routes east of El Paso, each with its own sidings length specifications, so there are NO consistent patterns, including what is on the head-ends and DPU’s.

K.P.

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Posted by desertdog on Thursday, March 29, 2018 12:28 PM

Demolition of existing structures in the path of the SR347 UP overpass project in Maricopa has finally begun: http://www.inmaricopa.com/copa-center-razed-for-overpass-video/

Note the CB&Q observation car and the vintage SP water tower in the background. At approximately this location, there was originally a branch up to Phoenix along the same path as SR347. The construction of the Phoenix Sub ended its usefulness, although a few miles remain, stub-ended at an industrial park on tribal land in Chandler.

 

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Posted by mvs on Saturday, March 31, 2018 12:06 PM

Apologies if this has been posted --

Per the 2/2018 ACE meeting minutes, ribbon-cutting for the Puente Avenue grade separation will take place this Friday 4/6.

They must be close to completing that underpass?

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Tuesday, April 03, 2018 12:29 PM

Situation Comparison

In behalf of another thread K.P. drove way, way out in the desert, to Needles, CA, to get a true picture of a news situation.  Afterwards, he swung by Kelso out in that desert also, on the Los Angeles & Salt Lake (LA&SL) line, to check on a status situation there.  The forum may remember back in 2016 the old target signals were replaced with the new color light type, which included new CP boxes in conjunction with Positive Train Control.

In the photo above, at the west end of the Chase siding, the typical LA&SL new installation is seen, with a single lamp lower head for a red over flashing red indication to go into sidings.  We determined that UP used such on shorter sidings, like 6000 feet.  The Sunset Route sidings (Los Angeles-El Paso) are typically 8000 feet or more, hence, a red over yellow indication is most often used on the remaining single-track sections.

In that LA&SL signal conversion the old signals and CP boxes (dating back to 1942!) were collected together at Kelso, and were unfenced and out in the open for all to see.

K.P. on this visit close to two years later found all those old signals and boxes gone, presumably having been cannibalized of reusable parts and then discarded.  Everything had been by the historic, restored Kelso LA&SL depot.

Just thought the forum would be interested to know of this.

The LA&SL and the Sunset Route (western portion) are TWO routes UP has for Los Angeles-Chicago traffic.

About Change

Very recently there were major changes here at the forums, and the post counts have dropped off dramatically.

Unfortunately, K.P. was affected too, who had been leaning towards visiting the recent Sunset Route two-tracking west of Houston, TX, and wanted to get photos in the nearby Richmond area of that Sunset Route UP bridge over the Brazos River there that had become super unstable and sank downward a bit. (It has reportedly been repaired.). Furthermore, not too far away sort of midway between Houston and Dallas is the current construction of the new UP Brazos Classification Yard that may or may not have an impact on the Sunset Route.  Photos documenting that would be wonderful to have.  But …

The situation here at the forums has become unstable, with no guarantee the forums will even be around tomorrow, and could be eventually eliminated.  That happened with TRAINS’ sister magazine Astronomy.  Some may remember I posted some photos therein about the Mt. Palomar observatory up in the mountains not too far from Oceanside, CA, including interior shots of the huge 200-inch mirrored telescope.

Both April 28, 2010

On the top just above view, note the SMALL appearing door on the left.  That round building is huge!  The interior shot back then was taken because an observatory staffer invited me in, on the actual floor level, for some unknown reason.  What a gem of an opportunity!  But, all was for nothing because Astronomy Magazine eliminated their forums some months later.  All my effort and expense went down the tube.  Such makes an indelible impression on one’s consciousness.  So, with the recent development at TRAINS I need to rethink spending money in behalf of the forums, if nothing else because the forums may not be around tomorrow.  The whole current fiasco may have been a blessing in disguise, with time now on my side!  Regardless, plans are to visit the Yuma-Wellton, AZ area on the Sunset Route maybe in June or July (or August).  By then, with the passage of a little time, I should have a pretty good idea of what I want to spend my set aside money on … if I want to spend any at all …

