UNION PACIFIC 8080 [ ALCO PA/ GN Electric] Coal Turbine Engine

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UNION PACIFIC 8080 [ ALCO PA/ GN Electric] Coal Turbine Engine
Posted by samfp1943 on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 4:34 PM

In the FORUM topic- "Mining Boneyards".    There was a discussion about various electrified Western Railroad operatons.  Mention was made that a Great Northern W-1 Electric Locomotive was sold to the Union Pacific to be used to create a coal[dust] fired turbine locomotive #8080.   

  Nanaimo 73 posted a link to a picture of the control end of this engine: 

Here is a picture of the PA 8080-
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=115586

 

 

Someone else mentioned that the former GN electric was used as the tenderQuestion [?], and another mentioned that the tender used was from a 4800 Class "Big Boy." 

In the late 1950's the N&W produced their version of a coal fired turbine, the "JAWN Henry." It was known as-- its engine number escapes me at this time.    At approximately the same time period the Chesapeake and Ohio fielded a coal fired turbine of their own; both the N&W's and C&O's did not last too long, the C&O's went away rather more quickly that the N&W's.

 To many of us fans, the existance of this Union Pacific coal turbine was lost in the success of their fleet of GE powered Turbines, the 'Big Blows';  which ran out West, and lasted quite a few years, morphing through a number of versions and body styles.

Can anyone provide any more pictures of this coal turbine- UP#8080 [or #80].

   Any anecdotes, photos would also be interesting as well.

Thanks. 

Sam

 

 


 

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 5:57 PM

That coal was turned into dust which burned very well but ate the turbine blades very much.

Maybe today we can build turbine blades that are impervious to abrasive coal dust being burned.

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Posted by Gandy Dancer on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 6:40 PM
The GN W1 went to its fate way before its time.  It was almost "new" in electric locomotive terms when taken out of service.
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Posted by JayPotter on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 6:47 PM

The Fall 2004 issue of CLASSIC TRAINS contains an Eric Hirsimaki article on turbines that discusses this locomotive.

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Posted by csmith9474 on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 8:38 PM

This write up has some good info on the coal turbine. Just scroll down on the link until you find it.... http://utahrails.net/up/up-diesel-story-1934-1982-c.php

Pics...

http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/up80.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Turbine80.jpg

 

Smitty
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Posted by nanaimo73 on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 1:15 AM
I wonder what Lord Atmo this of this beast-
http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/up80.jpg 
Dale
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Posted by samfp1943 on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:51 AM

 nanaimo73 wrote:
I wonder what Lord Atmo this of this beast-
http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/up80.jpg 

My thanks to Jay, Smitty and Dale: I figured that somebody could put some info on this beastie out to the Forum..

  The photo of the full three unit locomotive is amazing, I would guess well over three hundred feet in length...It kind of reminds me of a line from a Bill Mauldin WWII eara cartoon of Wille and Joe standing in the mud and reviewing the blanket wrapped footprints OF OTHER GI's in the same mud of an Italian winter, and commenting.."GAWD, WHAT A MONSTER!"

Thanks, again!

Sam

 

 


 

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Posted by tdmidget on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 9:05 AM
 Jawn Henry and his C&O cousin were however, steam turbines. UP 8080 was a gas turbine. Very different animals.

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Posted by csmith9474 on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 9:13 AM

 tdmidget wrote:
 Jawn Henry and his C&O cousin were however, steam turbines. UP 8080 was a gas turbine. Very different animals.

Wasn't C&O's turbine supposed to be power for their aborted passenger train "The Chessie". I am pretty sure that is what it was for anyhow. There were even several passenger cars built (if not a full consist). I think many of them went to the Rio Grande. Sorry to stray off topic......

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Posted by CAZEPHYR on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 2:39 PM
 samfp1943 wrote:

In the FORUM topic- "Mining Boneyards".    There was a discussion about various electrified Western Railroad operatons.  Mention was made that a Great Northern W-1 Electric Locomotive was sold to the Union Pacific to be used to create a coal[dust] fired turbine locomotive #8080.   

  Nanaimo 73 posted a link to a picture of the control end of this engine: 

Here is a picture of the PA 8080-
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=115586

 

 

Someone else mentioned that the former GN electric was used as the tenderQuestion [?], and another mentioned that the tender used was from a 4800 Class "Big Boy." 

In the late 1950's the N&W produced their version of a coal fired turbine, the "JAWN Henry." It was known as-- its engine number escapes me at this time.    At approximately the same time period the Chesapeake and Ohio fielded a coal fired turbine of their own; both the N&W's and C&O's did not last too long, the C&O's went away rather more quickly that the N&W's.

 To many of us fans, the existance of this Union Pacific coal turbine was lost in the success of their fleet of GE powered Turbines, the 'Big Blows';  which ran out West, and lasted quite a few years, morphing through a number of versions and body styles.

Can anyone provide any more pictures of this coal turbine- UP#8080 [or #80].

   Any anecdotes, photos would also be interesting as well.

Thanks. 

 The Union Pacific Coal Turbine was a failure due to the blades breaking.  Using fine ground coal to fire the turbine was like using sand paper to polish the paint on an automobile. 