The forum may be interested to know very recently a group (“group”) of different threads was posted in, and those posts were all held for approval.  Eventually, they were ALL approved … at the SAME time!  AT THE SAME TIME!  That strikes me as robo approvals … Is what happened at Astronomy coming next to the TRAINS forums?  Can everyone now see my skepticism about spending money on a Texas trip for the forum?  Should the Mrs. and I fly together to Hawaii instead? (We do that once and a while …)

A new development has arisen.  Forum contributor mvs indicated that the Workman Mill Road / Puente Ave. underpass is about to open in the Industry, CA area.  That underpass arrangement is quite a bit more extensive than most, and would be very worthwhile to photo-document.  When K.P. is able get out that way to photo document the underpass is unknown, though …

HOWEVER!

There have been some reports that Intermodal traffic is nose-diving, possibly because of the new tariffs and trade war activity among the nations as a result of President Trump’s actions.  Over that new underpass reported just above, K.P. wonders if Intermodal cars are now occupying that CTC Bassett siding, as they occasionally do.  Interesting, yesterday, K.P. was by the Phelan CTC siding on the Palmdale Cutoff (such cutoff wyes into the Sunset Route in the Colton area).  There was a bunch of engineless Intermodal well-cars in that siding!  But, he could not stop for photos, but did so today with plenty of time on his hands.

If a trade war is happening, that is very bad news for the UP railroad, and could make the lack of two-tracking (because of Positive Train Control) even more severe, and end any hope of two-tracking in 2019!  There are a lot of forces going every which way right now … Will the western Phoenix line suddenly have Intermodal cars from end to end on it?  To survive (“survive”) weird economic times, will TRAINS Magazine do away with the forums similar to what Astronomy Magazine did?

Take care all, and it is hoped everyone tries to have a good day in this very, very precarious time,

K.P.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by ccltrains on Tuesday, April 03, 2018 8:00 PM

Since not much is happening on the Sunset route here is a comment on the other side of the world.  Recently our “beloved leader” Kim Jung Un  went to Beijing on a green and yellow armored train.  Does anyone have any pictures or information on this train?  Several years ago Un’s father went to Moscow on the yellow and green armored train.  Both China and North Korea have standard gauge rail lines but Russia is wider, about 5’.  Does anyone know where and how the trucks were changed for the gauge change?

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, April 03, 2018 9:34 PM

K.P. Harrier-- Another good rule of life is, unfortunately, 'People will always let you down',...you need to think of the Mrs. and yourself. Hawaii sounds pretty darn good. Hopefully the Forum is still around when you get back. Of course I don't have to tell you those things, it's just to let you know some are listening. 

I would like to think Kalmbach would be thoughtful and classy enough to give us a fair heads up if the Forums are going to be discontinued, but perhaps not and just chop chop it's gone. 

Some warning would at least give us some time to exchange emails with other members or perhaps have some rally point where we can fiqure out how to proceed. 

Have no idea of the costs involved in providing these Forums on Trains and Classic.

Was the Forum on Astronomy just discontinued 'like that',  no warning?Believe you stated that was the case. Was there a lot of participation, lots of posters and subjects, somewhat like on here? 

Out of our control in any case, but we should be prepared well if the worst happens.

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, April 03, 2018 10:14 PM

Miningman
...or perhaps have some rally point where we can fiqure out how to proceed. 

There are other fora - and many are on them already.  Just a matter of finding a central home, if that's the desire.

For  that matter, it's not that hard to create a "members only" FB page.  I'm on several.

 

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, April 03, 2018 11:49 PM

Your going to lose a lot of the senior folks with a Facebook page...they won't do it. Data mining where you are the commodity, not the customer/consumer. They know the difference. 

Well lets hope that does not happen. I have the private emails of 4 of the members. That would at least get me pointed in the right direction if it all came apart. 

By the way I think Kalmbach does an outstanding service here despite the whining and complaining, so thanks guys and gals.

However, as good as the Trains Forum is, the Classic Forum got ya beat!

 

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Posted by ccltrains on Wednesday, April 04, 2018 6:39 AM

There is a third route from LA to Chicago but it is the scenic route.  This would be going north through the San Jouquin valley to Sacramento then on the Central Pacific/D&RGW east finally getting to Chicago. Much longer and slower and I doubt if any LA-Chicage traffic goes that way.

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Posted by M636C on Wednesday, April 04, 2018 7:06 AM

ccltrains

Since not much is happening on the Sunset route here is a comment on the other side of the world.  Recently our “beloved leader” Kim Jung Un  went to Beijing on a green and yellow armored train.  Does anyone have any pictures or information on this train?  Several years ago Un’s father went to Moscow on the yellow and green armored train.  Both China and North Korea have standard gauge rail lines but Russia is wider, about 5’.  Does anyone know where and how the trucks were changed for the gauge change?

 

The locomotives seen in the video are Chinese type DF11z, one of them being DF11z 0001. The DF11z has a 16V280Z four stroke engine developing about 4800HP in each of the two units.

In North Korea itself, there are different types of locomotives and I don't know if any are dedicated to Kim's train.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_stock_of_the_Korean_State_Railway#Diesel_Locomotive_Classes

At the change of gauge stations, regular passenger trains are jacked up one car at a time and the trucks are changed out for the gauge to which the train is moving.

This occurs regularly between China and Mongolia, through which Chinese trains usually travel towards Russia. I expect that the same equipment is used between North Korea and Russia, although there are no regular through passenger trains to my knowledge. There may be freight trains between Russia and North Korea but but I have no information on that.

I would expect that Kim has a set of Russian gauge trucks for his train held at the border. I expect that these would be kept secure to avoid any technical or other problems.

A trip to Russia might be made via China and Mongolia depending on the destination.

Peter

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Posted by Fred M Cain on Thursday, April 05, 2018 11:54 AM

INTERMODAL NOSEDIVING

K.P.,

Uh, well, maybe not or at least I'm confused.  Progressive rail reports that carloadings were up 5% in March with intermodal up a whopping 6.5%.  So, if loads are nosediving it must be a very recent development.

 

https://www.progressiverailroading.com/rail_industry_trends/news/US-rail-traffic-up-5-percent-in-March--54354?email=fredmcain2003@yahoo.com&utm_medium=email&utm_source=prdailynews&utm_campaign=prdailynews4/5/2018

 

Regards,

Fred M. Cain

 

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, April 05, 2018 1:10 PM

Fred M. Cain (4-5):

It just happened.

Trump instigated severe tariffs, and predictably foreign government’s retaliated.  At this point, that is basically all I know of it. 

My (“my”) interpretation of those well cars in the siding hasn’t been confirmed by sources, but that siding is a key one on the line, and with it blocked that line goes 26 miles without a place to meet.  I personally haven’t seen sidings on that line blocked for years, in less good economic times.

Eventually, a source will come through on this.

K.P.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, April 05, 2018 5:36 PM

None of those tariffs are in effect yet...only a threat and they are in negotiations. The clock is ticking though.

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Posted by rdamon on Thursday, April 05, 2018 7:16 PM

Doesn't this seem to happen every year?  I think before UP stored all those locomotives in AZ they either autoracks or well cars stored.

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Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Thursday, April 05, 2018 9:05 PM

rdamon

Doesn't this seem to happen every year?  I think before UP stored all those locomotives in AZ they either autoracks or well cars stored.

Once in a while, one can drive CAL-99 between Bakersfield and Modesto and see strings of empty well cars sitting in UP sidings probably north of Fresno, if memory serves.  It has been mercifully more than a year now since I've made that drive so something else might be going on this year.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 8:18 AM

Out and About … Tuesday, April 10, 2018

City of Industry, CA

After a timely dispatch to Fontana (CA), the future, under construction grade separation at Fairway Drive on the LA&SL line was went to.  NO stopping spot was found for photos.  The whole area was tore up, with the businesses to the south basically closed and piles of dirt in parking lots.  Southeast of the grade crossing were huge, I believe orange fitting pipes.  Then K.P. went west.  Returning a couple of hours later, the southwest side of the grade crossing had a SLANTED concrete forming of some sort, of an unusual height, as if the tracks will halfway rise while Fairway Drive will halfway lower.