When an official was asked what they sounded like, he said;  "They sounded much like a Gas Turbine except for the noise the blades made hitting the carbody".  

Cheers

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:43 PM

 tdmidget wrote:
 Jawn Henry and his C&O cousin were however, steam turbines. UP 8080 was a gas turbine. Very different animals.

That's correct.  There's a difference between a coal turbine and a coal-fired steam turbine.  Until someone invents a way to mass produce synthetic diamonds into indestructable turbine blades, burning coal directly into a turbine will eat the blades alive.

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Posted by Cederstrand on Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:21 AM

I wish I had an N scale replica of that triple set up. Whatever it's prototype's flaws were, that is one cool looking unit. Wish I had the time and engery to attempt kit-bashing THAT set. Thanks for posting those links.

Cowboy [C):-)] Rob

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Posted by samfp1943 on Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:24 AM

 tdmidget wrote:
 Jawn Henry and his C&O cousin were however, steam turbines. UP 8080 was a gas turbine. Very different animals.

"Very Different Animals." This is probably an understatement!   Apparently turbines were built not only in North America;   Europe had its share of various incarnations of turbine power as well. 

I found this web site while researching the PRR's S-1 #6200 which was a steam turbine- direct gear drive on a 6-8-6 wheel arrangement.       The turbine locomotive page also mentions the C&O's M-1s and indicates that it was a class of three locomotives, built by Baldwin for C&O.

here is the link: http://www.steamlocomotive.com/turbine/index.shtml

 

Sam

 

 


 

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Posted by Tulyar15 on Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:32 AM
 samfp1943 wrote:

"Very Different Animals." This is probably an understatement!   Apparently turbines were built not only in North America;   Europe had its share of various incarnations of turbine power as well. 


I believe a steam turbine loco is preserved in Sweden, in working order at their national railway museum. In Britain two Gas Turbines survived, Great Western #18000, which is just a shell, and the original Gas Turbine powered tilting Advanced Passenger Train which is now on display at the National Railway Museum's new outpost at Shildon, Co. Durham.
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, August 16, 2007 6:43 AM
 csmith9474 wrote:

 tdmidget wrote:
 Jawn Henry and his C&O cousin were however, steam turbines. UP 8080 was a gas turbine. Very different animals.

Wasn't C&O's turbine supposed to be power for their aborted passenger train "The Chessie". I am pretty sure that is what it was for anyhow. There were even several passenger cars built (if not a full consist). I think many of them went to the Rio Grande. Sorry to stray off topic......

The "Chessie" was a personal whim of Robert R. Young intended to showcase the modernization of C&O's passenger service.  Three complete trainsets (including motive power) plus a handful of spares were built to cover a proposed Washington-Cincinnati daylight train for which a market did not exist.  The passenger cars were sold to various railroads in North America and Argentina.  TRAINS had an excellent article about the whole thing in 1968 or 1969.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by csmith9474 on Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:55 AM
 CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:
 csmith9474 wrote:

 tdmidget wrote:
 Jawn Henry and his C&O cousin were however, steam turbines. UP 8080 was a gas turbine. Very different animals.

Wasn't C&O's turbine supposed to be power for their aborted passenger train "The Chessie". I am pretty sure that is what it was for anyhow. There were even several passenger cars built (if not a full consist). I think many of them went to the Rio Grande. Sorry to stray off topic......

The "Chessie" was a personal whim of Robert R. Young intended to showcase the modernization of C&O's passenger service.  Three complete trainsets (including motive power) plus a handful of spares were built to cover a proposed Washington-Cincinnati daylight train for which a market did not exist.  The passenger cars were sold to various railroads in North America and Argentina.  TRAINS had an excellent article about the whole thing in 1968 or 1969.

I appreciate the info. I will have to track that issue down. I think it would have been a good looking train, although they would have spent all the revenue generated keeping the turbine running.

I had considered modeling "The Chessie", but the turbine alone will cost me a small fortune.

I think that the Chessie's turbine was the best looking of all the turbines, although the UP's gas turbines and coal turbine looked more "brutish", so they are really awesome in their own right.

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Posted by samfp1943 on Thursday, August 16, 2007 5:28 PM
 Tulyar15 wrote:
 samfp1943 wrote:

 

"Very Different Animals." This is probably an understatement!   Apparently turbines were built not only in North America;   Europe had its share of various incarnations of turbine power as well. 



I believe a steam turbine loco is preserved in Sweden, in working order at their national railway museum. In Britain two Gas Turbines survived, Great Western #18000, which is just a shell, and the original Gas Turbine powered tilting Advanced Passenger Train which is now on display at the National Railway Museum's new outpost at Shildon, Co. Durham.

Tulyar15: Here is a  couple of links to the Swedish loco in the museum from a Wikipedia site and another style of turbine:

      wikipedia:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_turbine_locomotive#Switzerland

       this is another link to another Swedish designed Steam Turbine:

         http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/argturb/argturb.htm

Sam

 

 


 

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Posted by billlbeutler on Friday, August 17, 2007 6:44 PM
The UPHS had a good article in the Streamliner a couple of years ago with a lot of great pic's

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