That southwest side new SLANTING concrete construction resembled (“resembled”) the slanting construction of the center roadway construction for the south Milliken Ave. LA&SL-Mission Blvd. overpass in Ontario a few years ago (photo right).

November 19, 2015

The finished southern Milliken Ave. overpass, with a slanting downward roadway of that concrete-work:

March 13, 2017

Back at Fairway Drive again, the slanting concrete apparently with be for the rising tracks.

On rare occasions, K.P. has a passenger (or is a passenger) on dispatches.  If such occurs anytime soon, he will try to visit that Fairway Drive grade separation construction and attempt a few photos from the auto’s passenger seat.  But such is unlikely in the immediate future.

In a few days photos will be shown to the forum of the finished underpass going under the SP Sunset Route at Workman Mill Road / Puente Ave. at Valley Blvd. that mvs had alerted us to.  A visit was made also to the very nearby ‘Up and Over’ with NO evidence that the short distance of two-tracking there will be finished anytime soon.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Wednesday, April 11, 2018 12:50 PM

This is one addess I see when I click on your photo icon,

https://s26.postimg.org/gc6b8p51l/DSC_4963-_M.jpg

And this is message displayed,

This site can’t be reached

s26.postimg.org’s server DNS address could not be found.

 

 

DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN
then i went to another widow and put in that url and miracles happen and i see the image. 
And after posting this, I exit out and now the images show in your otiginal post. As Yul Bryner said "Tis a Puzzlement"
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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, April 12, 2018 9:24 AM

A New Underpass is Open and …

… Interpreting Strange Things 

The new Workman Mill Road-Puente Ave. roadway underpass under the SP Sunset Route track(s) and the paralleling Valley Blvd., which new underpass is most closely associated with the unincorporated community of Bassett (south) and the City of Industry (north) was visited Tuesday, April 10, 2018.

K.P. had worked-up seven posts (Parts A-G) of underpass related photos, a whole wealth of new things and matters of special interest.  Even an interpretation of the never activated seven years old signals atop the nearby “Up and Over” flyover was dealt with.  Then, and it likely was just a total coincidence, but besides the forum odd things taking place forumist Electroliner 1935 reported strange things involving already posted photos!  K.P. checked it out and discovered his service for hosting photos apparently somehow got caught using an unauthorized web extension, and all his photos of late for the forum were address relinked.  It would take too much time to change all those posts PLUS K.P. cannot now edit posts anyway.  So, with the photobucket.com and TRAINS fiascos, this latest waste of time was the last straw.

However, K.P. believes he has found a way to use those relinked postimage (postimg) photos, and may do just that in the days to come … if he can deal with this chronically malfunctioning posting site ...

Nevertheless, K.P. now plans on sitting back, being less active this thread-wise, and seeing what develops …

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by kgbw49 on Thursday, April 12, 2018 5:16 PM

K.P., I don’t know if you are a sports follower or not, but for a comparison, for this thread you have been like the 1950s Yankees or the 1960s Celtics or the 1960s Packers - a true champion dynasty of excellence year in and year out. No matter what the future brings, thank you for sharing your expertise and exploration efforts these past 10 years. We are all the richer for it! Sincerest thanks!

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Posted by MikeF90 on Friday, April 13, 2018 3:47 PM

K. P. Harrier
K.P. checked it out and discovered his service for hosting photos apparently somehow got caught using an unauthorized web extension, and all his photos of late for the forum were address relinked.

Translation: the postimage.org domain was taken down by the registrar for unknown reasons (I suspect non-payment of renewal fees).  Very frustrating.

Google Map links ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon

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Posted by rdamon on Friday, April 13, 2018 4:08 PM

Message on postimage.org ... Funny .. whois says it expires on 7/28/2020 ...  must have been hosting some improper images. Also funny that postimage.org works.

postimg.ORG domain is locked by Registry, no prior notice.

While we hope to resolve the issue, we chose postimg.CC as our new home.
Please update codes embedded in your websites.

 

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Posted by tree68 on Friday, April 13, 2018 4:36 PM

rdamon
...whois says it expires on 7/28/2020...

I own two domains which I believe are still valid, but due to mix-ups on the billing, neither will get you anywhere.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by ed375 on Monday, April 16, 2018 8:00 PM

I have been following this series, with interest, from central Illinois.

I note that the Trains weekly email seems to come later than it used to, and has not yet arrived today. Also the Trains picture of the day is often running for several consecutive days. An example "Mac in the Mist" was picture of the day from Feb 15th through Feb 26th.

I will be greatly disappointed if Kalmbach deletes these forums!

 

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 6:00 AM

Situation Update as of Tuesday, April 10, 2018

A New Grade Separation Opens and …

… 1.7 Miles of Future Two-Tracking

Part “A” (of A-H)

The Puente Ave. Underpass

City of Industry, CA

At the northwest-southeast Valley Blvd. roadway southwest of the SP Sunset Route track(s) is the Los Angeles County unincorporated community of Basset.  Northeast of Valley Blvd. is the City of Industry, with the Southern Pacific track(s) technically in the City of Industry.  At Valley Blvd. Puente Ave. southwestwardly becomes Workman Mill Road.  That intersection has been a very congested location for years.

An underpass was very recently completed on Workman Mill Road / Puente Ave., eliminated a congested grade crossing / roadway intersection. 

As seen just above, now that cars don’t have to stop for a long time at the said intersection, the northeast-southwest roadway almost seems baron.

A strange construction on the northeast side of the railroad bridge is a concrete bridging of some sort (top, center left).

K.P. believes unofficially that cement bridging may encase a pipeline, protecting it instead of the typical exposed piping alongside numerous tracks.

Continued in Part B

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 6:06 AM

Situation Update as of Tuesday, April 10, 2018

A New Grade Separation Opens and …

… 1.7 Miles of Future Two-Tracking

Part “B” (of A-H)

The Puente Ave. Underpass

City of Industry, CA

Underneath, looking eastbound:

There is room, and supports for, another track.  The signal is the east end of the Bassett siding.

Valley Blvd. bridging is on the right.

A NUMBER OF OVERPASSES in recent years on both the SP and L&SL from Pomona to Los Angeles have had these types of structural supports for an additional track.  It has to be wondered why?  It may be as a contingency so extra bridging could be put up without having to modify the cement-work.

Continued in Part C

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 6:12 AM

Situation Update as of Tuesday, April 10, 2018

A New Grade Separation Opens and …

… 1.7 Miles of Future Two-Tracking

Part “C” (of A-H)

The Puente Ave. Underpass

City of Industry, CA

A view from the southwest side looking northeast with the McDonald’s fast food sign visible:

Strange concrete-work:

Steps allow for convenient access to Valley Blvd. (the bridge).

Continued in Part D

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 6:20 AM

Situation Update as of Tuesday, April 10, 2018

A New Grade Separation Opens and …

… 1.7 Miles of Future Two-Tracking

Part “D” (of A-H)

The Puente Ave. Underpass

City of Industry, CA

At Valley Blvd.:

Above, note the east end of the Bassett siding’s signals.

That believed to be a pipeline incased in concrete bridging:

Continued in Part E

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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Posted by K. P. Harrier on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 6:28 AM

Situation Update as of Tuesday, April 10, 2018

A New Grade Separation Opens and …

… 1.7 Miles of Future Two-Tracking

Part “E” (of A-H)

A Different Angle

City of Industry, CA

Westbound a few blocks, at Vineland Ave., a westbound view.  The Metrolink tracks are on the right.  A bunch of Intermodal well-cars were in the SP Bassett siding.

Looking eastbound, the ‘Up and Over’ bridging is seen in the background, with the trackless second track’s alignment on the right.

Above, where the new underpass is at is seen on the fencing on the far left

Those Intermodal wells and the ‘Up and Over.’

At the top of the background ‘Up and Over,’ note the un-activated signals.

Continued in Part F

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.

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